2020 Offseason

[krsmith17 7,191]

31 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Production is pretty important for top6 forwards. Domi brings a lot of intangibles himself as well.

Absolutely, but it's certainly not everything either. There's a reason 98% of Habs fans and 2% of Red Wings fans are in favor of that trade...

25 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Because he and his agent probably see: future 35-40 goal scorer 

and Yzerman sees: oft injured soon-to-be 26 year old that has never breached 25 goals  in one season

That sounds like every negotiation between player / agent - GM ever... Does not equal hold out.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To MTL: Zadina

To DET: Domi + Romanov

To MTL Habs Discussion Forum: @ChristopherReevesLegs + @mackel

To LGWs: some kid from Laval with zits and an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt

I could live with this. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

There's a reason 98% of Habs fans and 2% of Red Wings fans are in favor of that trade...

Oh yeah. Where'd you pull this poll from?

8 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

To MTL Habs Discussion Forum: @ChristopherReevesLegs + @mackel

To LGWs: some kid from Laval with zits and an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt

I could live with this. 

c'est la vie

Edited September 4, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Oh yeah. Where'd you pull this poll from?

The interweb, obviously...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

The interweb, obviously...

yeah where

[kipwinger 8,521]

50 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Because he and his agent probably see: future 35-40 goal scorer 

and Yzerman sees: oft injured soon-to-be 26 year old that has never breached 25 goals  in one season

This is an interesting dynamic that I totally agree will define the remainder of Mantha's time in Detroit. There's basically no way in hell that he should be getting paid more than Larkin right? Larkin gets paid 6.1 million AAV and outperforms Mantha in every single way possible. But you also get the feeling that Mantha isn't going to be okay with anything below 6 million AAV.  Normally you'd bridge this gap with a short term deal to let Mantha prove he's the 35 goal, 70+ point winger he thinks he is (but hasn't been so far) but the team probably balks at that because they'd lose control of him at the end of it. Ideally they'd rather lock him up longer term.

This is by no means an easy contract negotiation. I'm guessing he'll get about 3 years, 6 million AAV, but that's a super risky contract.

Edited September 4, 2020 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Imagine Domi and Bertuzzi on the same team.

+10 attitude
+20 swagger

[kipwinger 8,521]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Imagine Domi and Bertuzzi on the same team.

+10 attitude
+20 swagger

Can we get Josh Anderson to be the other winger on that line?

[Dabura 12,207]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be okay with acquiring a Danault caliber player via free agency, or a younger version Danault caliber player via trade, but I have no interest in giving up assets for 27 year old Phillip Danault. There are other options available. Besides, I highly doubt Montreal are shopping him.

True, I don't know that Bergevin has or will have any appetite for moving Danault. But the argument could be made that it's starting to get a little crowded at center on that team (Danault, Suzuki, Domi, Kotkaniemi). If Danault's being a bit of a malcontent, maybe Bergevin decides to trade him and sign a UFA replacement.

For us, it'd make sense to look for a Danault type in UFAgency. I agree with that. ...Sort of. My hangup is that I really like Danault. I don't think of him as a bottom-sixer, I think of him as a borderline-Selke-caliber rock who can be hard-matched against top talent every night and still put up 45+ points.

*shrug*

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

True, I don't know that Bergevin has or will have any appetite for moving Danault. But the argument could be made that it's starting to get a little crowded at center on that team (Danault, Suzuki, Domi, Kotkaniemi). If Danault's being a bit of a malcontent, maybe Bergevin decides to trade him and sign a UFA replacement.

I'm confused. Has there been any rumors of Danault being unhappy or wanting out of Montreal? I mean, I would have to assume he was a huge Habs fan growing up, and I would also assume that the Montreal Canadièns would want to keep the local, French speaking center over any of the other guys mentioned.

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

For us, it'd make sense to look for a Danault type in UFAgency. I agree with that. ...Sort of. My hangup is that I really like Danault. I don't think of him as a bottom-sixer, I think of him as a borderline-Selke-caliber rock who can be hard-matched against top talent every night and still put up 45+ points.

*shrug*

This is exactly what I think / hope Veleno will be in a few years.

I'm not for trading away any assets for any 27+ year old veterans. Those are available via free agency.

[Dabura 12,207]

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm confused. Has there been any rumors of Danault being unhappy or wanting out of Montreal? I mean, I would have to assume he was a huge Habs fan growing up, and I would also assume that the Montreal Canadièns would want to keep the local, French speaking center over any of the other guys mentioned.

Some people in Habs Land are seizing on things Danault said after the Habs were eliminated. They were basically nothing comments, but it's Montreal, so people are talking about Danault now.

https://www.spectorshockey.net/2020/08/nhl-rumor-mill-august-31-2020/

I don't think he's unhappy in Montreal and I doubt Bergevin considers him expendable. But, like I said, their center depth chart is looking a little crowded. That could be a problem for Bergevin if Danault wants to be guaranteed top-six minutes and get paid like a Selke-caliber 2C instead of a Selke-caliber 3C. So, Danault is more expendable now than he was at the start of this season.

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This is exactly what I think / hope Veleno will be in a few years.

Right, but we can't wait. I'm saying we need that player *now*.

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not for trading away any assets for any 27+ year old veterans. Those are available via free agency.

Count the number of 27-year-old borderline-Selke-caliber guys on this list:

Nugent-Hopkins fits that profile. But 1) I doubt Holland lets him go, and 2) we'd probably have to pay out the ass to lure him to Detroit.

Granlund is a good player, but not a centerman's centerman. The Preds have to part with either him or Craig Smith (who's a full-time winger, not a centerman) and it's probably going to be Smith. I think we should sign Smith, but with the understanding that he's a winger.

Soderberg and Namestnikov are not guys I'd feel comfortable hard-matching against top talent.

Haula's a big question mark; I don't know what he is at this point in his career. Not even sure he's a true centerman.

Mmmmmmaybe Janmark?

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 hours ago, Dabura said:

Some people in Habs Land are seizing on things Danault said after the Habs were eliminated. They were basically nothing comments, but it's Montreal, so people are talking about Danault now.

I don't think he's unhappy in Montreal and I doubt Bergevin considers him expendable. But, like I said, their center depth chart is looking a little crowded. That could be a problem for Bergevin if Danault wants to be guaranteed top-six minutes and get paid like a Selke-caliber 2C instead of a Selke-caliber 3C. So, Danault is more expendable now than he was at the start of this season.

Fair enough, I guess. I just think IF the Habs are looking to trade Danault (I don't think they should / will), it would be because he's the oldest of the bunch, and could probably fetch a pretty solid return in futures. And for that exact reason, I don't think the Wings (another rebuilding team), should be the team acquiring him.

21 hours ago, Dabura said:

Right, but we can't wait. I'm saying we need that player *now*.

I don't really agree, but IF we do need that player right now, like I said, I think it should come via free agency. Acquiring a soon-to-be 28 year old center for prospects / picks would be a terrible move for this team right now in my opinion.

I don't think we should be giving up any future assets for players that will not be part of this team on the other side of the rebuild. That includes Danault.

21 hours ago, Dabura said:

Count the number of 27-year-old borderline-Selke-caliber guys on this list:

Nugent-Hopkins fits that profile. But 1) I doubt Holland lets him go, and 2) we'd probably have to pay out the ass to lure him to Detroit.

Granlund is a good player, but not a centerman's centerman. The Preds have to part with either him or Craig Smith (who's a full-time winger, not a centerman) and it's probably going to be Smith. I think we should sign Smith, but with the understanding that he's a winger.

Soderberg and Namestnikov are not guys I'd feel comfortable hard-matching against top talent.

Haula's a big question mark; I don't know what he is at this point in his career. Not even sure he's a true centerman.

Mmmmmmaybe Janmark?

Why is Nugent-Hopkins on that list? He still has a year left, and yes, he would cost way too much via trade. Even more so than Danault.

I don't think adding another center is a must, but if we determine that Filppula can no longer hack it as a 2C, and we want to bridge the gap for another year before we promote Veleno / Rasmussen, then we should sign any one of those players mentioned above to another 2 year stop-gap, ala Fil / Nemeth last offseason.

OR make a trade for a young (under 24 year old) center, that could grow with the rest of the young players on this team, and be a part of it beyond the rebuild.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:14 PM, Dabura said:

We need legit center help and we need it yesterday, even if the plan is to suck.

Veleno's coming off a could've-been-better AHL rookie season. I don't know when he's going to be ready. I certainly don't know when or if he's going to be as good an NHL centerman as Danault. Danault's a low-key outstanding veteran shutdown centerman:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/danauph01-advanced-ev.html

Add Danault and Larkin's life immediately becomes much easier. Which, in theory, means we score more goals and allow fewer goals.

Send the Habs Fabbri + pick/prospect for Danault. Sign Craig Smith and maybe also take a flier on Alex Galchenyuk, who actually performed pretty well in his short stint with the Wild.

Bertuzzi -- Larkin -- Mantha
Zadina -- Danault -- Smith
x -- (Galchenyuk?) -- x
x -- x -- x

That's a respectable top six/seven for a team that's trying to pick itself up off the floor and claw its way back to respectability. AND it means we don't necessarily have to hope and pray that Veleno or Rasmussen becomes a legit middle-six centerman before Larkin dies of exhaustion. AND, on top of all that, we're likely drafting a forward at 4th overall.

On the back end...I'd like to add T.J. Brodie, but I doubt he'd sign with us unless it's a huge overpayment. So sign Brenden Dillon, assuming he'd be cheaper.

Dillon -- Hronek
DeKeyser -- Seider
Nemeth -- Bowey

In net...flip a pick/prospect for Igor Shesterkin and see what he can do.

There. I just constructed a (theoretically) competitive 2020-21 Wings roster that doesn't feature a single blockbuster addition. For my next, less impressive trick, I will turn water into wine...

Meh ... id rather target someone like haula in free agency for a short 1-2 year deal to fill in the gap , danault isnt a top 6 guy he was utlized in that spot in mtl cause they didnt have a 2c i think if in 3-4 years danault was still in detroit as a 2C we’d still be a terrible hockey team and i dont want to envision that lol

Plus trading assets (yes , even fabbri) for a guy whos a 3c with where we’re at is not smart and if we resigned him hed probably want around 5-5.5 and its a contract we’d regret

i think even brassard is a free agent C this year ... just someone decent we can get x1 or 2 and can deal at the deadline easily for more assets 

At d someone short term x 1 or 2 to flip as well like a gudas,schultz,vatanen ... like galchenyuk to flip as well

Can forget shestyorkin , zero chance hes  being dealt 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Bertuzzi larkin mantha

Fabbri haula zadina

Svechnikov rasmussen galchenyuk

Smith nielsen glendening

ehn timashov extra forwards

 

Dekeyser hronek

vatanen seider

Cholowski gudas

lindstrom 

 

bernier 

khudobin

 

vatanen probably wont happen but hes  been dealing with injuries so id offer a high enough salary  in 5 mill x1 and hope he takes it so we can hopefully be able to deal him at the deadline for assets 

galchenyuk x1 so he hopefully has a good enough season so we can deal him 

khudobin,haula  and gudas x2 so there short enough where we can again flip at the deadline or deal them for the 2022 deadline 

Likely wont happen but id be looking hard to deal filppula and helm and make room for the kids ... id be ok with keeping nemeth for the 2021 deadline but id be trying to deal him to a contender and eat 50% off now and get a good return back and try and replace him with a free asset like a gudas so we can possibly deal him at a later time

 

Id also deal or walk away from erne,perlini,bowey,hirose as i cant see them being here longterm with whats coming next few seasons ... Cholowski,Svechnikov and smith are 22-23 i believe and its time to see what we have , for svech i want to see him play with actual linemates for like 25 games rather than on a 4th line with glendening playing check hockey before we decide hes a bust for sure and move on from him

Timashov and ehn battle it out for the 13 spot and I personally couldnt care less who stays , i think neither will be here in 2-3 yrs 

Its time to bring in some youth , if were gonna be horrible i want to see our future play and as for our past , no i didnt forget abdelkader ... shove him in the ahl for three years its time he goes

C’est tout

Edited September 6, 2020 by nyqvististhefuture

[Dabura 12,207]

18 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Fair enough, I guess. I just think IF the Habs are looking to trade Danault (I don't think they should / will), it would be because he's the oldest of the bunch, and could probably fetch a pretty solid return in futures. And for that exact reason, I don't think the Wings (another rebuilding team), should be the team acquiring him.

I don't really agree, but IF we do need that player right now, like I said, I think it should come via free agency. Acquiring a soon-to-be 28 year old center for prospects / picks would be a terrible move for this team right now in my opinion.

I don't think we should be giving up any future assets for players that will not be part of this team on the other side of the rebuild. That includes Danault.

Why is Nugent-Hopkins on that list? He still has a year left, and yes, he would cost way too much via trade. Even more so than Danault.

I don't think adding another center is a must, but if we determine that Filppula can no longer hack it as a 2C, and we want to bridge the gap for another year before we promote Veleno / Rasmussen, then we should sign any one of those players mentioned above to another 2 year stop-gap, ala Fil / Nemeth last offseason.

OR make a trade for a young (under 24 year old) center, that could grow with the rest of the young players on this team, and be a part of it beyond the rebuild.

Good call on Nugent-Hopkins. Shame on me for not catching it. But, yeah, point still stands: He's not a realistic option.

I'm not prepared to die on this Danault hill. Or maybe I am. I don't know. I may be overselling Danault a bit, but I think you and @nyqvististhefuture are undervaluing him a bit. Dude's done yeoman's work as a 1C on some offense-starved Habs teams. He's a centerman's centerman. A possession beast. A playmaker who makes his linemates better. A guy who can handle tough matchups.

It May Be Time for the Montreal Canadiens to Move Phillip Danault [Last Word On Hockey]

Quote

Danault has been outstanding for the Canadiens during the last few years. Stylistically, he has been compared to Patrice Bergeron and many felt he was snub by not being nominated for the Selke Trophy this season. Danault has been part of one of the most productive lines in hockey in between Tomas Tatar and Brendan Gallagher. The line has been a possession beast for the Canadiens. However, Danault saw young star Nick Suzuki take over that role during the playoffs, pushing Danault down to the third line in between Artturi Lehkonen and Paul Byron. A role Danault says he’s not ready for yet.

Quote

Unfortunately for Danault, he might not have a choice. Suzuki and Kotkaniemi played magnificently during the Canadiens Stanley Cup Playoff appearance. They were arguably the Canadiens top two forwards, which has Habs fans as well as management extremely excited about the future.

Check out the CF% and the corresponding Zone Starts splits:

That's beautiful. That's crack cocaine. I want that centering our second line. Imagine if Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha could be freed up *even just a little bit* more to spend *even just a little bit* more time beating up on other teams' secondary and tertiary players.

Filppula sucks. He's a 4C, if that. Nielsen didn't score this season, but his usage was absolutely brutal, so he gets a bit of a pass from me -- but, even so, he's absolutely not a 2C. Glendening is not a 2C. I'm not expecting Veleno to become a really solid 2C within the next couple of years. Danault makes us better now, gives us a 1-2 punch at center for two or three years (if we can extend him), takes some of the pressure off of our prospect centermen (if we extend him).

Maybe the ask for Danault is way too high. In which case, forget it. Maybe the ask is reasonable but he doesn't want to agree to an immediate extension, in which case he's possibly just a rental. In which case, forget it. All I'm really saying is that Yzerman should be kicking these tires.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm not prepared to die on this Danault hill. Or maybe I am. I don't know. I may be overselling Danault a bit, but I think you and @nyqvististhefuture are undervaluing him a bit. Dude's done yeoman's work as a 1C on some offense-starved Habs teams. He's a centerman's centerman. A possession beast. A playmaker who makes his linemates better. A guy who can handle tough matchups.

I'm not undervaluing Danault as a player at all. I think he's is a solid 2C, but his age and contract don't match up with where we are in our rebuild. If he were 4-5 years younger, or we were finished our rebuild, and just needed to fill that one hole at 2C to become a contender, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, we're nowhere close to that. We're anywhere from 2-5 years away, depending on who you talk to, and like I mentioned, I believe we have a similar caliber player already in the system, who coule be as good or better, in 2-5 years.

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

I want that centering our second line. Imagine if Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha could be freed up *even just a little bit* more to spend *even just a little bit* more time beating up on other teams' secondary and tertiary players.

I want this. I just don't want a short term fix, at the expense of future assets.

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Filppula sucks. He's a 4C, if that. Nielsen didn't score this season, but his usage was absolutely brutal, so he gets a bit of a pass from me -- but, even so, he's absolutely not a 2C. Glendening is not a 2C. I'm not expecting Veleno to become a really solid 2C within the next couple of years. Danault makes us better now, gives us a 1-2 punch at center for two or three years (if we can extend him), takes some of the pressure off of our prospect centermen (if we extend him).

I agree with this, except that I think Filppula is better than Nielsen.

I have zero interest in giving up assets for two or three years of a player, especially when the drop off from some of the players that could be available in free agency, isn't that drastic.

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Maybe the ask for Danault is way too high. In which case, forget it. Maybe the ask is reasonable but he doesn't want to agree to an immediate extension, in which case he's possibly just a rental. In which case, forget it. All I'm really saying is that Yzerman should be kicking these tires.

Sure, kick the tires. If Yzerman isn't kicking the tires, he isn't doing his job. However, if it's anything more than a 3rd round pick (it would be), I wouldn't do it. Bergevin would probably be looking for a high end prospect and a pick. That, I'm not willing to give up. Or maybe he'd be looking for a one-for-one trade for a similarly skilled, similar age player of a different position. That, we don't have.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

To DET: Danault

To MTL: Veleno + 2nd

[mackel 679]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To DET: Danault

To MTL: Veleno + 2nd

Yikes... holy overpayment batman.  Hard no.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, mackel said:

Yikes... holy overpayment batman.  Hard no.

I don't really think it's much of an overpayment. It's probably right around what a player like Danault would garner in a trade. However, it would be beyond stupid for a rebuilding team, such as the Red Wings to pay that price for a 28 year old with one year remaining (possible rental). For a 20 year old top prospects, that has a good chance to be as good as the player we're trading for, by the time we're in our window, plus a 2nd round pick. So yeah, HARD No!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, mackel said:

Yikes... holy overpayment batman.  Hard no.

To DET: Danault + Romanov

To MTL: Zadina

[Dabura 12,207]

On 9/7/2020 at 11:06 AM, krsmith17 said:

I'm not undervaluing Danault as a player at all. I think he's is a solid 2C, but his age and contract don't match up with where we are in our rebuild. If he were 4-5 years younger, or we were finished our rebuild, and just needed to fill that one hole at 2C to become a contender, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, we're nowhere close to that. We're anywhere from 2-5 years away, depending on who you talk to, and like I mentioned, I believe we have a similar caliber player already in the system, who coule be as good or better, in 2-5 years.

I just feel like this is an overly passive way to approach things, given the season this team just had. I feel like it's setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy. "We're supposed to suck, so let's suck. If we don't want to hardcore suck, maybe Yzerman can sign some UFA 3C who sucks and we can tell ourselves Yzerman tried, c'est la vie. Gotta wait for Veleno. Can't get older. Can only get younger. Can't worry about the here and now. Eyes on the horizon."

Like, I get it. But I also don't. Why not ice a really good top-six forward group right now? Why not see what this team can do with a borderline-Selke-caliber centerman slotted behind Larkin on the depth chart?

Let's score some goals.

Let's allow fewer goals against.

Let's learn good habits.

Let's get these players and the fans feeling better about themselves and the direction of the team.

Let's get that dopamine and those endorphins going.

Let's get some veteran leaders who don't suck and don't see this gig as a comfy retirement plan.

Let's take some of that crushing weight off of our (unofficial) captain's shoulders so he can perform better and feel better about himself and not be breaking sticks behind the bench out of overwhelming frustration.

Let's figure out what we really have in our winger group. (Possibly a little late for that now with Mantha and Bertuzzi set to get paid, but still).

Let's get back to that whole winning culture thing.

Let's get people buying in again.

Let's get people believing again.

On 9/7/2020 at 11:06 AM, krsmith17 said:

I agree with this, except that I think Filppula is better than Nielsen.

I disagree! (Sort of!) (Meh!)

2019-20 Filppula

• CF% (EV) = 44.3
• CF% Rel (EV) = -2.6
• Zone Starts (EV) = O 49.3 / D 50.7

2019-20 Nielsen

• CF% (EV) = 45.1
• CF% Rel (EV) = -1.7
• Zone Starts (EV) = O 39.3 / D 60.7 (!!!)

Nielsen was basically deployed like Glendening. Nielsen's clearly still a nice defensive player -- but, physically, his body isn't at all suited for a hardcore checking role. That's why he gets ragdolled every night. That's why he's been dealing with injury problems.

I can't really fault Blashill for deploying Nielsen the way he did this season. Blashill was given a roster with one legitimate top-six centerman. Only one. Exactly one. One more than zero. One less than two. One. Only one.

And that's the problem.

With the luxury of hindsight, I can tell you that that's no way to construct a team, even one that's built to finish in last place. You've gotta give your troops a chance to win every night. You can't just hang them out to dry. You've gotta provide them with some genuine help, players who can lift them up and not just take up space.

Lesson learned (I would hope). Get these players some real, genuine, bona fide help.

On 9/7/2020 at 11:06 AM, krsmith17 said:

I have zero interest in giving up assets for two or three years of a player, especially when the drop off from some of the players that could be available in free agency, isn't that drastic.

I would say the dropoff is pretty drastic. Granlund's basically a winger. Haula's not necessarily a full-time centerman, and he's dealt with some serious injury problems. He was not good in his stint with the Panthers. There's a whole lot of meh on that UFA list.

Danault is, functionally, pretty much Larkin; he can eat really tough matchups and keep his head above water. Tatar--Danault--Gallagher was an outstanding line for the Habs. If we put Danault between, say, Zadina and Craig Smith (we need some good veterans and we need some right-handed shots), we potentially have two monster lines, largely because each one would be centered by a two-way workhorse, which means the lines could trade tough matchup responsibilities as Blashill sees fit, which in turn means either line potentially could victimize other teams' lesser talent on a near-nightly basis.

As Danault gets closer to 30, Veleno, Rasmussen, Rossi/Perfetti close in on becoming legit NHL centermen. I don't see the problem. If anything, it's problematic to expect Veleno to become a borderline-Selke-caliber centerman. It's a possibility, but I wouldn't count on it. And if we're adding, say, Rossi, we're adding someone who projects out as a better NHLer than Veleno anyway.

On 9/7/2020 at 11:06 AM, krsmith17 said:

Sure, kick the tires. If Yzerman isn't kicking the tires, he isn't doing his job. However, if it's anything more than a 3rd round pick (it would be), I wouldn't do it. Bergevin would probably be looking for a high end prospect and a pick. That, I'm not willing to give up. Or maybe he'd be looking for a one-for-one trade for a similarly skilled, similar age player of a different position. That, we don't have.

Fabbri + Rasmussen.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I just feel like this is an overly passive way to approach things, given the season this team just had. I feel like it's setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy. "We're supposed to suck, so let's suck. If we don't want to hardcore suck, maybe Yzerman can sign some UFA 3C who sucks and we can tell ourselves Yzerman tried, c'est la vie. Gotta wait for Veleno. Can't get older. Can only get younger. Can't worry about the here and now. Eyes on the horizon."

Like, I get it. But I also don't. Why not ice a really good top-six forward group right now? Why not see what this team can do with a borderline-Selke-caliber centerman slotted behind Larkin on the depth chart?

I don't want this team to suck, but that's the reality right now. We need to be patient, and do this rebuild the right way. No quick fixes. No shortcuts. 

We do need to get younger, and we shouldn't be mortgaging the future for older players.

This team is going to improve on last season. How can they not? Gradual improvements will turn into much bigger rewards.

16 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I would say the dropoff is pretty drastic. Granlund's basically a winger. Haula's not necessarily a full-time centerman, and he's dealt with some serious injury problems. He was not good in his stint with the Panthers. There's a whole lot of meh on that UFA list.

Fair enough. I just don't see the payoff outweighing the cost here.

As a rebuilding team, I would take a good center that we can potentially flip for more assets, that doesn't cost anything other than cap space, over a very good center, that would likely be a rental (could also flip), that costs multiple assets.

20 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Danault is, functionally, pretty much Larkin; he can eat really tough matchups and keep his head above water. Tatar--Danault--Gallagher was an outstanding line for the Habs. If we put Danault between, say, Zadina and Craig Smith (we need some good veterans and we need some right-handed shots), we potentially have two monster lines, largely because each one would be centered by a two-way workhorse, which means the lines could trade tough matchup responsibilities as Blashill sees fit, which in turn means either line potentially could victimize other teams' lesser talent on a near-nightly basis.

If Danault is as good as you seem to believe, he's going to cost a LOT, which I personally wouldn't be comfortable paying.

22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Fabbri + Rasmussen.

Hell No!

I wouldn't give up two young, middle six (potentially top six) centers / wingers for one older top six center.

Again, if we're at all close to contending, these are the types of trades you make. Not in the midst of a rebuild...

[chaps80 1,591]

On 8/31/2020 at 10:17 AM, LeftWinger said:

I think Dallas will shop Bishop and re-sign Khudobin. Going back to my thoughts on that, Yzerman should take 100% of that contract and their 1st round pick. We have the space, we need to solidify the G position. No guarantee Bernier won't go back to pre-January Bernier. Having Bishop for the next three years will only help us. I know he has a NMC, but we know they can be waived. Detroit might not be his best option for winning, but it might be his best option for playing, plus his history with Yzerman helps too.

I doubt he waives his NMC to go to Detroit. Keep in mind he's never won a Cup yet. I figure Khudobin will be the one moving on. Not sure if Stevie could even attract him to Detroit..i'm keeping my expectations low in regards to any goaltender he picks up. 

As for solidifying the goaltending position for years to come...ASKAROV!!

Edited September 8, 2020 by chaps80

[chaps80 1,591]

On 8/31/2020 at 8:34 AM, kipwinger said:

Remember Franzen? Or Stephen Weiss?

Edit: Also, Helm had a series of groin pulls and a broken collarbone. Kronwall broke his leg. All those injuries heal 100% and are not even close to as bad as blowing out an ACL...twice. That's a MUCH more significant injury.

I miss Franzen. Career cut short, not his fault. Weiss just sucked, never got his s*** together.

[mackel 679]

13 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To DET: Danault + Romanov

To MTL: Zadina

I'm down lol