If we don't win the lottery

[Akakabuto 1,750]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Anyway, when the actual s*** is the lotto draw? Have there been any meaningful updates?

I dont think so. Still mostly just speculation.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

49 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Both you and Mackel have called Zadina a "bust". No one is putting words in your mouth when they say you have.

Yeah, I've also said Brendan Smith is a raging dumpster fire who plays worse than a drunken chimpanzee on skates. Now do I actually think Brendan Smith is in a burning pile of garbage who would be outmatched by an intoxicated primate? No. Admittedly the monkey would probably have to be sober...

Point being: If your play is to string me up for hyperbolic language it's a pretty weak play. Everyone here knows one another and there stances, and everyone knows I wouldn't argue that point. So I find it to be disingenuous and a complete waste of time to begin each conversation about Zadina on the premise that I think Zadina is a bust.

In the point that you were responding to though I was trying to say that i think it's BS that there's a informal gag order on critiquing young players. It's dumb. Instead of talking critically about young assets we stick our heads in the sand and dismiss any negative takes on them. Bust-pilling LGW on Mrazek was like pulling teeth. But now in hindsight I'm sure most would say that kid was overhyped.

That all said, Zadina is busting so hard right now

Edited April 27, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Zadina is busting so hard right now

Like you whenever you think about Seider

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Like you whenever you think about Seider

Have you seen this kid? He's like Tyler Bertuzzi + Nazi eugenics. Intelligence, mobility, size, gap-control, personality, courage, confidence, leadership, grit. This is a backbone player. A building block. As @Dabura likes to say, a tide that raises all ships.

*folds legs to hide erection*

I could not design a player like this in a lab. He has all the qualities that I like + the ones I forgot I liked. Forgive my comparison to Lidstrom, but he reeks of that steady Dman you kinda of forget about, but is secretly one of the biggest reasons you actually won cups... like Lidstrom. But then he's also violent like Konstantinov or Kronwall.

If there exists a glimmer of hope on this team it is Seider. We all know Veleno is probably going to be an okay centerman. Zadina an okay winger. Larkin an okay leader and contributor. Hronek a steady presence. But Seider has potential for greatness. I truly believe that. This is the one player we have right now who could be talked about in a lot of circles one day. That jazzes me right up to the point where I wanna coom.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

As @Dabura likes to say, a tide that raises all ships.

Uh, what?

[marcaractac 3,963]

16 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Not even close.  I'd take two, maybe even three players before Lafreniere.  So we're very much not thinking the same way here.  I don't have some wild crush on Rossi, after careful consideration I think he's the biggest difference maker in the top part of the draft.  But I'd also take Byfield and maybe Stutzle over Lafrieniere. 

Simply put, centers have more impact on the game than wingers.  Especially centers who can do other things well in addition to scoring.  Lafreniere may get you a big goal one day, which is true for all the other top guys as well, but he'll never kill a big penalty, win a defensive zone draw late in a game to protect a lead, or bear down the backcheck and break up an odd man rush.  That's just not his game.  And when you get to the elite level those are the things that separate the winners. 

THAT'S why I'd rather have Rossi or Byfield or Stutzle. Same reason as I'd rather have Draisaitl or Barkov over McDavid or Eichel. Same reason I'd rather have Seth Jones than Erik Karlsson.  Scoring is great, but everyone at the top of the draft can score.  What else can you do and how well can you do it?

 

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of Rossi at all, having done a lot of reading up on him since. Sure I think you also undervalue Lafreniere, but that's fine. In the end, if Yzerman drafts Rossi, you'll be the first person I hope is correct. 

Since the Wings have royally sucked, the only consensus first overall picks I've clamoured for have been Dahlin and Lafreniere. If I had to choose between those two, it would be Dahlin without question. 

The whole 'Loose for Hughes' thing last year was a fun little rhyme. But Byram and Dach IMO were the big standouts in that draft. 

[Dabura 12,207]

15 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I don't remember you being a Hughes slappy. You were big on Kakko IIRC.

I like Hughes more. I said Hughes plays chess while Kakko plays checkers. I also said Hughes is a weapons-grade playmaker. These statements are why kip hates me. Again, though, I would've been more than happy with us getting Kakko. Every year of this tank I've said I'd be thrilled with a top-three pick. Said it in 2016-17. Said it in 2017-18. Said it last season. This season the circumstances are a little different, but hell yes I'll take 2nd or 3rd overall in this draft.

11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Have you seen this kid? He's like Tyler Bertuzzi + Nazi eugenics. Intelligence, mobility, size, gap-control, personality, courage, confidence, leadership, grit. This is a backbone player. A building block. As @Dabura likes to say, a tide that raises all ships.

*folds legs to hide erection*

I could not design a player like this in a lab. He has all the qualities that I like + the ones I forgot I liked. Forgive my comparison to Lidstrom, but he reeks of that steady Dman you kinda of forget about, but is secretly one of the biggest reasons you actually won cups... like Lidstrom. But then he's also violent like Konstantinov or Kronwall.

If there exists a glimmer of hope on this team it is Seider. We all know Veleno is probably going to be an okay centerman. Zadina an okay winger. Larkin an okay leader and contributor. Hronek a steady presence. But Seider has potential for greatness. I truly believe that. This is the one player we have right now who could be talked about in a lot of circles one day. That jazzes me right up to the point where I wanna coom.

Seider is a Swedish piece of crap.

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

I don't disagree with your assessment of Rossi at all, having done a lot of reading up on him since. Sure I think you also undervalue Lafreniere, but that's fine. In the end, if Yzerman drafts Rossi, you'll be the first person I hope is correct. 

Since the Wings have royally sucked, the only consensus first overall picks I've clamoured for have been Dahlin and Lafreniere. If I had to choose between those two, it would be Dahlin without question. 

The whole 'Loose for Hughes' thing last year was a fun little rhyme. But Byram and Dach IMO were the big standouts in that draft. 

I'm not undervaluing Lafreniere at all. I think he'll be a very high scoring winger.  I don't think it's unreasonable for him to be a 80-90 point winger even, if he hits his ceiling.  But as I've said many times, I'd rather have an 80 point center than a 90 point winger. Their impact on the game is greater.

My stance on this draft has NEVER been anti-Lafreniere. I don't care about him.  It's entirely based on our need for a top center combined with the availability of three guys after Lafreniere who all have 1C projections. Of those three I think Rossi is the best, and that's who I'd take, but Byfield and Stutzle are not far behind.

I think we have championship caliber wingers already.  If Mantha's dumb ass would stop fighting he'd be a 30 goal, 75 point winger.  Zadina probably pots 25 goals and 60ish points.  Bert will chip in 18 goals, 45 points. One of Veleno or Ras will be an impact winger.  Probably Berggren and Mastrosimone too.  Fabbri has been a very pleasant surprise, I'd expect 18 goals, 55ish points from him too going forward. 

But I don't think there's a chance in hell we win anything with Dylan Larkin as our 1C.  He's not offensively gifted enough to come up with big goals when you need it, and we REALLY struggle by not have better offensive centers on the powerplay. So we need an offensive 1C, which lets Dylan be a stud 2C matchup guy, and then one of Veleno or Ras at 3C.  That's REAL center depth of the sort that could cause serious problems for potential playoff opponents.

3 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I like Hughes more. I said Hughes plays chess while Kakko plays checkers. I also said Hughes is a weapons-grade playmaker. These statements are why kip hates me. Again, though, I would've been more than happy with us getting Kakko. Every year of this tank I've said I'd be thrilled with a top-three pick. Said it in 2016-17. Said it in 2017-18. Said it last season. This season the circumstances are a little different, but hell yes I'll take 2nd or 3rd overall in this draft.

Seider is a Swedish piece of crap.

To be clear, I hate you because you're a dim-witted, passive aggressive, whiner.  As evidenced by this post.  But do you really want to start this up again? 

[Dabura 12,207]

15 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

I dont think so. Still mostly just speculation.

Yeah, I immediately regretted asking that question because it's a stupid question. Nothing's gonna happen until we start easing out of lockdown.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

To be clear, I hate you because you're a dim-witted, passive aggressive, whiner.  As evidenced by this post.  But do you really want to start this up again? 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Just now, Dabura said:

Then keep my name out yo mouth, b*tch.

[Dabura 12,207]

Just now, kipwinger said:

Then keep my name out yo mouth, b*tch.

heck you i won't do what you tell me

[F.Michael 4,590]

If the Wings win the lotto, and Grand Master Y nabs Lafreniere...Does coach 'X' place him on a line with Larkin, or his buddy Veleno?

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

If the Wings win the lotto, and Grand Master Y nabs Lafreniere...Does coach 'X' place him on a line with Larkin, or his buddy Veleno?

Neither.  For the the first season he'd probably be on a line with some veteran like Filppula or something.  Veleno ain't making the Wings out of camp, and Lafreniere would get eaten alive against top line competition as a rookie (regardless of how good he is).  Probably ends up on a 2nd line with Filppula and Fabbri or something awful like that.

Edited April 28, 2020 by kipwinger

[F.Michael 4,590]

Just now, kipwinger said:

Neither.  For the the first season he'd probably be one a line with some veteran like Filppula or something.  Veleno ain't making the Wings out of camp, and Lafreniere would get eaten alive against top line competition as a rookie (regardless of how good he is).  Probably ends up on a 2nd line with Filppula and Fabbri or something awful like that.

Eventually - lets say a few seasons in when these kids have some experience...What's your take then?

[kipwinger 8,524]

Just now, F.Michael said:

Eventually - lets say a few seasons in when these kids have some experience...What's your take then?

He'd definitely be one of the top line wingers, but I'm just not sure what our centers will look like by then.  I genuinely don't think the Wings are content to go forward with Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen as their centers of the future. If they are then we're in real trouble.  If I'm right then they'd have to draft a center in the next year or so and I presume that's who Lafreniere would slot in with after a few years time.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

He'd definitely be one of the top line wingers, but I'm just not sure what our centers will look like by then.  I genuinely don't think the Wings are content to go forward with Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen as their centers of the future. If they are then we're in real trouble.  If I'm right then they'd have to draft a center in the next year or so and I presume that's who Lafreniere would slot in with after a few years time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 2021 NHL draft class said to be a strong Dman class (as opposed to this season where it's strong up the middle).

Personally I'm indifferent as a whole since I go primarily what the scouting experts, and Craig Button have to say.

Seems like the top 4 (5 if you include the Dman Drysdale) are legit high-end prospects...What gets my attention now is the draft lotto itself - as in will it be the bottom 5 only (that lasted up to 2012), or will it include the 15 teams not in the current playoff format?

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, F.Michael said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 2021 NHL draft class said to be a strong Dman class (as opposed to this season where it's strong up the middle).

Personally I'm indifferent as a whole since I go primarily what the scouting experts, and Craig Button have to say.

Seems like the top 4 (5 if you include the Dman Drysdale) are legit high-end prospects...What gets my attention now is the draft lotto itself - as in will it be the bottom 5 only (that lasted up to 2012), or will it include the 15 teams not in the current playoff format?

Don't know the answer to either of those questions.  In general it's probably WAY too early to know what kind of draft class 2021 will be considering there's always so much movement within the season.  Guys fall, or rise, considerably and change the outlook at the top of the draft every year.  I think a couple of years ago Jesperi Kotkaniemi was ranked 28th or something going into his draft year and was picked 3rd overall when it was said and done. 

As far as the lotto goes, I think it will largely be a standard format but with an expanded playoff pool there may be a few tweaks.  Bubble teams will want to make the playoffs because A) they'll need the revenue with a truncated season and B) they've already spent assets at the deadline gearing up for a playoff push. With that said, the league isn't going to give some teams a shot at the Cup AND a draft lottery spot. So I think they'll expand the playoffs to include play-in games for a few bubble teams. The losers of the play-ins will be put in lottery so the odds will stay the same and the winners will get the regular pick based on how they do in the playoffs.

[Dabura 12,207]

7 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

If the Wings win the lotto, and Grand Master Y nabs Lafreniere...Does coach 'X' place him on a line with Larkin, or his buddy Veleno?

Veleno isn't quite ready for prime time; he's probably gonna spend at least half of next season on the farm.

I figure if we do get Lafreniere, Yzerman probably goes out and gets an upgrade at 2C, because Filapoola is poop. The theoretical 2C upgrade would probably be Lafreniere's default centerman, but Lafreniere would surely be bouncing around lines 1-3 throughout the season. I can imagine him doing well with Larkin and Mantha on some shifts and I can also imagine him getting crushed with Larkin and Mantha on other shifts.

If we're talking big picture? I mean, I'd certainly hope he'd establish himself as our #1 winger, maybe as soon as early 2021. The hope would be that he becomes the Kane to Larkin's Toews, but I don't know what our center situation is going to look like 2+ years from now. I don't know who he'd ultimately be flanking on the top line. I'm assuming Veleno is going to be a slow and steady riser; if he becomes a 1C, it'll likely be several years from now.

I suppose it's possible Yzerman trades a winger or two for a centerman, as the addition of Lafreniere would make things pretty crowded on our winger depth chart.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, I immediately regretted asking that question because it's a stupid question. Nothing's gonna happen until we start easing out of lockdown.

Also read somewhere that gm's are not so keen on having the draft in june. Whatever that means.

[F.Michael 4,590]

27 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Also read somewhere that gm's are not so keen on having the draft in june. Whatever that means.

The talk was holding a 'virtual' draft like the NFL had done - however the big issue was what format will be (bottom 5 teams, or bottom 15 teams), and how a playoffs might look like. 

[13dangledangle 965]

32 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

The talk was holding a 'virtual' draft like the NFL had done - however the big issue was what format will be (bottom 5 teams, or bottom 15 teams), and how a playoffs might look like. 

I also read that they are going back to the old format for this draft, and it was Bob McKenzie so it has some weight.  Only one winner and cant climb more than 4 spots, putting the Wings no less then 2nd pick...I'd be very happy if this is the case

 

*edit: he also said early not late June-Im hoping they release this information soon

Edited April 28, 2020 by 13dangledangle

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, 13dangledangle said:

I also read that they are going back to the old format for this draft, and it was Bob McKenzie so it has some weight.  Only one winner and cant climb more than 4 spots, putting the Wings no less then 2nd pick...I'd be very happy if this is the case

 

*edit: he also said early not late June-Im hoping they release this information soon

Detroit - Ottawa - LA - Anaheim will be all for it...All the other GMs heads would explode if this were allowed.

It'll be an entertaining cluster regardless.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

The talk was holding a 'virtual' draft like the NFL had done - however the big issue was what format will be (bottom 5 teams, or bottom 15 teams), and how a playoffs might look like. 

I also think timing is an issue. Drafting in june, with the playoff format not being set, means they have to tweak it somehow which the majority of the league gm’s are not in favor of. As you said in a later post. In think there is a strong possibility of a later draft this year.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

I also think timing is an issue. Drafting in june, with the playoff format not being set, means they have to tweak it somehow which the majority of the league gm’s are not in favor of. As you said in a later post. In think there is a strong possibility of a later draft this year.

Yup - this is a major factor too.

My tiny brain got to thinking...God forbids - if Covid sees another 2nd wave of infection, and this goes on for several plus more months...

What's the chance of 2 classes (2020, and 2021) taking place within a few months - even weeks from one another?