2020 Offseason

[Dabura 12,207]

10 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Did you miss the part where we traded him to Edmonton?

Seemed like he genuinely enjoyed being a Wing, or at least a Michigan resident. Wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to re-up for one more year.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Seemed like he genuinely enjoyed being a Wing, or at least a Michigan resident. Wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to re-up for one more year.

I don't see Yzerman bringing him back. Hronek, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Biega are all under contract for next season. Seider, Lindstrom, and Cholowski are due to be on the roster. And Bowey is a RFA and will probably be re-signed. That's one too many D as it is. I have no problem sending Biega or Bowey down since they've peaked as lower end D-men, but I wouldn't bring back Green in favor of Seider, Cholowski, or Lindstrom being on the roster. Those 3 are still developing and should fill in the right side nicely. Green would just be a RH plug, and we already have 2 of those in Biega and Bowey.

[ely s 457]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't see Yzerman bringing him back. Hronek, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Biega are all under contract for next season. Seider, Lindstrom, and Cholowski are due to be on the roster. And Bowey is a RFA and will probably be re-signed. That's one too many D as it is. I have no problem sending Biega or Bowey down since they've peaked as lower end D-men, but I wouldn't bring back Green in favor of Seider, Cholowski, or Lindstrom being on the roster. Those 3 are still developing and should fill in the right side nicely. Green would just be a RH plug, and we already have 2 of those in Biega and Bowey.

I wouldn´t see Green as a plug, more as a veteran presence. Our future RD with Seider,Hronek and Lindström is very promising, but also very young. Green for another 2/3 of a season sounds like a good thing to me, he doesn´t have to move and can finish his career after next season and we have a mentor kind of player for ~50 games and a pick at the deadline. Cholowski isn´t ready yet and might need another half season in GR . Biega as the 7th D and Bowey, he is a guy with all the tools and no clue how to use them, send to somewhere else. That way Green looks like a good fit, depending on what Yzerman wants and how the draft plays out of course

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, ely s said:

I wouldn´t see Green as a plug, more as a veteran presence. Our future RD with Seider,Hronek and Lindström is very promising, but also very young. Green for another 2/3 of a season sounds like a good thing to me, he doesn´t have to move and can finish his career after next season and we have a mentor kind of player for ~50 games and a pick at the deadline. Cholowski isn´t ready yet and might need another half season in GR . Biega as the 7th D and Bowey, he is a guy with all the tools and no clue how to use them, send to somewhere else. That way Green looks like a good fit, depending on what Yzerman wants and how the draft plays out of course

If you're talking about the D being Hronek, Seider, Lindstrom, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Cholowski, I wouldn't have an issue bringing Green back. I was always in favor of signing him, and he seemed to be a good team guy. But you still have to do something with Bowey and Biega. Neither have much trade value and I doubt they would pass thru waivers if sent down. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

30 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you're talking about the D being Hronek, Seider, Lindstrom, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Cholowski, I wouldn't have an issue bringing Green back. I was always in favor of signing him, and he seemed to be a good team guy. But you still have to do something with Bowey and Biega. Neither have much trade value and I doubt they would pass thru waivers if sent down. 

Yzerman's going to spend some money on a D-men not named Green. Some mid-tier guy like Brodie, Gudas, Gustafson, Tanev, etc. 

[Dabura 12,207]

17 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't see Yzerman bringing him back. Hronek, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Biega are all under contract for next season. Seider, Lindstrom, and Cholowski are due to be on the roster. And Bowey is a RFA and will probably be re-signed. That's one too many D as it is. I have no problem sending Biega or Bowey down since they've peaked as lower end D-men, but I wouldn't bring back Green in favor of Seider, Cholowski, or Lindstrom being on the roster. Those 3 are still developing and should fill in the right side nicely. Green would just be a RH plug, and we already have 2 of those in Biega and Bowey.

I doubt Yzerman brings him back. But we definitely need to add a veteran top-four defenseman, maybe two. I think overpaying T. J. Brodie on a three-year deal would be ideal. That doesn't sound too appealing, I know, but I feel we need a Brodie. Good skater. Good puck-mover. Good first pass. Plays a pretty steady two-way game. Can play hard minutes.

Granted, it helps to be Mark Giordano's default partner. For what it's worth, Blashill has said he wants Hronek to model his game after Giordano's. Maybe Brodie can help Hronek reach his full potential.

Brodie probably goes to Toronto, though. mehhh.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I doubt Yzerman brings him back. But we definitely need to add a veteran top-four defenseman, maybe two. I think overpaying T. J. Brodie on a three-year deal would be ideal. That doesn't sound too appealing, I know, but I feel we need a Brodie. Good skater. Good puck-mover. Good first pass. Plays a pretty steady two-way game. Can play hard minutes.

Granted, it helps to be Mark Giordano's default partner. For what it's worth, Blashill has said he wants Hronek to model his game after Giordano's. Maybe Brodie can help Hronek reach his full potential.

Brodie probably goes to Toronto, though. mehhh.

Well, the good thing about having the worst NHL D in about 30 years is that any vet age 28 - 32 that doesn't accidentally poop himself when he farts would be an upgrade over everyone but Hronek, DeKeyser (if healthy), and maybe Nemeth. 

[ely s 457]

20 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you're talking about the D being Hronek, Seider, Lindstrom, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Cholowski, I wouldn't have an issue bringing Green back. I was always in favor of signing him, and he seemed to be a good team guy. But you still have to do something with Bowey and Biega. Neither have much trade value and I doubt they would pass thru waivers if sent down. 

keep Biega as 7th dman and send Bowey down. Bowey will never have "high" trade value, if someone claims him, so be it, I wouldn´t shed a tear.

[Dabura 12,207]

21 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Well, the good thing about having the worst NHL D in about 30 years is that any vet age 28 - 32 that doesn't accidentally poop himself when he farts would be an upgrade over everyone but Hronek, DeKeyser (if healthy), and maybe Nemeth. 

Nemeth's ok in my book. Good shutdown guy.

...Which sort of proves your point, I guess. Our blue line is so thin that I'm cool with Patrik Nemeth being one half of our top pairing.

[AtlantaHotWings 987]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Nemeth's ok in my book. Good shutdown guy.

...Which sort of proves your point, I guess. Our blue line is so thin that I'm cool with Patrik Nemeth being one half of our top pairing.

sad and yet funny at the same time.....

[Akakabuto 1,750]

1 hour ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

sad and yet funny at the same time.....

I fail to see the humor tbh. Thats just sad. 
 

We got a couple of guys coming in. If two of those develops as well as we all hope we might just be one guy(added through FA or trade) short of a good enough defense. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

I fail to see the humor tbh. Thats just sad. 
 

We got a couple of guys coming in. If two of those develops as well as we all hope we might just be one guy(added through FA or trade) short of a good enough defense. 

Who are the two? Obviously Seider, but who is the second guy coming? Cholowski? McIsaac? Lindstrom? Johansson? Tuomisto? We have a lot of solid prospects in the pipe, but only Seider projects to be a needle mover. Hopefully one of those other guys can exceed expectations, and become a top 2-3 defenseman.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

39 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Who are the two? Obviously Seider, but who is the second guy coming? Cholowski? McIsaac? Lindstrom? Johansson? Tuomisto? We have a lot of solid prospects in the pipe, but only Seider projects to be a needle mover. Hopefully one of those other guys can exceed expectations, and become a top 2-3 defenseman.

I think one will and I think it will be either Tuomisto or Johansson..............in about 5 years

[Akakabuto 1,750]

54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Obviously Seider, but who is the second guy coming? Cholowski? McIsaac? Lindstrom? Johansson? Tuomisto?

Thats basically the group I was referring to. Hronek is already penciled in. 

So lets say Seider becomes a 1A defenseman and  Hronek a 1B/2A. Then we basically need a prospect and an acquisition to fill out the top 4. McIsaac and Johansson are the first I think of to grab that last spot. 

The rest of the guys should be able to fill out the bottom pairing.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Akakabuto

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:30 PM, ely s said:

keep Biega as 7th dman and send Bowey down. Bowey will never have "high" trade value, if someone claims him, so be it, I wouldn´t shed a tear.

I don't think it's a coincidence that SY has been stockpiling RH D. Even depth level dmen have more value if they're RH. Bowey and/or Biega wouldn't pass thru waivers if sent down. We would be losing something of value for nothing.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I think one will and I think it will be either Tuomisto or Johansson..............in about 5 years

If it takes them 5 years, I don't think we can count on them being anything more than bottom pairing defensemen... I'm hoping at least one will be ready to step in, in 2-3 years...

3 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Thats basically the group I was referring to. Hronek is already penciled in. 

So lets say Seider becomes a 1A defenseman and  Hronek a 1B/2A. Then we basically need a prospect and an acquisition to fill out the top 4. McIsaac and Johansson are the first I think of to grab that last spot. 

The rest of the guys should be able to fill out the bottom pairing.

I agree. Don't sleep on Tuomisto either though...

52 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that SY has been stockpiling RH D. Even depth level dmen have more value if they're RH. Bowey and/or Biega wouldn't pass thru waivers if sent down. We would be losing something of value for nothing.

Biega has zero value. Being claimed off waivers doesn't change that. He still wouldn't garner anything in a trade. Bowey might get us a mid to late pick under the right circumstances.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

If it takes them 5 years, I don't think we can count on them being anything more than bottom pairing defensemen... I'm hoping at least one will be ready to step in, in 2-3 years...

Considering one of them is going to Denver and one of them is like 165 lbs I think it's fair to assume it will take either of them 5 years to establish themselves as a #2 or 3 damn. They'd make the roster in a few years though. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Biega has zero value. Being claimed off waivers doesn't change that. He still wouldn't garner anything in a trade.

Yzerman didn't think so.

Do we really want another Comrie incident? Trading away a prospect/pick away for a guy you lose on waivers for nothing. Did you forget about that overdone argument?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,207]

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that SY has been stockpiling RH D. Even depth level dmen have more value if they're RH. Bowey and/or Biega wouldn't pass thru waivers if sent down. We would be losing something of value for nothing.

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yzerman didn't think so.

Do we really want another Comrie incident? Trading away a prospect/pick away for a guy you lose on waivers for nothing. Did you forget about that overdone argument?

To be fair, Bowey 1) hasn't been re-signed yet and 2) is nothing more than a #5-7 defenseman at the NHL level.

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

To be fair, Bowey 1) hasn't been re-signed yet and 2) is nothing more than a #5-7 defenseman at the NHL level.

 

Bowey is a RFA. Pretty likely he gets re-signed. Yes, they are depth dmen. But they required assets to acquire, so we shouldn't just lose them on waivers for nothing if we don't have to.

[Dabura 12,207]

8 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Considering one of them is going to Denver and one of them is like 165 lbs I think it's fair to assume it will take either of them 5 years to establish themselves as a #2 or 3 damn. They'd make the roster in a few years though. 

Basically, yeah. Hope for a quick ascent, but expect a slow ascent.

Hronek was drafted in 2016. 2020-21 will be the first season where he's utilized as a legit go-to guy straight out of the gate. That's four(ish) years.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Considering one of them is going to Denver and one of them is like 165 lbs I think it's fair to assume it will take either of them 5 years to establish themselves as a #2 or 3 damn. They'd make the roster in a few years though. 

I assume you're talking about Johansson. Hakan has compared him to Hronek (better skater, not quite as good a shot), and they were virtually the exact same size on draft day. It's nothing for a player to gain 15lbs. of bulk in one season. If Johansson (or any of these guys) are going to develop into a top 2-3 defensemen, I expect them to show that in the next 2-3 seasons.

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yzerman didn't think so.

Do we really want another Comrie incident? Trading away a prospect/pick away for a guy you lose on waivers for nothing. Did you forget about that overdone argument?

Yzerman traded a spare part, a player that he knew would never make the NHL for a warm body. So yeah, maybe we could trade Biega for an ECHL player... aka zero value.

The "Comrie incident" was different in that it was a position of weakness. In this case, Biega fills a position of strength, arguably the only strength in the organization.

Biega is also 32 years old. Comrie is 24.

Biega sucks. Comrie probably sucks, but would have been worth holding onto to find out...

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Bowey is a RFA. Pretty likely he gets re-signed. Yes, they are depth dmen. But they required assets to acquire, so we shouldn't just lose them on waivers for nothing if we don't have to.

His rights could get traded. I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, I'm just saying I'll fret about him if we actually re-sign him and if it's looking like we're going to lose him on waivers and if that strikes me as a big problem.

Ideally, you never lose an asset for nothing. But it does happen. [shrug] I think the reason why I'm kinda flippant about this is I'm just so damn sick of our Logjam of Mediocrity on the back end. For the past, like, seven years we've been agonizing and fighting over Red Wings defensemen who ultimately never amounted to anything. With Hronek establishing himself as a legit top-pairing guy and with Seider looking like a future top-pairing guy and with Yzerman probably having some decent cap flexibility for the next few years (which he can put towards a high-end UFA defenseman, if he so desires), I'm that much more disinclined to care about what happens with a player like Bowey.

I'm being kinda harsh, I guess. But 2019-20 was pretty harsh on Wings fans. So...eat my shorts, Red Wings blue line.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Basically, yeah. Hope for a quick ascent, but expect a slow ascent.

Hronek was drafted in 2016. 2020-21 will be the first season where he's utilized as a legit go-to guy straight out of the gate. That's four(ish) years.

I'd argue that Hronek showed signs of becoming that top 2-3 defenseman in 2018-19, and solidified that in 2019-20. 3ish seasons. Johansson has already completed his draft +1 season, so in 2-3 seasons, I would expect him to be well on his way to prove that he can be that top 2-3 defenseman. If not, he's probably another average defenseman that doesn't move the needle...

[Dabura 12,207]

15 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd argue that Hronek showed signs of becoming that top 2-3 defenseman in 2018-19, and solidified that in 2019-20. 3ish seasons. Johansson has already completed his draft +1 season, so in 2-3 seasons, I would expect him to be well on his way to prove that he can be that top 2-3 defenseman. If not, he's probably another average defenseman that doesn't move the needle...

Sure. I'm just using "definitively establishes himself as a top-three NHL defenseman" as the target, which adds a year or two to the estimated timeline.

So let's call it 3-5 years.