2020 Offseason

[marcaractac 3,963]

22 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, it must be Detroit.  Which is why he's been outscored by Red Wing superstars like Luke Glendening, Darren Helm, Adam Erne, Jacob De La Rose, Taro Hirose, Franz Nielsen, Patrick Nemeth, and Trevor Daly this season. 

 

Not to mention tied in assists with Bernier

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

It's actually hilarious how bent out of shape some of you get over the 12th forward on this terrible  (historically bad) roster...

The love for Ehn shows what an awful state this team is in...

It's almost as outrageous as the better part of a month being spent arguing about Comrie 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

It's almost as outrageous as the better part of a month being spent arguing about Comrie 

So you think it was smart asset management to let Comrie walk, when we could have added a very good, young goaltender to Grand Rapids for absolutely nothing?... Yeah, okay...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:31 PM, krsmith17 said:

So you think it was smart asset management to let Comrie walk, when we could have added a very good, young goaltender to Grand Rapids for absolutely nothing?... Yeah, okay...

Losing Comrie for nothing

Losing Regula for nothing

Losing Kaski for nothing

Selling low on AA

Inability to obtain an extra 1st

Not sacking Blash

Yzerman is lucky corona is gonna steal spotlight and the season and save him from an absolutely attrocious 1st year performance.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Losing Comrie for nothing

Losing Regula for nothing

Losing Kaski for nothing

Selling low on AA

Inability to obtain an extra 1st

Not sacking Blash

Yzerman is lucky corona is gonna steal spotlight and the season and save him from an absolutely attrocious 1st year performance.

Non-believer!

Grand Master Y shall lead us to thy Holy Grail!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Losing Comrie for nothing

Losing Regula for nothing

Losing Kaski for nothing

Selling low on AA

Inability to obtain an extra 1st

Not sacking Blash

Yzerman is lucky corona is gonna steal spotlight and the season and save him from an absolutely attrocious 1st year performance.

Miss Kenny yet?

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

This article is worth a read, looks at this upcoming year and the Wings going forward. It touches on contracts, draft picks and, well, there's not much else going on hockey-wise so enjoy.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/detroit-red-wings-long-term-210848141.html

[deanyoungblood 2]

  On 3/13/2020 at 4:08 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Losing Comrie for nothing

Losing Regula for nothing

Losing Kaski for nothing

Selling low on AA

Inability to obtain an extra 1st

Not sacking Blash

Funny:  Comrie =not nhl caliber player

 Regula - not even close to a high prospect

Kaski = not nhl caliber player

AA - Tough to get 1st round pick for someone with the worst + - We did ok with two second round picks.

Sacking Blash?  That will come in the off season.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, deanyoungblood said:

Funny:  Comrie =not nhl caliber player

 Regula - not even close to a high prospect

Kaski = not nhl caliber player

AA - Tough to get 1st round pick for someone with the worst + - We did ok with two second round picks.

Sacking Blash?  That will come in the off season.

Wow smart take

Guess we should waive Larsson. Larsson = not NHL caliber player

Guess we should trade Grewe for peanuts. Grewe = not NHL caliber player

Guess we should trade Cholowski for peanuts. Scores less than Kaski in the AHL. Cholowski = not NHL caliber player

Guess we should trade Hronek for a couple 2nds. He had the worst +/- of any Dman in the league.

God tier asset management right there.

[Dabura 12,207]

22 hours ago, Jersey Wing said:

This article is worth a read, looks at this upcoming year and the Wings going forward. It touches on contracts, draft picks and, well, there's not much else going on hockey-wise so enjoy.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/detroit-red-wings-long-term-210848141.html

Thanks for the tip. I saw it was Yahoo and was prepared for a load of bulls***, but it's Adam Gretz and he's pretty decent. Overall, a not-terrible read. 5/10. Would maybe recommend.

Gretz makes a good point about Seider -- that he's probably a ways away from being a legit dominant top-pairing guy. Even if we think he's the next Victor Hedman, we need to realize and remember that it took Hedman roughly half a decade to become That Guy...

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=107121

Grezt doesn't really touch on Bertuzzi, which makes me think he hasn't watched much Wings hockey lately. (Fair enough.) But I agree with him that 1) Larkin and Mantha are legit top-line players and 2) you're not winning a Cup with Larkin and Mantha as your best players, i.e. the Wings need a superstar. Gretz says Zadina becoming That Guy is still a possibility, but I think we all understand that that's looking like a long shot at this time. Realistically, a "fully realized" Zadina is probably something like T.J. Oshie.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Thanks for the tip. I saw it was Yahoo and was prepared for a load of bulls***, but it's Adam Gretz and he's pretty decent. Overall, a not-terrible read. 5/10. Would maybe recommend.

Gretz makes a good point about Seider -- that he's probably a ways away from being a legit dominant top-pairing guy. Even if we think he's the next Victor Hedman, we need to realize and remember that it took Hedman roughly half a decade to become That Guy...

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=107121

Grezt doesn't really touch on Bertuzzi, which makes me think he hasn't watched much Wings hockey lately. (Fair enough.) But I agree with him that 1) Larkin and Mantha are legit top-line players and 2) you're not winning a Cup with Larkin and Mantha as your best players, i.e. the Wings need a superstar. Gretz says Zadina becoming That Guy is still a possibility, but I think we all understand that that's looking like a long shot at this time. Realistically, a "fully realized" Zadina is probably something like T.J. Oshie.

I'm not too worried bout it. If we're making the Hedman comparison, Hedman was in the Lightning's top4 as a 18/19 year old logging 20 minutes a night. If Seider can do that next year and score 20 pts (like Hedman) that will be outrageously positive for this team. I'm not positive Seider will ever be a 70+, 60+, 50+ pts Dman, but if he gets to that after 5 seasons I'll consider it a welcome bonus.

[Dabura 12,207]

17 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm not too worried bout it. If we're making the Hedman comparison, Hedman was in the Lightning's top4 as a 18/19 year old logging 20 minutes a night. If Seider can do that next year and score 20 pts (like Hedman) that will be outrageously positive for this team. I'm not positive Seider will ever be a 70+, 60+, 50+ pts Dman, but if he gets to that after 5 seasons I'll consider it a welcome bonus.

Agreed. The larger point I'm making is that this rebuild is probably going to take longer than we'd all like it to.

[mackel 681]

On 4/3/2020 at 9:28 PM, Dabura said:

Thanks for the tip. I saw it was Yahoo and was prepared for a load of bulls***, but it's Adam Gretz and he's pretty decent. Overall, a not-terrible read. 5/10. Would maybe recommend.

Gretz makes a good point about Seider -- that he's probably a ways away from being a legit dominant top-pairing guy. Even if we think he's the next Victor Hedman, we need to realize and remember that it took Hedman roughly half a decade to become That Guy...

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=107121

Grezt doesn't really touch on Bertuzzi, which makes me think he hasn't watched much Wings hockey lately. (Fair enough.) But I agree with him that 1) Larkin and Mantha are legit top-line players and 2) you're not winning a Cup with Larkin and Mantha as your best players, i.e. the Wings need a superstar. Gretz says Zadina becoming That Guy is still a possibility, but I think we all understand that that's looking like a long shot at this time. Realistically, a "fully realized" Zadina is probably something like T.J. Oshie.

Hello elephant in the room... #Bust

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, Dabura said:

Agreed. The larger point I'm making is that this rebuild is probably going to take longer than we'd all like it to.

I'm with you. This is a 5-10 year rebuild in my mind.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

11 hours ago, mackel said:

Hello elephant in the room... #Bust

TJ Oshie at 6th overall would not be a bust. Keep up the good work.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

16 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

TJ Oshie at 6th overall would not be a bust. Keep up the good work.

If we're defining bust as 100% not in the league, then yeah. But "zagina = bust" is just a meme. We've argued from day 1 that Zadina is more similar to Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar and is not a cornerstone player that we should bank on for the future. And we endured a lot of grief for that.

Oshie is A LOT closer to a Hudler, Tatar, Nyquist, so yeah it feels like the white knights of Zadina are starting to wake up and smell the zagina.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

everything hinges on the draft results. Do we get Lafreniere or do we get another player with 2-4 years of development?

I understand that Holland HAD to take Zadina, he was a Holland player, plus "experts" said he was the best available, but I sure do wish they had gone D.  I wasn't exactly on the Hughes train (I was more of a Bouchard guy) but everyone knew Hughes was going to be the drafted player. I sure wish we had gone D. Can't change that now, we just have to hope Zadina becomes the player that Holland envisioned.....or trade him for an Yzerman player.

Our D is going to be VASTLY different this upcoming season, No Green, no Ericsson, no Daley.  I am pretty sure he'll qualify Bowey, but either way there is going to be 2-3 new faces back there when it's all said and done. Dekeyser being the most senior and most seniority with the club, on D. Considering the state of the rebuild, I don't see a huge signing back there, maybe a veteran presence (like a Shattenkirk or Bogosian type) but no big contracts.

Seems Bernier earned the odds on #1 spot, so I don't see Yzerman going after a G other than a backup. (please God NO JIMMY HOWARD!)

 

[Dabura 12,207]

19 hours ago, mackel said:

Hello elephant in the room... #Bust

An elephant in the room is something no one wants to talk about. All you do is talk about Zadina. So, nah.

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If we're defining bust as 100% not in the league, then yeah. But "zagina = bust" is just a meme. We've argued from day 1 that Zadina is more similar to Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar and is not a cornerstone player that we should bank on for the future. And we endured a lot of grief for that.

Oshie is A LOT closer to a Hudler, Tatar, Nyquist, so yeah it feels like the white knights of Zadina are starting to wake up and smell the zagina.

I'm saying Zadina probably isn't the 60-goal destroyer of worlds that our rebuild needs right now. That's all. "Something like Oshie" -- specifically/ideally: a better Oshie -- would still be a very important piece for this rebuild, quite possibly a cornerstone piece.

[Dabura 12,207]

18 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm with you. This is a 5-10 year rebuild in my mind.

10 years is way too blackpill'd for me. I can't bring myself to even consider that.

Mind you, I'm defining the end of the rebuild as merely a return to respectability and playoff bubble team status. I'm of the opinion that this season was a perfect storm of suck and that, as such, it doesn't necessarily 100% reflect where things are at and where things can be within a couple of years. Like, there were nights this season where our top D pairing was Trevor Daley & Alex Biega, or some such insanity. *Anything* is *exponentially* better than that.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

An elephant in the room is something no one wants to talk about. All you do is talk about Zadina. So, nah.

I'm saying Zadina probably isn't the 60-goal destroyer of worlds that our rebuild needs right now. That's all. "Something like Oshie" -- specifically/ideally: a better Oshie -- would still be a very important piece for this rebuild, quite possibly a cornerstone piece.

No doubt adding an Oshie is a big add for this team. But that's always been my point with Zadina. It's a Oshie/Tatar/Nyquist/Hudler addition. It's not going to fix the team, and in fact it may end up delaying a rebuild. I want elite players, everyone else can burn for all i care.

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

10 years is way too blackpill'd for me. I can't bring myself to even consider that.

Mind you, I'm defining the end of the rebuild as merely a return to respectability and playoff bubble team status. I'm of the opinion that this season was a perfect storm of suck and that, as such, it doesn't necessarily 100% reflect where things are at and where things can be within a couple of years. Like, there were nights this season where our top D pairing was Trevor Daley & Alex Biega, or some such insanity. *Anything* is *exponentially* better than that.

Consider me black-pilled

I think this team has deep seated problems. Reliance on Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi/Fabbri/Hronek is a crutch. Most of these players will only end up delaying the rebuild. Maybe a few of them survive and help return us to glory at a later date. But certainly not all of them will be here.

We need Crosby's/Mackinnon's/Eichels... not Larkin's and Manthas. And if trading helps us get there faster im for it. Timing does matter in my mind

[LeftWinger 4,958]

14 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think this team has deep seated problems. Reliance on Larkin/Mantha/Bertuzzi/Fabbri/Hronek is a crutch. Most of these players will only end up delaying the rebuild. Maybe a few of them survive and help return us to glory at a later date. But certainly not all of them will be here.

We need Crosby's/Mackinnon's/Eichels... not Larkin's and Manthas. And if trading helps us get there faster im for it. Timing does matter in my mind

I agree.  I would accept a trade of Mantha PLUS if it meant bringing in an elite type player.  This draft will tell a lot, but ya, there just may have to be some deals made in order to get us back to where we were.  I do believe Larkin is here to stay, Fabbri I think is going to be a great player for us. Bertuzzi will hinge on what he wants to re-sign for and whether or not he pulls a hold out. Both he and Mantha are good building blocks though. If either of them are dealt, I could see Mantha going before Bertuzzi.  What do you think we could get out of Montreal for Home-town Mantha? 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

56 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree.  I would accept a trade of Mantha PLUS if it meant bringing in an elite type player.  This draft will tell a lot, but ya, there just may have to be some deals made in order to get us back to where we were.  I do believe Larkin is here to stay, Fabbri I think is going to be a great player for us. Bertuzzi will hinge on what he wants to re-sign for and whether or not he pulls a hold out. Both he and Mantha are good building blocks though. If either of them are dealt, I could see Mantha going before Bertuzzi.  What do you think we could get out of Montreal for Home-town Mantha? 

I believe we first started discussing this last year as soon as Yzerman was hired, but we may as well hearken back to it now.

How Yzerman handles these RFAs is everything, and will be easy indicators of the teams direction.

If Mantha gets handed a 5 - 7 year contract this summer, that tells me Yzerman sees him as core piece to build around for the foreseeable future. If he gets a 2 - 3 year deal though... (unless Mantha explodes and becomes an elite player) it would suggest to me he'll likely be traded in the near future. Same goes for just about every RFA we have.

What I like about Yzerman is that he is decisive. Much more so than Holland ever was. Regula not part of Yzerman's future plan? Trade him. Athanasiou not part of the plan? Trade him. I suspect that any player he doesn't regard as part of his rebuild will be dealt with similar decisiveness, within practicality

IDK what Mantha would fetch, but I'm at the conclusion that if we want something for any of these players we should do it ASAP. There's a window of opportunity that we can exploit to reach critical mass. That window opened in 2018 and it will likely close within the next 1-5 seasons. While this window is open we need to flood the team with young potentially elite talent. The alternative wait and see approach means we hold onto our current core players, pick higher, and pick less.

Basically, do we wanna pick in the 5-15 range once a year and trade Mantha in a few seasons? Or pick in the 1-5 range once a year and add multiple supplementary picks now, by trading Mantha now. In theory I prefer the later. I regard Mantha as a good player, but not as the next Ovechkin or anything. Therefore he's expendable to me.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

HSJ: Red Wings who probably won't be back

• Abdelkader: Contract too big, so he won't get bought out. Likely to be waived to the AHL. Wings gain $1 mil in cap relief and the roster spot.
• Daley: gone
• Ericsson: gone
• Goloubef: gone
• Howard: gone
• Perlini: gone
• Bernier: starter
• Bertuzzi: long-term deal
• Bowey: probably will be back, but may not last long
• Ehn: extension
• Erne: extension
• Fabbri: mid to long extension
• Filppula: trade bait
• Gagner: possible 1 year deal
• Glendening: trade bait
• Helm: trade bait
• Hronek: long term extension
• Larkin: captain
• Lindstrom: probably back n forth between GR and DET still
• Mantha: 1 year deal or long term extension
• Nemeth: likely Seider's D partner next year
• Nielsen: hope that he will rebound
• Timashov: extension
• Blashill: most likely gone, but may remain in the organization in a different capacity

 

[LeftWinger 4,958]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

HSJ: Red Wings who probably won't be back

• Abdelkader: Contract too big, so he won't get bought out. Likely to be waived to the AHL. Wings gain $1 mil in cap relief and the roster spot.
• Daley: gone
• Ericsson: gone
• Goloubef: gone
• Howard: gone
• Perlini: gone
• Bernier: starter
• Bertuzzi: long-term deal
• Bowey: probably will be back, but may not last long
• Ehn: extension
• Erne: extension
• Fabbri: mid to long extension
• Filppula: trade bait
• Gagner: possible 1 year deal
• Glendening: trade bait
• Helm: trade bait
• Hronek: long term extension
• Larkin: captain
• Lindstrom: probably back n forth between GR and DET still
• Mantha: 1 year deal or long term extension
• Nemeth: likely Seider's D partner next year
• Nielsen: hope that he will rebound
• Timashov: extension
• Blashill: most likely gone, but may remain in the organization in a different capacity

 

...and this is before there is any type of compliance buyout (if teams get one(or two).) 

all of Filppula, Helm, Glenny should be a pretty nice draft pick back from a Cup team.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

...and this is before there is any type of compliance buyout (if teams get one(or two).) 

all of Filppula, Helm, Glenny should be a pretty nice draft pick back from a Cup team.

IDK, I don't see any 1st rounders coming out of those players, some 2nds would be nice though. Filppula maybe gets a 3rd?

The most telling prediction for me was "Blashill probably gone, might remain with the Wings in a different capacity" AKA this guy is so goddamn awful he's not gonna be able to get a coaching job elsewhere in the NHL.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

IDK, I don't see any 1st rounders coming out of those players, some 2nds would be nice though. Filppula maybe gets a 3rd?

The most telling prediction for me was "Blashill probably gone, might remain with the Wings in a different capacity" AKA this guy is so goddamn awful he's not gonna be able to get a coaching job elsewhere in the NHL.

if we've learned anything, we aren't getting any 1st rounders for our players.  But ya, a 2nd rounder for Helm or Glenny would be fine.  Unless we could get a young RFA or something.  Referring to the other thread, how about one of them for Strome?