2020 Offseason

[Akakabuto 1,749]

16 minutes ago, SwedeWings said:

Maybe a prospect and a couple of picks? I would do it!

Im terrible at valuing trades myself. Just wondering if its worth it? Why give up assets in this phase of the rebuild when there som good/decent goalies (probably)hitting the market this summer? Whenever this season ends and free agency begins...

 

[AtlantaHotWings 983]

Bernier stats behind our "wonderful" defense sipped from NHL.com

Murray's on what I think we can agree a much better Pens defense. 

 

Murray had some nice company where he is sitting with Bob and Anderson. 

I wonder if part of Murrays "issues" were that he was looking over his shoulder worrying about the the other guy taking over. 

Dependent on cost I might be tempted to make the call to the Pens

[Akakabuto 1,749]

26 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Murray had some nice company where he is sitting with Bob and Anderson. 

I wonder if part of Murrays "issues" were that he was looking over his shoulder worrying about the the other guy taking over. 

Dependent on cost I might be tempted to make the call to the Pens

If we can buy low then I'm intrigued.

No good goalie hitting UFA is willing to sign with us anyway..

[SwedeWings 7]

I think it would be nice to have a good goalie signed for a couple of years! I would not mind having Murray on board! We got a whole bunch of picks the coming drafts. If we could get a young stanley cup winning goalie for some picks and a prospect I really think it`s worth it.

 

Think about how many of the drafted players that really(not) plays in the NHL and compare that to if we could get a goalie of Murrays caliber.

 

It would be at good addition in our rebuild! 

[Akakabuto 1,749]

22 minutes ago, SwedeWings said:

It would be at good addition in our rebuild! 

There is no denying we need better goaltending. Always paying for your mistakes by getting scored on really hurts the development young defenders. 

[kipwinger 8,521]

I'm confused, is Bernier good or not?  Because half of LGW was adamantly opposed to trading him at the deadline because he was so good and now a bunch of other people are saying we need good goaltending. 

[ely s 457]

Murray is 25, coming into his prime with 2 cups, very intriguing

 

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm confused, is Bernier good or not?  Because half of LGW was adamantly opposed to trading him at the deadline because he was so good and now a bunch of other people are saying we need good goaltending. 

He was better than Howie...but he is not the future

edit: but still a good enough backup

Edited May 11, 2020 by ely s

[marcaractac 3,962]

15 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm confused, is Bernier good or not?  Because half of LGW was adamantly opposed to trading him at the deadline because he was so good and now a bunch of other people are saying we need good goaltending. 

You answered your own question.

However, teams need two good goalies these days. I personally don't really see any reason to spend assets in a trade to acquire one at this time. Sign someone to split duties with Bernier off of UFA. The odds of someone being worse than Howard in 2019/20 is slim to none. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by marcaractac

[marcaractac 3,962]

17 minutes ago, ely s said:

Murray is 25, coming into his prime with 2 cups, very intriguing

Keep in mind his two cups came in his first two seasons. He has been more inconsistent since. Gotta imagine hose two cups come into play when negotiating his next contract as well.

If we were a contender now in need of an experienced goalie, I'd probably bite. But a rebuilding team shouldn't be spending assets on these types of moves. 

[Akakabuto 1,749]

Even if Bernier played well this season, looking at his career, I wouldnt trust him to carry that over to next season and beyond. 
 

I like Bernie. He was a great goalie prospect that got beaten out of LA by Quick and then suffered the unimaginable fate of getting traded to the Leafs. Dude probably got no self confidence left. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Akakabuto

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Goalies with Murray's stats are available for nothing. Don't waste assets.

[ely s 457]

5 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Keep in mind his two cups came in his first two seasons. He has been more inconsistent since. Gotta imagine hose two cups come into play when negotiating his next contract as well.

If we were a contender now in need of an experienced goalie, I'd probably bite. But a rebuilding team shouldn't be spending assets on these types of moves. 

If you get him fairly cheap you have a good goalie for 7 years, I hope our rebuild doesn´t take that long

[SwedeWings 7]

Sure Bernier is good, but I don`t see him as a number one goalie. Yes he can carry us one match or another, but it would be nice to start winning soon too. 

I really would like to lock up a great goalie for some years to get some security at the back! Murray would give us that.

The fans deserves a good NHL team again. I`ve seen almost every Wings game this season even tho I live in Sweden, and this just isn`t fun right now...

 

[marcaractac 3,962]

4 minutes ago, ely s said:

If you get him fairly cheap you have a good goalie for 7 years, I hope our rebuild doesn´t take that long

There is nothing about Murray's stats you can't get in UFA for cash. 

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

There is nothing about Murray's stats you can't get in UFA for cash. 

Yeah but what about his intangibles?  If being a hockey fan has taught me anything it's that (when convenient) stats don't mean "everything" and the ol' eyeball test is your best guide.  Murray has his name on two Stanley Cups and learned under the tutelage of future hall of famer Marc Andre Fleury.  Can your stupid spreadsheet monetize that?

[mackel 679]

22 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Except for the fact that you're wrong...

Oh yea you said I'm wrong... so yeahhh definately true..  psha

[Akakabuto 1,749]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah but what about his intangibles?  If being a hockey fan has taught me anything it's that (when convenient) stats don't mean "everything" and the ol' eyeball test is your best guide.  Murray has his name on two Stanley Cups and learned under the tutelage of future hall of famer Marc Andre Fleury.  Can your stupid spreadsheet monetize that?

Now that you mention it, I have never heard anyone use intangibles when talking about/evalueating a goalie. Its probably the one position where stats mean everything due to minimal part of the play. I guess a goalie can be ”clutch” though. But you can arguably use their playoff stats to make that tangible. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Akakabuto

[mackel 679]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm confused, is Bernier good or not?  Because half of LGW was adamantly opposed to trading him at the deadline because he was so good and now a bunch of other people are saying we need good goaltending. 

He's an excellent 1B goalie... he was this team's MVP this season IMHO... can we upgrade, yup for sure...  I like Murray or Lehner as the 1A say a 50/32 split.

[kipwinger 8,521]

9 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Now that you mention it, I have never heard anyone use intangibles when talking about/evalueating a goalie. Its probably the one position stats mean everything due to minimal part of the play. I guess a goalie can be ”clutch” though. But you can arguably use their playoff stats to make that tangible. 

It usually goes the other way.  The "headcase" goalie is totally a thing.  "Yeah Luongo/Lundqvist are good regular season goalies, but they fall apart when the game's on the line.  Total headcases".  Or "Osgood is solid, but he let's in the occasional floater when his head's not in it'. 

But I learned from the Detroit Lions that if someone is in close proximity to greatness they basically are great.  Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn MUST be winners. I mean...Bill Belichick...amirite?

I guess what's I'm saying is Matt Murray is the kind of guy who will turn this franchise around.  You don't spend that much time around Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Fleury without learning something about winning (presumably by osmosis).  Throw the bank at this guy.

[krsmith17 7,191]

24 minutes ago, mackel said:

Oh yea you said I'm wrong... so yeahhh definately true..  psha

You said that Kotkaniemi has been better than Zadina. That's a false statement.

[mackel 679]

33 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You said that Kotkaniemi has been better than Zadina. That's a false statement.

No it isn't.

[13dangledangle 958]

9 minutes ago, mackel said:

No it isn't.

courtesy of Neo:

Jesperi Kotkaniemi: 115 NHL games played. 42 points. 0.36 PPG average.

Barrett Hayton: Only 20 NHL games played so far. 4 points. 0.20 PPG average.

Filip Zadina: 34 NHL games played. 18 points. 0.53 PPG average.

 

Oh but yes it is  

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, mackel said:

No it isn't.

Zadina got promoted and would have finished the season in Detroit if it weren't for an injury.

Kotkaniemi got demoted and finished the season in Laval.

Zadina put up 15 points in 28 games (0.54 points per game) in Detroit.

Kotkaniemi put up 8 points in 36 games (0.22 points per game) in Montreal.

I'm not saying Zadina will be better than Kotkaniemi (although I think he will be), but to say that Kotkaniemi has been better is false...

[mackel 679]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Zadina got promoted and would have finished the season in Detroit if it weren't for an injury.

Kotkaniemi got demoted and finished the season in Laval.

Zadina put up 15 points in 28 games (0.54 points per game) in Detroit.

Kotkaniemi put up 8 points in 36 games (0.22 points per game) in Montreal.

I'm not saying Zadina will be better than Kotkaniemi (although I think he will be), but to say that Kotkaniemi has been better is false...

That's one of the most pathetic attempts I've seen at backing up an argument.

Kotkaniemi played a full season in the NHL at center when Zadina was struggling in the AHL.

Kotkaniemi was battling concussion issues this season and thus not playing up to par.  Despite this and playing center was better defensively.

Kotkaniemi once healthy was playing at a point per game clip in the AHL, surpassing Zadina's per game rate... comparing apples to apples, both healthy, both in the same league.

 

If you're going to be disagreeable that's fine... but please don't use BS cherry picked stats, you look stupid and make me have to type...

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, mackel said:

That's one of the most pathetic attempts I've seen at backing up an argument.

Kotkaniemi played a full season in the NHL at center when Zadina was struggling in the AHL.

Kotkaniemi was battling concussion issues this season and thus not playing up to par.  Despite this and playing center was better defensively.

Kotkaniemi once healthy was playing at a point per game clip in the AHL, surpassing Zadina's per game rate... comparing apples to apples, both healthy, both in the same league.

If you're going to be disagreeable that's fine... but please don't use BS cherry picked stats, you look stupid and make me have to type...

Kotkaniemi started out hot, and was better in their draft +1 season. No debating that. Zadina has been better recently, in their draft +2 season. Zadina caught up, surpassed, and will widen the gap next season.

Zadina > Kotkaniemi.

I know how much it will bother you when a Red Wings prospect proves to be better than a Habs prospect...