2020 Offseason

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Oh. You mean "ring" as in phone call. Not "ring" as in jewelry. 

Nah, no Cup rings for him. But $1-2 million to back up Bernier (he seems to have earned the starting job regardless of who comes in) and not have to worry about playoffs is easy money.

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

It's absolutely an option. Kari is a pretty good goalie and the price should not be to steep.

Yep. He was always solid in the regular season, even in Atlanta on a horrible team. But in the playoffs in high pressure situations, not so much. Dallas had to sign guys like Niemi and Bishop to bail him out. But there would be no such pressure on him in Detroit. 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

9 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yep. He was always solid in the regular season, even in Atlanta on a horrible team. But in the playoffs in high pressure situations, not so much. Dallas had to sign guys like Niemi and Bishop to bail him out. But there would be no such pressure on him in Detroit. 

Wait a minute, I got confused, I was thinking about Khudobin. Isn't Lehtonen retired?

[Akakabuto 1,750]

Khudobin has been a beast for Dallas this year but with the flat cap and also having Bishop on the books for the next three years its gonna be difficult for the Stars to keep them both. 

[chaps80 1,591]

4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Wait a minute, I got confused, I was thinking about Khudobin. Isn't Lehtonen retired?

Khudobin is also a solid option for sure. Ya, Kari left the NHL three years back or so after his contract expired...that's not too bad if he's kept in shape. I'd like to see it happen. lol

[chaps80 1,591]

4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Khudobin has been a beast for Dallas this year but with the flat cap and also having Bishop on the books for the next three years its gonna be difficult for the Stars to keep them both. 

Yeah, Bishop eats up $5 mill alone. Khudobin is making $2.5 mill right now, and he will want a raise the team can't afford and a shot at a starting job the team can't give.

[marcaractac 3,963]

On 8/28/2020 at 11:34 AM, kipwinger said:

He's had one healthy season in the last four. Sorry if I'm not totally convinced he's healthy.

The part you're ignoring was that it was his most recent season. Maybe the injuries are behind him now. Remember Helm and Kronwall in their younger years?

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

The part you're ignoring was that it was his most recent season. Maybe the injuries are behind him now. Remember Helm and Kronwall in their younger years?

Remember Franzen? Or Stephen Weiss?

Edit: Also, Helm had a series of groin pulls and a broken collarbone. Kronwall broke his leg. All those injuries heal 100% and are not even close to as bad as blowing out an ACL...twice. That's a MUCH more significant injury.

Edited August 31, 2020 by kipwinger

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Remember Franzen? Or Stephen Weiss?

Edit: Also, Helm had a series of groin pulls and a broken collarbone. Kronwall broke his leg. All those injuries heal 100% and are not even close to as bad as blowing out an ACL...twice. That's a MUCH more significant injury.

Franzen and Weiss are no more comparable to Fabbri than Helm or Kronwall. But i'll bite. Remember Malkin? Turns out, players absolutely can recover from major knee injuries and still be the player they were before hand. 

It was a low risk move bringing him here to begin with. He stayed healthy and produced. He earned a bridge deal to see if he can keep it up. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, marcaractac said:

Franzen and Weiss are no more comparable to Fabbri than Helm or Kronwall. But i'll bite. Remember Malkin? Turns out, players absolutely can recover from major knee injuries and still be the player they were before hand. 

It was a low risk move bringing him here to begin with. He stayed healthy and produced. He earned a bridge deal to see if he can keep it up. 

That's exactly the point, we don't know what we've got in Fabbri because he's can't string together healthy, productive, seasons. So rather than just assume his injuries are a thing of the past why not sign him to a one year deal, put the onus on him to stay healthy and produce (like I've been saying for about two weeks now), and THEN sign him to a bigger, longer, contract if he's able to do so.

Also he didn't STAY healthy. He had ONE healthy season in his last FOUR. If he could STAY healthy I wouldn't be saying it was an over payment. I've only ever advocated that Fabbri ACTUALLY DO the thing you all keep giving him credit for...be a healthy, productive, hockey player. Doing something ONCE isn't a trend, if it were Justin Abdelkader would be a perennial 20 goals scorer.

[LeftWinger 4,959]

I think Dallas will shop Bishop and re-sign Khudobin. Going back to my thoughts on that, Yzerman should take 100% of that contract and their 1st round pick. We have the space, we need to solidify the G position. No guarantee Bernier won't go back to pre-January Bernier. Having Bishop for the next three years will only help us. I know he has a NMC, but we know they can be waived. Detroit might not be his best option for winning, but it might be his best option for playing, plus his history with Yzerman helps too.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's exactly the point, we don't know what we've got in Fabbri because he's can't string together healthy, productive, seasons. So rather than just assume his injuries are a thing of the past why not sign him to a one year deal, put the onus on him to stay healthy and produce (like I've been saying for about two weeks now), and THEN sign him to a bigger, longer, contract if he's able to do so.

Also he didn't STAY healthy. He had ONE healthy season in his last FOUR. If he could STAY healthy I wouldn't be saying it was an over payment. I've only ever advocated that Fabbri ACTUALLY DO the thing you all keep giving him credit for...be a healthy, productive, hockey player. Doing something ONCE isn't a trend, if it were Justin Abdelkader would be a perennial 20 goals scorer.

Fabbri did STAY healthy as a Red Wing. He was a healthy, productive hockey player in Detroit.

Injuries are so unpredictable in the NHL. Any player can suffer a serious injury at any time. IF Fabbri does suffer another serious injury, he can be put on LTIR, and it doesn't affect the team's cap situation in any meaningful way. Whether you want to admit it or not, a two-year contract is a "show-me" contract, and at sub $3M, there's absolutely no risk, and nothing not to like about the contract.

[marcaractac 3,963]

28 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's exactly the point, we don't know what we've got in Fabbri because he's can't string together healthy, productive, seasons. So rather than just assume his injuries are a thing of the past why not sign him to a one year deal, put the onus on him to stay healthy and produce (like I've been saying for about two weeks now), and THEN sign him to a bigger, longer, contract if he's able to do so.

Also he didn't STAY healthy. He had ONE healthy season in his last FOUR. If he could STAY healthy I wouldn't be saying it was an over payment. I've only ever advocated that Fabbri ACTUALLY DO the thing you all keep giving him credit for...be a healthy, productive, hockey player. Doing something ONCE isn't a trend, if it were Justin Abdelkader would be a perennial 20 goals scorer.

Yes, one healthy season is not a trend. But a healthy season he had, and clearly the hope is that it becomes a trend. Injuries should absolutely have a big impact if there is significant term or salary being thrown around. But neither is the case here. The scenario is low-risk enough to give the guy a bridge deal based on his time as a Red Wing. If he was asking for a long term deal? Sure, put on the brakes. But for this? Nahh man. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

13 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Yes, one healthy season is not a trend. But a healthy season he had, and clearly the hope is that it becomes a trend. Injuries should absolutely have a big impact if there is significant term or salary being thrown around. But neither is the case here. The scenario is low-risk enough to give the guy a bridge deal based on his time as a Red Wing. If he was asking for a long term deal? Sure, put on the brakes. But for this? Nahh man. 

I've never said the contract was debilitating. I said it was an overpayment. And I've explained why. You keep changing the narrative. If I were the GM I wouldn't be willing to pay for the "hope" of a healthy season with a guy who has not, EVER, played a full NHL season. As a result, anything beyond that IMO is an overpayment. I've made that point abundantly clear. You and a handful of others are intentionally misrepresenting me now, suggesting that I'm saying the sky is falling because of the Fabbri contract. Clearly it isn't. But 2 years at 2.9 million is more than I'd have paid for a guy who is rarely healthy, only moderately productive when he is (this ain't no Malkin), and has absolutely ZERO contract leverage.

[marcaractac 3,963]

53 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I've never said the contract was debilitating. I said it was an overpayment. And I've explained why. You keep changing the narrative. If I were the GM I wouldn't be willing to pay for the "hope" of a healthy season with a guy who has not, EVER, played a full NHL season. As a result, anything beyond that IMO is an overpayment. I've made that point abundantly clear. You and a handful of others are intentionally misrepresenting me now, suggesting that I'm saying the sky is falling because of the Fabbri contract. Clearly it isn't. But 2 years at 2.9 million is more than I'd have paid for a guy who is rarely healthy, only moderately productive when he is (this ain't no Malkin), and has absolutely ZERO contract leverage.

Just because I mention the contract not being debilitating, it does not mean I said that you said it. Nobody is changing your narrative here. Nobody is misrepresenting you. People just disagree with you. And who is suggesting you're saying the sky is falling? 

GMs make low risk moves with hope of high reward all the time. I'm simply pointing out that the narrative you're putting out there simply does not make this contract an overpayment. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

13 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Just because I mention the contract not being debilitating, it does not mean I said that you said it. Nobody is changing your narrative here. Nobody is misrepresenting you. People just disagree with you. And who is suggesting you're saying the sky is falling? 

GMs make low risk moves with hope of high reward all the time. I'm simply pointing out that the narrative you're putting out there simply does not make this contract an overpayment. 

The contract could have been signed for less and wasn't. I've given my (pretty solid) reasons for thinking so about 25,000 times now. If you choose to equate "high risk, high reward" or "I don't mind this contract" with "fair deal" then that's on you.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Fabbri has only played 66% of his NHL games since his career began. That's BAD. A 3rd line winger who's only gonna give you about 50 games a season should get nowhere near $3 mil.

[krsmith17 7,191]

19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Fabbri has only played 66% of his NHL games since his career began. That's BAD. A 3rd line winger who's only gonna give you about 50 games a season should get nowhere near $3 mil.

Fabbri played 96% of his games last season with the Red Wings. That's GOOD. A middle six winger, who happens to be the team's 4th or 5th best forward, who can give you 78 games, 45ish points a season, is well worth near $3 mil.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Fabbri played 96% of his games last season with the Red Wings. That's GOOD. A middle six winger, who happens to be the team's 4th or 5th best forward, who can give you 78 games, 45ish points a season, is well worth near $3 mil.

Good point. Without this season to boost him he's only played 63% of his NHL games. Yikes.

[krsmith17 7,191]

"Fabbri's contract is bad" is almost as bad a take as "Zadina is a bust"...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

"Fabbri's contract is bad" is almost as bad a take as "Zadina is a bust"...

"I can't defend my point so I just insert 'ppl who don't like Zadina are stupid' into everything"

Smooth my guy

Anyway, Fabbri is basically an injury time-bomb waiting to go off. He has basically every increased risk factor there is for another ACL tear (besides being female). It's really bad to tear your ACL at 25 or younger. Tearing it that young means you have a much higher risk of tearing it again. Couple that with the fact that he didn't just tear his ACL once at this age, he's torn it twice already. Which again significantly increases his chance for a third tear.

And that might all be okay... if you're not a pro athlete. And still you might be okay even then... if you're a pro athlete that doesn't play a contact sport... But he literally does both those things.

It's not a question of whether or not Fabbri will tear his ACL again, it's when. Hopefully not within the next 2 seasons here because the 3rd tear is probably gonna slow him way down. This kid should NEVERRRR be given a contract beyond a few years, if even a few years. And honestly we should try to move him for value before his knee pops again. He's one knee on knee hit or hip check away from a crippling reconstruction surgery.

Fabbri has retired at 29-32 written all over him. This is not a long term asset. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we can still move him before this contract is up. I'm definitely becoming less and less happy with the length of this contract and less so the dollar amount. Yzerman was really dumb to give him two years for this reason and a number of others to boot.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Fabbri stays healthy, puts up 30 pts = good contract

Fabbri explodes, LTIR, no cap hit, Chris Illitch loses pocket change = who gives a ***

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

35 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Fabbri stays healthy, puts up 30 pts = good contract

Fabbri explodes, LTIR, no cap hit, Chris Illitch loses pocket change = who gives a ***

 

Robby cares 91, Robby cares...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Any time I think about pulling the plug on this place I remind myself of the upcoming Torey Krug 7 X 8 deal Yzerman's got lined up.................

[krsmith17 7,191]

53 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"I can't defend my point so I just insert 'ppl who don't like Zadina are stupid' into everything"

Smooth my guy

Nope. No one has defended their point here... It's just been a lot of back and forth about absolutely nothing...

55 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Fabbri stays healthy, puts up 30 pts = good contract

Fabbri explodes, LTIR, no cap hit, Chris Illitch loses pocket change = who gives a ***

Exactly.