2/25 Sanka! Ya Dead? GDT - Devils @ Red Wings - 7:30 PM ET

[TLGTrico 627]

There is an 18 point difference between La's current point total and our highest possible point total.  Which basically means giving up 19 points the rest of the way guarantees us best odds.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

CRL sorta convinced me that Babs may be our best bet behind the bench if any of  Gallant/Laviolette/Cooper (if the Bolts exit early) aren't available, or unwilling.

Looking at the Leafs - they're more inconsistent with Keefe (the guy the players, and Dubas want) behind the bench than Babs ever was.

Don't get me wrong - he's no saint, but I really want a harda$$ making sure these guys play like their paycheck demands of them.

Heres the thing about Babs. Hes probably a hard man to play for. And not very likable. But he squeezes the goods out of teams. He had no business being in the playoffs late with the wings but adapted to shutdown D and got them there. When players tried to get him fired Holland shut them down and made their lazy asses deal with the hard man.

All the same crap happened in Toronto but Dubas caved to his stars unlike Holland. Good luck with setting that precedent. Its not condusive to winning if you ask me. 

Babs would crack the whip on this mess of a team, and every single person here knows that would be a goid thing

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Heres the thing about Babs. Hes probably a hard man to play for. And not very likable. But he squeezes the goods out of teams. He had no business being in the playoffs late with the wings but adapted to shutdown D and got them there. When players tried to get him fired Holland shut them down and made their lazy asses deal with the hard man.

All the same crap happened in Toronto but Dubas caved to his stars unlike Holland. Good luck with setting that precedent. Its not condusive to winning if you ask me. 

Babs would crack the whip on this mess of a team, and every single person here knows that would be a goid thing

 

I wonder if Grand Master Y feels the same way as Holland does - as in he isn't all too worried in the players feelings, and what they want instead of what's best for the team?

I hope so...

[kipwinger 8,524]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Heres the thing about Babs. Hes probably a hard man to play for. And not very likable. But he squeezes the goods out of teams. He had no business being in the playoffs late with the wings but adapted to shutdown D and got them there. When players tried to get him fired Holland shut them down and made their lazy asses deal with the hard man.

All the same crap happened in Toronto but Dubas caved to his stars unlike Holland. Good luck with setting that precedent. Its not condusive to winning if you ask me. 

Babs would crack the whip on this mess of a team, and every single person here knows that would be a goid thing

 

I must have missed the part where "hard man" Babcock used his Babcockian hardness to propel a much more talented roster than ours to any meaningful playoff success in the 5+ years he was with the team. If being a hardass made Babs some super coach I'd sure like to see the results, because from where I'm sitting he's he REALLY good teams and marginal success.  Plenty of other "player's coaches" have had as much or more. 

Now Sheldon Keefe (a rookie coach (with a better record than Babs this year) is considered a bust because he hasn't unf*cked Toronto in like 40 games?  C'mon.  You're reaching bro.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I must have missed the part where "hard man" Babcock used his Babcockian hardness to propel a much more talented roster than ours to any meaningful playoff success in the 5+ years he was with the team. If being a hardass made Babs some super coach I'd sure like to see the results, because from where I'm sitting he's he REALLY good teams and marginal success.  Plenty of other "player's coaches" have had as much or more. 

Now Sheldon Keefe (a rookie coach (with a better record than Babs this year) is considered a bust because he hasn't unf*cked Toronto in like 40 games?  C'mon.  You're reaching bro.

How bout I reach out and hit ya in the chin bone

[kipwinger 8,524]

14 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

How bout I reach out and hit ya in the chin bone

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

 

Those late Babcockian teams were making the playoffs with basically Kronwall and Dekeyser as the only D men. If I remember correctly Babs really buttoned down the hatches and made the team play boring but effective D after Lidstrom was gone. IMHO it what an astute move compensating for the complete lack of defense. Can I prove that's what kept us playoff bound? Nah, just a personal notion.

The real point to F Michael's OP b4 I hijacked it thou is simply that Babs would crack the whip on these boys. I want them to feel that grip cause I think they're all lazy and I want the losers to wash out, and also because I want to punish them for disappointing me.

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Those late Babcockian teams were making the playoffs with basically Kronwall and Dekeyser as the only D men. If I remember correctly Babs really buttoned down the hatches and made the team play boring but effective D after Lidstrom was gone. IMHO it what an astute move compensating for the complete lack of defense. Can I prove that's what kept us playoff bound? Nah, just a personal notion.

The real point to F Michael's OP b4 I hijacked it thou is simply that Babs would crack the whip on these boys. I want them to feel that grip cause I think they're all lazy and I want the losers to wash out, and also because I want to punish them for disappointing me.

 

Just like he cracked the whip in Toronto?  Fat lot of good that did them.  AND that was a much more talented team than ours. 

Babcock jumped the shark.  He was never as good as people made him out to be, and he's worse now that everyone has had 15 years to figure him out. He had superstar players in TO at the beginning of the year and far from "cracking the whip" and making them competitive they were instead racing to the bottom.  Dude sucks.  He's basically this era's Ken Hitchcock. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Just like he cracked the whip in Toronto?  Fat lot of good that did them.  AND that was a much more talented team than ours. 

Babcock jumped the shark.  He was never as good as people made him out to be, and he's worse now that everyone has had 15 years to figure him out. He had superstar players in TO at the beginning of the year and far from "cracking the whip" and making them competitive they were instead racing to the bottom.  Dude sucks.  He's basically this era's Ken Hitchcock. 

Toronto should have never fired him. Marner and his teammates should have taken those tears into Dubas's office and got told to kindly STFU and play the way their told. Would have been a hard but needed growth moment for them.

Instead Dubas is a soft boy and caved to his players. Big mistake. It's already the beginning of the end for him.

[kipwinger 8,524]

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Toronto should have never fired him. Marner and his teammates should have taken those tears into Dubas's office and got told to kindly STFU and play the way their told. Would have been a hard but needed growth moment for them.

Instead Dubas is a soft boy and caved to his players. Big mistake. It's already the beginning of the end for him.

Lol. Doubt it.  They need a few vets on the team at forward to help hold guys accountable on the ice, and a little growth/maturing by the coach and key guys.  But that's about it. 

Also, from 2005 to about 2010 or 2011 Babs had all the talented, accountable, players he could ever want.  AND had superstars too.  And he got very mediocre results out of them.  He literally had his ideal situation (prime two-way superstars, gritty role players, accommodating GM) for a long period of time and we didn't get some Joel Quenneville level of success.  We got two trips to the finals and Cup win. A feat accomplished by Michael Therien/Dan Bylsma as well. Why? Because superstar talent is the rising tide that floats all boats. 

There are a ton of coaches out there that get a lot out of a little bit of talent, but Mike Babcock just isn't one of them.

Edited February 26, 2020 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

20 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Lol. Doubt it.  They need a few vets on the team at forward to help hold guys accountable on the ice, and a little growth/maturing by the coach and key guys.  But that's about it. 

Also, from 2005 to about 2010 or 2011 Babs had all the talented, accountable, players he could ever want.  AND had superstars too.  And he got very mediocre results out of them.  He literally had his ideal situation (prime two-way superstars, gritty role players, accommodating GM) for a long period of time and we didn't get some Joel Quenneville level of success.  We got two trips to the finals and Cup win. A feat accomplished by Michael Therien/Dan Bylsma as well. Why? Because superstar talent is the rising tide that floats all boats. 

There are a ton of coaches out there that get a lot out of a little bit of talent, but Mike Babcock just isn't one of them.

You're gonna feel the rising tide of my knee-bone capsizing your boat

Zetteberg and and Datsyuk became HOF level defensive centers under Babs, and 100% of credit on that goes to Mike Babcock's teachings. If that doesn't happen there's no cups, or finals, or 3rd or 2nd round exits.

[kipwinger 8,524]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You're gonna feel the rising tide of my knee-bone capsizing your boat

Zetteberg and and Datsyuk became HOF level defensive centers under Babs, and 100% of credit on that goes to Mike Babcock's teachings. If that doesn't happen there's no cups, or finals, or 3rd or 2nd round exits.

You're on crack.  Most of the credit goes to Datsyuk and Zetterberg for prioritizing two-way play themselves.  If Mike Babcock taught them to play the right way, then why didn't he do the same with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander? 

A portion of the credit does go to Mike Babcock no doubt.  He was the coach after all. But another portion of the credit goes to all those vets on the team that made sure Dats and Z were accountable every day.  Pretty hard to play half-assed hockey when Yzerman, Shanahan, Lidstrom, Draper, Malty, etc. are on the team telling you to do otherwise.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You're on crack.  Most of the credit goes to Datsyuk and Zetterberg for prioritizing two-way play themselves.  If Mike Babcock taught them to play the right way, then why didn't he do the same with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander?

Because Datsyuk and Zberg did what they were told, and if they didn't Holland wouldn't hear their cries.

Meanwhile the leafy bois are getting their bottoms wiped for them by Dubas.

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

A portion of the credit does go to Mike Babcock no doubt.  He was the coach after all. But another portion of the credit goes to all those vets on the team that made sure Dats and Z were accountable every day.  Pretty hard to play half-assed hockey when Yzerman, Shanahan, Lidstrom, Draper, Malty, etc. are on the team telling you to do otherwise.

No doubt I agree roster construction is a problem for Toronto. I liked what Shanahan and Lou did initially, but I disagree with a lot of what Dubas has done since. I think he's made sexy moves, but not wise moves.

I wonder when Dubas will learn a few vets besides a 700K Jason spezza might help

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because Datsyuk and Zberg did what they were told, and if they didn't Holland wouldn't hear their cries.

Meanwhile the leafy bois are getting their bottoms wiped for them by Dubas.

No doubt I agree roster construction is a problem for Toronto. I liked what Shanahan and Lou did initially, but I disagree with a lot of what Dubas has done since. I think he's made sexy moves, but not wise moves.

I wonder when Dubas will learn a few vets besides a 700K Jason spezza might help

Presumably when a) he can clear some of the Kapanens and Johnssons from the roster and replace them with b) non-Patrick Marleau vets who don't cost a ton for minimal production.