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ChristopherReevesLegs

2C Options

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Yzerman has to add a 2C right?

We've been searching for one since young Fil left the team in 2013. First it was Weiss, then Nielsen, now Filppula again. All experiments failed.

Now are choices behind Larkin seem to be Filppula, Nielsen, Ehn, Glendening, and possibly Gagner. I think it's universally agreed all 4 are awful choices for a 2C.

Veleno and Rasmussen are promising (and possibly our 1st rounder this year) but none are likely ready to fill that roll yet.

So here's some options Yzerman has in UFA:

  • Ryan Nugent Hopkins - coming off $6 mil ---- 27 yo - 61 pts in 65 games
  • Mikael Granlund ------- coming off $5.75 mil - 28 yo - 30 pts in 63 games
  • Alex Galchenyuk ------- coming off $4.9 mil -- 26 yo - 24 pts in 59 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Carl Soderberg -------- coming off $4.75 mil - 35 yo - 35 pts in 70 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Craig Smith ------------- coming off $4.25 mil - 31 yo - 31 pts in 69 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Slava Namestnikov --- coming off $4 mil ------ 28 yo - 35 pts in 65 games (former Yzerman player)
  • Sam Gagner ----------- coming off $3.15 mil -- 31 yo - 13 pts in 42 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Erik Haula -------------- coming off $2.75 mil -- 30 yo - 24 pts in 48 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Colin Wilson ----------- coming off $2.6 mil ---- 31 yo - (injured) prior season had 27 pts in 65 games
  • Mattias Janmark ------ coming off $2.3 mil ---- 27 yo - 21 pts in 62 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Derrick Brassard ----- coming off $1.2 mil ---- 33 yo - 32 pts in 66 games

Honorable mentions: Mikko Koivu, Joe Thornton, Tyler Ennis

Unfortunately quality options are extremely limited. I had to stretch a bit and include players that seem to play mostly wing now. I think the obvious names to target are: RNH, Granlund, Namestnikov, Haula, and Brassard... and realistically I don't think we have a shot at RNH or Haula. But on (hopefully) short term deals Granlund, Namestnikov, or Brassard could be some viable options.

EDIT: credit to @Akakabuto RNH is not UFA this year

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yzerman has to add a 2C right?

We've been searching for one since young Fil left the team in 2013. First it was Weiss, then Nielsen, now Filppula again. All experiments failed.

Now are choices behind Larkin seem to be Filppula, Nielsen, Ehn, Glendening, and possibly Gagner. I think it's universally agreed all 4 are awful choices for a 2C.

Veleno and Rasmussen are promising (and possibly our 1st rounder this year) but none are likely ready to fill that roll yet.

So here's some options Yzerman has in UFA:

  • Ryan Nugent Hopkins - coming off $6 mil ---- 27 yo - 61 pts in 65 games
  • Mikael Granlund ------- coming off $5.75 mil - 28 yo - 30 pts in 63 games
  • Alex Galchenyuk ------- coming off $4.9 mil -- 26 yo - 24 pts in 59 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Carl Soderberg -------- coming off $4.75 mil - 35 yo - 35 pts in 70 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Craig Smith ------------- coming off $4.25 mil - 31 yo - 31 pts in 69 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Slava Namestnikov --- coming off $4 mil ------ 28 yo - 35 pts in 65 games (former Yzerman player)
  • Sam Gagner ----------- coming off $3.15 mil -- 31 yo - 13 pts in 42 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Erik Haula -------------- coming off $2.75 mil -- 30 yo - 24 pts in 48 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Colin Wilson ----------- coming off $2.6 mil ---- 31 yo - (injured) prior season had 27 pts in 65 games
  • Mattias Janmark ------ coming off $2.3 mil ---- 27 yo - 21 pts in 62 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Derrick Brassard ----- coming off $1.2 mil ---- 33 yo - 32 pts in 66 games

Honorable mentions: Mikko Koivu, Joe Thornton, Tyler Ennis

Unfortunately quality options are extremely limited. I had to stretch a bit and include players that seem to play mostly wing now. I think the obvious names to target are: RNH, Granlund, Namestnikov, Haula, and Brassard... and realistically I don't think we have a shot at RNH or Haula. But on (hopefully) short term deals Granlund, Namestnikov, or Brassard could be some viable options.

EDIT: credit to @Akakabuto RNH is not UFA this year

I'd maybe take a flier on Mikhail Grigorenko out of the KHL.  First stint in the NHL was "meh" but he's since really found his game playing for the KHL champion CSKA Moscow club as a 1st line center.  He's a big boy with silky mitts who is only 25 years old.  Didn't play with enough pace in his first NHL stint, but maybe he's coming around a bit.

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2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'd maybe take a flier on Mikhail Grigorenko out of the KHL.  First stint in the NHL was "meh" but he's since really found his game playing for the KHL champion CSKA Moscow club as a 1st line center.  He's a big boy with silky mitts who is only 25 years old.  Didn't play with enough pace in his first NHL stint, but maybe he's coming around a bit.

Read somewhere that the leafs were prying on him. 

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I've done a lot of thinking on this over the past couple of months and my conclusion is we're probably f***ed re: the 2C slot -- and that that's probably ok ("ok"), cuz we're probably destined to suck next season anyway.

I'm thinking Nielsen might retire this summer. Flip, I dunno, whatever. Maybe Rasmussen overachieves. Veleno isn't ready.

Of the UFA options, I think I might like Soderberg the best, assuming we're just looking for a stopgap veteran. Maybe Yzerman goes outside the box and thinks a Euro like Fredrik Handemark could work.

Speaking of outside the box ideas...what if clubs are in fact gifted a compliance buyout or two this summer? There was some talk about that a couple weeks ago. Didn't really dig into it, but I'm assuming it's maybe kinda sorta on the table. So, like, what if Nashville buys out Turris?

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34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yes

I mean, he does kinda suck. He's a scorer who doesn't score much lately. Borderline washed up. BUT, we all know forward pairings are all the rage with coaches these days, and Turris & Mantha seemed to show legit chemistry at the worlds. It'd be dope if we could get two solid lines out of a Bertuzzi-Larkin-? pairing and a ?-Turris-Mantha pairing.

Sign Turris to a show-me contract with the understanding that he's gonna get juicy minutes (cushy deployment) with good players and no other club's gonna offer him this caliber of cake. Sign a good-not-great veteran winger, preferably a RH shot, e.g. Craig Smith. Trade for Vinnie Hinostroza cuz I like him. Use a compliance buyout on Abdelkader. Maybe Nielsen retires.

Tyler Bertuzzi -- Dylan Larkin -- Craig Smith
Robby Fabbri -- Kyle Turris -- Anthony Mantha
Filip Zadina -- Michael Rasmussen -- Vinnie Hinostroza
Darren Helm -- Valtteri Filppula -- Luke Glendening
(Dmytro Timashov, Some Guy)

Hell, maybe give Fabbri some quality time at center too. Hinostroza's also a converted center, which is why I have him flanking the inexperienced Rasmussen.

I dunno. Just thinking out loud.

Edited by Dabura

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I mean, he does kinda suck. He's a scorer who doesn't score much lately. Borderline washed up. BUT, we all know forward pairings are all the rage with coaches these days, and Turris & Mantha seemed to show legit chemistry at the worlds. It'd be dope if we could get two solid lines out of a Bertuzzi-Larkin-? pairing and a ?-Turris-Mantha pairing.

Sign Turris to a show-me contract with the understanding that he's gonna get juicy minutes (cushy deployment) with good players and no other club's gonna offer him this caliber of cake. Sign a good-not-great veteran winger, preferably a RH shot, e.g. Craig Smith. Trade for Vinnie Hinostroza cuz I like him. Use a compliance buyout on Abdelkader. Maybe Nielsen retires.

Tyler Bertuzzi -- Dylan Larkin -- Craig Smith
Robby Fabbri -- Kyle Turris -- Anthony Mantha
Filip Zadina -- Michael Rasmussen -- Vinnie Hinostroza
Darren Helm -- Valtteri Filppula -- Luke Glendening
(Dmytro Timashov, Some Guy)

Hell, maybe give Fabbri some quality time at center too. Hinostroza's also a converted center, which is why I have him flanking the inexperienced Rasmussen.

I dunno. Just thinking out loud.

To be fair to Turris he had to play behind Forsberg and Duchene, AND Bonino to an extent. Playing as Nashvilles 8th forward. And he was still on a 40 pt pace, much better than any center besides Larkin we currently have. Our 7th forward was Glendog for pete sake. On this team Turris is probably our 2C and our at the very last our 5/6th forward. I would think he jumps back up to a 50+ pt center in that role with competent line mates, unless he's a total bum.

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yzerman has to add a 2C right?

We've been searching for one since young Fil left the team in 2013. First it was Weiss, then Nielsen, now Filppula again. All experiments failed.

Now are choices behind Larkin seem to be Filppula, Nielsen, Ehn, Glendening, and possibly Gagner. I think it's universally agreed all 4 are awful choices for a 2C.

Veleno and Rasmussen are promising (and possibly our 1st rounder this year) but none are likely ready to fill that roll yet.

So here's some options Yzerman has in UFA:

  • Ryan Nugent Hopkins - coming off $6 mil ---- 27 yo - 61 pts in 65 games
  • Mikael Granlund ------- coming off $5.75 mil - 28 yo - 30 pts in 63 games
  • Alex Galchenyuk ------- coming off $4.9 mil -- 26 yo - 24 pts in 59 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Carl Soderberg -------- coming off $4.75 mil - 35 yo - 35 pts in 70 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Craig Smith ------------- coming off $4.25 mil - 31 yo - 31 pts in 69 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Slava Namestnikov --- coming off $4 mil ------ 28 yo - 35 pts in 65 games (former Yzerman player)
  • Sam Gagner ----------- coming off $3.15 mil -- 31 yo - 13 pts in 42 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Erik Haula -------------- coming off $2.75 mil -- 30 yo - 24 pts in 48 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Colin Wilson ----------- coming off $2.6 mil ---- 31 yo - (injured) prior season had 27 pts in 65 games
  • Mattias Janmark ------ coming off $2.3 mil ---- 27 yo - 21 pts in 62 games (plays a lot of wing)
  • Derrick Brassard ----- coming off $1.2 mil ---- 33 yo - 32 pts in 66 games

Honorable mentions: Mikko Koivu, Joe Thornton, Tyler Ennis

Unfortunately quality options are extremely limited. I had to stretch a bit and include players that seem to play mostly wing now. I think the obvious names to target are: RNH, Granlund, Namestnikov, Haula, and Brassard... and realistically I don't think we have a shot at RNH or Haula. But on (hopefully) short term deals Granlund, Namestnikov, or Brassard could be some viable options.

EDIT: credit to @Akakabuto RNH is not UFA this year

Respectfully, we have a 2C...  Dylan Larkin

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of the mentioned players (because we really do not know who will be bought out from other teams yet) I see Yzerman offering Gagner a contract and then if he goes after another, I could see him offering Namestnikov a contract.  I don't see anything long term being offered.  I happen to believe Abby and Nielsen have seen their last days here, that could give both Gagner and Namestnikov a shot at 2C, with the other going 3C.  I see Filppula taking up the 4C spot with Ehn and Glenny or Helm on the RW.  I am hoping for a bunch of buyouts and having more options open up!

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We talked about this in the discord yesterday, but I think it's a true travesty that Blashill never ran a Helm/Glendog center scheme in the bottom 6.

Babcock's last year with the Red Wings: "Maybe I'll try Helm on Datsyuk's wing"
Blashill's first year with the Red Wings: "Helm is forever a winger in my mind now"

Jeff is a half-assed Babcock wannabe without an original thought in his entire smooth-brain.

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1 minute ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

So take this a bit further 

  could the cap go down next year? If so what team could shed pieces that we could pick up for a decent cost and see a bit more sunshine next season vs the dark cloud of this year.

Too much math and too many teams, but yeah if the cap goes down and/or we get compliance buyouts it will be very good for us and more and better players will def be available to us.

Dabura mentioned Turris, but there's probably gonna be many more

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2 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

So take this a bit further 

  could the cap go down next year? If so what team could shed pieces that we could pick up for a decent cost and see a bit more sunshine next season vs the dark cloud of this year.

until that happens, there is just no guessing who may become available. If the cap goes down, and the teams get two compliance buyouts, there could be some tough decisions to be made by the teams at, near or over the cap as it sits. For example, who could Toronto or Arizona need to buyout? There are potentially about 10 teams that would be in cap hell if it drops below $77M for instance...thankfully Detroit will NOT be one of those! We'd still have about $30M to spend, plus that would also save us some money on these RFA's, maybe they'd be taking a smaller bridge deal now to remain compliant.  Also, maybe the league cuts salaries by a certain percentage too, just like after the lockout season.

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On 4/1/2020 at 7:04 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To be fair to Turris he had to play behind Forsberg and Duchene, AND Bonino to an extent. Playing as Nashvilles 8th forward. And he was still on a 40 pt pace, much better than any center besides Larkin we currently have. Our 7th forward was Glendog for pete sake. On this team Turris is probably our 2C and our at the very last our 5/6th forward. I would think he jumps back up to a 50+ pt center in that role with competent line mates, unless he's a total bum.

That's fair. Didn't mean to bash on him too hard, just sayin' we probably wouldn't be getting the Turris of a few years ago, if that's what people would be expecting.

50+ points might be a little optimistic. Could come down to usage. If Larkin can continue to eat really hard minutes and Turris's line gets a lot of cake minutes, I suppose it's entirely possible.

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26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

That's fair. Didn't mean to bash on him too hard, just sayin' we probably wouldn't be getting the Turris of a few years ago, if that's what people would be expecting.

50+ points might be a little optimistic. Could come down to usage. If Larkin can continue to eat really hard minutes and Turris's line gets a lot of cake minutes, I suppose it's entirely possible.

No worries, just look at Turris's usage. Ottawa: Consistently playing 19+ minutes a night. Scoring 50+, 60+ pts. Goes to Nashville and is immediately cut to 15+ minutes a night and only scores around 40 pts a season. I'm kinda like well no duh his scoring tapered-off, so did his ice time.

Now I don't think we should play Turris 19+ minutes a night, I don't even think we should play Larkin 19+. I'd like to see Larkin at 18. Turris at 17. And Fil and Glendening at like 13 n 12.

I think the worry with Turris is the attitude he's been rumored to have. Sure seems like neither Laviolette or Hynes cared much for him. Both throwing him on the 4th line more than enough.

But this looks semi-decent:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Zadina
Fabbri - Turris - Mantha
Helm - Filppula - Glendening
Timashov - Ehn - Erne

two pretty young scoring line, a verteran shutdown 3rd line, and a kids line

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No worries, just look at Turris's usage. Ottawa: Consistently playing 19+ minutes a night. Scoring 50+, 60+ pts. Goes to Nashville and is immediately cut to 15+ minutes a night and only scores around 40 pts a season. I'm kinda like well no duh his scoring tapered-off, so did his ice time.

Now I don't think we should play Turris 19+ minutes a night, I don't even think we should play Larkin 19+. I'd like to see Larkin at 18. Turris at 17. And Fil and Glendening at like 13 n 12.

I think the worry with Turris is the attitude he's been rumored to have. Sure seems like neither Laviolette or Hynes cared much for him. Both throwing him on the 4th line more than enough.

But this looks semi-decent:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Zadina
Fabbri - Turris - Mantha
Helm - Filppula - Glendening
Timashov - Ehn - Erne

two pretty young scoring line, a verteran shutdown 3rd line, and a kids line

What's your take on compliance buyouts? Have people figured out if that'd even be legal under the current CBA? I feel like the NHLPA would riot.

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1 minute ago, Dabura said:

What's your take on compliance buyouts? Have people figured out if that'd even be legal under the current CBA? I feel like the NHLPA would riot.

I have no idea if it's legal or not, but either way I don't think the PA is any position to stage a riot. They're in a position of weakness, because no matter what they choose players will be getting bought out. It'll just be against the cap or not.

The reason they won't like compliance is because it will motivate teams like us to buy out an Abby, whereas we may not have before... even if the cap went down.

IDK I think two compliance buyouts is insane and ridiculous. But maybe 1 is a nice concession.

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Saw Elliotte Friedman is saying Chicago is looking to trade Dylan Strome, and that the asking price is "nothing prohibitive".  Might be a 2C option.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2242851/per-elliotte-friedman-stan-bowman-will-be-trying-to-give-away-dylan-strome-for-nothing-this-offseason

Edited by kipwinger

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Saw Elliotte Friedman is saying Chicago is looking to trade Dylan Strome, and that the asking price is "nothing prohibitive".  Might be a 2C option.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2242851/per-elliotte-friedman-stan-bowman-will-be-trying-to-give-away-dylan-strome-for-nothing-this-offseason

... but why?

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16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

... but why?

IDK but this tweet in particular is quite telling

Maybe it's an off-ice issue? Cost not being prohibitive screams that to me. Arizona giving up on Strome super early is a little suspicious too... Chayka has been pretty active at purging "problem" players quickly over his career ala Perlini, Galchenyuk, Duclair, DeAngelo. Besides DeAngelo all those guys have moved on past the team they were traded to already, including Duclair and Perlini with Chicago. Maybe it's the same situation with Strome?

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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