2020 Offseason

[kipwinger 8,522]

I'll just leave this here, forgive the sh*tty music in the second one. Not mine.

 

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

https://www.tsn.ca/trade-bait-winnipeg-jets-sniper-patrik-laine-on-the-board-1.1517697

 

...see anything that peaks your interest? I would honestly entertain the idea of Mantha to Montreal for Domi PLUS.  I wonder is Yzerman would show any interest in Killorn? Would you? I'd also consider Matt Murray if Dallas isn't looking to move Bishop. I wonder what we could fleece Holland with for Larsson? We could offer him plenty of "his players"" that he left behind. Rasmussen? Cholowski?

Definitely check out Vince Dunn as well. He's really good, and he's only 23. Very good puck moving d-man. Would love him as a future partner with Seider. I don't see St. Louis trading him, except as a last resort though. I think you'd have to take some bad contracts back (maybe Jake Allen) and I think you'd be paying a premium given Dunn's age and talent.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I've been watching games when I can, its cool to note that there is only TWO teams left in the playoffs that have won a Cup since 2000. Tampa and Colorado...and hopefully Dallas can take care of Colorado tomorrow. That being said, it is pretty cool that there may be a new Cup Champion this season that hasn't won one in a long time, if ever.  But, I cannot wait for this playoff to be over so we can get on this the off-season and The Yzer-Plan.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I've been watching games when I can, its cool to note that there is only TWO teams left in the playoffs that have won a Cup since 2000. Tampa and Colorado...and hopefully Dallas can take care of Colorado tomorrow. That being said, it is pretty cool that there may be a new Cup Champion this season that hasn't won one in a long time, if ever.  But, I cannot wait for this playoff to be over so we can get on this the off-season and The Yzer-Plan.

What are your thoughts on level of play? 

[Akakabuto 1,749]

17 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Definitely check out Vince Dunn as well. He's really good, and he's only 23. Very good puck moving d-man. Would love him as a future partner with Seider. I don't see St. Louis trading him, except as a last resort though. I think you'd have to take some bad contracts back (maybe Jake Allen) and I think you'd be paying a premium given Dunn's age and talent.

Finding that type of a defenseman in that age range between 23 and 26 would be great for our rebuild. We desperately need defensemen that are able to get the puck out of our own zone and find the tape of our forwards. Our transition game is atrocious.    

[LeftWinger 4,953]

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

What are your thoughts on level of play? 

It looks pretty good to me. Of course I did watch the Red Wings all season, so playoff teams are bound to look better. I am SO glad that all of Pitt, Chi, Bos, Nash, Tor are not going to win or are they getting the #1 OA. For this I am happy!  I kind of actually wouldn't mind Tampa winning because at least then we KNOW that Yzerman can build a Champion and he will do it again in Detroit. But I am actually kind of rooting for The Isles, even though they have proven that they didn't need Tavares to get here, it would be such a sock in the eye for him, for them to win a Cup after he dissed them for Toronto.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It looks pretty good to me. Of course I did watch the Red Wings all season, so playoff teams are bound to look better. I am SO glad that all of Pitt, Chi, Bos, Nash, Tor are not going to win or are they getting the #1 OA. For this I am happy!  I kind of actually wouldn't mind Tampa winning because at least then we KNOW that Yzerman can build a Champion and he will do it again in Detroit. But I am actually kind of rooting for The Isles, even though they have proven that they didn't need Tavares to get here, it would be such a sock in the eye for him, for them to win a Cup after he dissed them for Toronto.

Yzerman has never built a Champion.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yzerman has never built a Champion.

He pretty much built that Tampa team, so if they win, then Yzerman deserves credit for his moves and drafts that built that team.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

He pretty much built that Tampa team, so if they win, then Yzerman deserves credit for his moves and drafts that built that team.

Brisebois has made some great moves. Coleman, Bogosian (hard to believe). But yes, Yzerman deserves credit for sure.  

[kipwinger 8,522]

15 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Finding that type of a defenseman in that age range between 23 and 26 would be great for our rebuild. We desperately need defensemen that are able to get the puck out of our own zone and find the tape of our forwards. Our transition game is atrocious.    

Totally agree, having him, Hronek, and Seider in your top four would be a massive advantage for our transition going forward. You'd have a righty (Hronek) and a lefty (Dunn) running your power play units as well. If he's actually on the block I'd be trying really hard to land him.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

He pretty much built that Tampa team, so if they win, then Yzerman deserves credit for his moves and drafts that built that team.

True. But that's a team that's been among the league's best for awhile, with no hardware to show for it. That's on the GM and coaches.

[marcaractac 3,963]

16 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Totally agree, having him, Hronek, and Seider in your top four would be a massive advantage for our transition going forward. You'd have a righty (Hronek) and a lefty (Dunn) running your power play units as well. If he's actually on the block I'd be trying really hard to land him.

Dunn would be a great get. Just don't see why the Blues would ever consider shopping him unless he straight up wants out. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Ya'll realize Dunn is STL's 6th Dman and heavily deployed on the PP... I haven't watched enough STL to have a super good opinion of him - maybe he's some emerging great Dman or something and I just haven't watched enough - but as of today he plays very sheltered minutes, doesn't kill penalties at all, and benefits from being the backup pointman to Pietrangelo on the Blues PP. He's not a workhorse player for that team in the slightest. In fact Berube leaned more heavily on Gunnarson - their 7th Dman - some of the time in these playoffs.

This guy has never jumped off the page at me, but feel free to explain to me what I'm missing, I'm all ears. I think you might trade for a guy like this and quickly come to find he's not all that different than Madison Bowey.

[F.Michael 4,590]

17 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

True. But that's a team that's been among the league's best for awhile, with no hardware to show for it. That's on the GM and coaches.

While I agree with you - in the end the players gotta do their thing.

TB is getting the rest while Philly/NYI continue to slug it out.

Wouldn't mind a TB/Vegas final...Will Stamkos play this summer?

17 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

He pretty much built that Tampa team, so if they win, then Yzerman deserves credit for his moves and drafts that built that team.

Drouin for Sergachev was a brilliant move.

Hopefully Grand Master Y can replicate it if Mantha, and his agent becomes difficult to deal with.

Edited September 2, 2020 by F.Michael

[marcaractac 3,963]

36 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

While I agree with you - in the end the players gotta do their thing.

TB is getting the rest while Philly/NYI continue to slug it out.

Wouldn't mind a TB/Vegas final...Will Stamkos play this summer?

Drouin for Sergachev was a brilliant move.

Hopefully Grand Master Y can replicate it if Mantha, and his agent becomes difficult to deal with.

I just hope he can find more Kucherov's and Point's in the 2nd and third rounds of the draft. 

[kipwinger 8,522]

39 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ya'll realize Dunn is STL's 6th Dman and heavily deployed on the PP... I haven't watched enough STL to have a super good opinion of him - maybe he's some emerging great Dman or something and I just haven't watched enough - but as of today he plays very sheltered minutes, doesn't kill penalties at all, and benefits from being the backup pointman to Pietrangelo on the Blues PP. He's not a workhorse player for that team in the slightest. In fact Berube leaned more heavily on Gunnarson - their 7th Dman - some of the time in these playoffs.

This guy has never jumped off the page at me, but feel free to explain to me what I'm missing, I'm all ears. I think you might trade for a guy like this and quickly come to find he's not all that different than Madison Bowey.

I think with Dunn you'd be paying for his offense, and upside. He can run a powerplay, though obviously not as well as Alex Pietrangelo, he's got very good possession metrics, and at 23 has lots of room to grow. But make no mistake, you're not getting a workhorse. You're getting a high(ish) end left, shooting, offensive defenseman. I just think our left defense is pretty weak after McIsaac so I wouldn't mind an acquisition like that.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I think with Dunn you'd be paying for his offense, and upside. He can run a powerplay, though obviously not as well as Alex Pietrangelo, he's got very good possession metrics, and at 23 has lots of room to grow. But make no mistake, you're not getting a workhorse. You're getting a high(ish) end left, shooting, offensive defenseman. I just think our left defense is pretty weak after McIsaac so I wouldn't mind an acquisition like that.

He's about to be 24 and certainly has some room to grow yet. I just have no clue what the ceiling is there. And I am always gonna be wary of a guy on a good team, who's playing Alex Biega minutes, and the PP. I think a kid like that might come here under our circumstances and get exposed as unreliable pretty quickly. He'd have to be paired with a very reliable workhorse like Hronek or Seider I would think. But that means possibly playing much bigger minutes, something he's never done in his 200+ game NHL career.

[kipwinger 8,522]

21 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

He's about to be 24 and certainly has some room to grow yet. I just have no clue what the ceiling is there. And I am always gonna be wary of a guy on a good team, who's playing Alex Biega minutes, and the PP. I think a kid like that might come here under our circumstances and get exposed as unreliable pretty quickly. He'd have to be paired with a very reliable workhorse like Hronek or Seider I would think. But that means possibly playing much bigger minutes, something he's never done in his 200+ game NHL career.

All very valid points, but I think a big part of his playing down lineup has more to do with how stacked St. Louis is on defense. He'd have to dislodge one of Pietrangelo, Paryako, Scandella, or Faulk in order to gain more playing time. He's sorta lost in the mix with a bunch of other guys on the 3rd pair, but I don't think that's as much about his talent as it is about his age and how coaches tend to value veterans over youth in the playoffs.

I'm not saying the kid is going to be the second coming of Brian Rafalski, but he seems like a candidate for a bigger role in Detroit.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Drouin for Sergachev was a brilliant move.

Hopefully Grand Master Y can replicate it if Mantha, and his agent becomes difficult to deal with.

That's why Mantha for Romanov, plus, could work... I think Mantha is better than Drouin, and I'm not sure Romanov will be as good as Sergachev, but depending on what else is included, it could be worth considering...

58 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I just hope he can find more Kucherov's and Point's in the 2nd and third rounds of the draft. 

Point never should have lasted until the 2nd round, let alone the 3rd. He was dominating the WHL for three plus seasons, but he was undersized, so teams were wary... I think most teams have learned their lesson on that, and even in the last 5 years, the league has changed a lot, benefiting the small, skilled players. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

All very valid points, but I think a big part of his playing down lineup has more to do with how stacked St. Louis is on defense. He'd have to dislodge one of Pietrangelo, Paryako, Scandella, or Faulk in order to gain more playing time. He's sorta lost in the mix with a bunch of other guys on the 3rd pair, but I don't think that's as much about his talent as it is about his age and how coaches tend to value veterans over youth in the playoffs.

I'm not saying the kid is going to be the second coming of Brian Rafalski, but he seems like a candidate for a bigger role in Detroit.

Certainly. He's stuck behind a lot of very established and capable vets. Could be a Fabbri situation... or he could just not be that good. I honestly dont know. Im a little discouraged that he doesnt kill penalties and that Berube went with Gunnarson when he needed another PKer in the playoffs. But if he can score 40+points hey that would be good.

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Certainly. He's stuck behind a lot of very established and capable vets. Could be a Fabbri situation... or he could just not be that good. I honestly dont know. Im a little discouraged that he doesnt kill penalties and that Berube went with Gunnarson when he needed another PKer in the playoffs. But if he can score 40+points hey that would be good.

I don't know a ton about St. Louis' system so I'm taking a flier here, but for the most part you only have one defenseman on the PK and St. Louis has Paryako and Scandella filling those roles. They're both excellent PKers.

I'd be looking at Dunn for his offense though. Seems like we've got really good defenders in Seider and McIsaac and Hronek has all around ability, but we don't really have a guy who can put up big points from the back end. Dunn probably can do that, and I think it's encouraging that he's playing regular minutes on a Stanley Cup contender at 23. Probably not a complete liability if that's the case.

To me the only real question is whether Detroit is convinced that Cholowski can figure things out defensively or not. He clearly has the same offensive upside, but if the front office thinks he can't figure it out on the back end then maybe they move on from him as their left side offensive guy.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't know a ton about St. Louis' system so I'm taking a flier here, but for the most part you only have one defenseman on the PK and St. Louis has Paryako and Scandella filling those roles. They're both excellent PKers.

I'd be looking at Dunn for his offense though. Seems like we've got really good defenders in Seider and McIsaac and Hronek has all around ability, but we don't really have a guy who can put up big points from the back end. Dunn probably can do that, and I think it's encouraging that he's playing regular minutes on a Stanley Cup contender at 23. Probably not a complete liability if that's the case.

To me the only real question is whether Detroit is convinced that Cholowski can figure things out defensively or not. He clearly has the same offensive upside, but if the front office thinks he can't figure it out on the back end then maybe they move on from him as their left side offensive guy.

Do a straight up Dunn for Cholowski swap. I would have no problem with that. Dunn certainly couldnt be worse than Cholo.

[kipwinger 8,522]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Do a straight up Dunn for Cholowski swap. I would have no problem with that. Dunn certainly couldnt be worse than Cholo.

I think it's irrelevant now anyway. St. Louis just traded Jake Allen to Montreal. They'll have no trouble signing Pietrangelo now.

[Akakabuto 1,749]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I think it's irrelevant now anyway. St. Louis just traded Jake Allen to Montreal. They'll have no trouble signing Pietrangelo now.

Marc Bergevin works in mysterious ways.

[kipwinger 8,522]

13 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Marc Bergevin works in mysterious ways.

I actually think that Bergevin is a sneaky good GM. He's especially good at trades.