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Robby Fabbri Extended

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9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

How? Name a single guy we wanted to sign, but couldn't, because we didn't have cap space? Name a single pick or prospect we traded away (a la Patrick Marleau) to open up cap space?  It didn't happen.

You don't think being pressed up against the cap with terrible contracts like those were a problem? There were a few UFA's I'm sure we wanted to throw more money at but couldn't. We couldn't make any big deadline day splashes like other contenders because we were against the cap. But that was years ago. We don't need to sign anyone since we're not contending. And we didn't lose any prospects because we didn't have any good enough to throw a bunch of money at.

The way I see it is we don't need the cap space for the next few years, Fabbri was one of the few bright spots last year, so why not.

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21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So if you're Anthony Mantha's agent, and Robby Fabbri just got 2.9 million dollars a year based on his "pace", you're telling me you're not asking for 8 million to start? Same with Bert. If I'm his agent I'm definitely starting at 6.5 or 7. Sure both of them will come down a bit, but in an ideal world you'd want Mantha at around 6 million and Bert around 5 million. And if you WOULDN'T ask for that money you'd be a horrible agent because the GM just proved his willingness to overspend my almost a million and a half dollars per year.

And I DO think Nylander and Marner are relevant. Dubas hamstrung his team because he didn't use RFA leverage when he could have. And both of those players had a better track record of success than any of our guys do. And because he overpaid them he lost a 1st round pick in the Marleau trade to free up additional cap space. Something he may have to do again this year. So it's not like the pitfalls of overpaying RFAs are hard to imagine.

Mantha and Bert will be paid based on their performance. Much like Fabbri was. 

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2 hours ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Protect: Larkin, Mantha, Glendening, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Ehn, Teamashov

Helm maybe instead of Teamashov?

Glendening would be an UFA. No need to protect him. Just re-sign him July 1st.

Helm may not be back after this season.

Protect Svech.

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41 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Mantha and Bert will be paid based on their performance. Much like Fabbri was. 

That's very succinct, but ignores the fact that their salary will be based on the outcome of a negotiation. And as with all negotiations there will be a range of potential salaries that they could fall in. Don't be surprised if they come in at the very top of that range now. Just like Fabbri did. And not because he's some stud, but because if a mediocre player is worth 3 million then a top line player is worth considerably more.

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Honestly kip. Your opinion is basically useless. Every gm probably overlays a little for a few players. You seem to think yzerman has some track record of over paying all these garbage players. If that were true how did he build a beast cup contending team that's 100% cap compliant? And dont give me the no tax garbage 

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55 minutes ago, Wings3:16 said:

Also - Mantha got the same bridge deal from Holland. 800K at 36 points then jumped to 3mill.

Nope. Mantha got his extension in July, 2018 after his 24 goals, 48 point season. Something that Robby Fabbri has never done. Also, Anthony Mantha hasn't blown his knee out twice. If his bridge deal was worth 3.3 million, then Fabbri's should be significantly less. Which is exactly what I've been saying.

Thanks for playing.

Just now, Euro_Twins said:

Honestly kip. Your opinion is basically useless. Every gm probably overlays a little for a few players. You seem to think yzerman has some track record of over paying all these garbage players. If that were true how did he build a beast cup contending team that's 100% cap compliant? And dont give me the no tax garbage 

I don't think he overpays more or less than anyone else. I'm simply saying that the Fabbri contract IS an overpayment. And I think that any GM, whether Yzerman or Holland or whomever, should never overpay for mediocre talent. If you're cool with him overpaying mediocre guys then good on you.

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50 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Nope. Mantha got his extension in July, 2018 after his 24 goals, 48 point season. Something that Robby Fabbri has never done. Also, Anthony Mantha hasn't blown his knee out twice. If his bridge deal was worth 3.3 million, then Fabbri's should be significantly less. Which is exactly what I've been saying.

Thanks for playing.

I don't think he overpays more or less than anyone else. I'm simply saying that the Fabbri contract IS an overpayment. And I think that any GM, whether Yzerman or Holland or whomever, should never overpay for mediocre talent. If you're cool with him overpaying mediocre guys then good on you.

Your Fabbri hate is loud and clear. You're literally the only person I've seen who considers this overpayment. 

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7 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Your Fabbri hate is loud and clear. You're literally the only person I've seen who considers this overpayment. 

I don't "hate" or "like" players. I don't know them so having personal feelings about them is childish. I don't think he's anything more than a decent third line winger. Totally replaceable. He also has a significant injury history. And he's an RFA. because of all those things I think that 2.9 million was too much. I don't think the contract will cripple the team, though I do expect it will factor into other negotiations this year. But that doesn't mean it's not an overpayment.

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2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Mantha and Bert will be paid based on their performance. Much like Fabbri was. 

I don't think Grand Master Y will have any issues signing Bert to a new contract...Mantha on the other hand. 

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

How? Name a single guy we wanted to sign, but couldn't, because we didn't have cap space? Name a single pick or prospect we traded away (a la Patrick Marleau) to open up cap space?  It didn't happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hossa, and Quincey come to mind.

EDIT - not enough space for Hossa, and Holland moved Quincey in order to keep Chelios, and stay under the cap...

Edited by F.Michael

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What's the old saying?

1M per 10 pts.

Hence 120 pt guys get 12M

60 pt guys get around 6M

30 pt guys get 3M

Are we saying Fabbri won't get 30 pts? 

 

What's the other old saying? Oh yeah! @kipwinger is a troll on his best day and a raging a-hole on his worst. LOL

 

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5 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I don't think Grand Master Y will have any issues signing Bert to a new contract...Mantha on the other hand. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hossa, and Quincey come to mind.

Hossa was gone before any of the "bad contracts" I mentioned. And the Wings didn't offer Quincey a contract at the conclusion of his second stint. He did not leave because we couldn't afford him. He left because we didn't want him.

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Hossa was gone before any of the "bad contracts" I mentioned. And the Wings didn't offer Quincey a contract at the conclusion of his second stint. He did not leave because we couldn't afford him. He left because we didn't want him.

Found this on Wiki...

Unable to crack the talent-laden Red Wings and due to salary cap compliance issues, he was placed and eventually claimed off waivers on October 13, 2008, by the Los Angeles Kings.[9] 

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16 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

What's the old saying?

1M per 10 pts.

Hence 120 pt guys get 12M

60 pt guys get around 6M

30 pt guys get 3M

Are we saying Fabbri won't get 30 pts? 

 

What's the other old saying? Oh yeah! @kipwinger is a troll on his best day and a raging a-hole on his worst. LOL

 

That's 1 million per point on the UFA market. Fabbri is an RFA with a significant injury history. He shouldn't be getting paid at the high end of the pay scale for a 3rd line winger given these two things.

Edit: Given this model we should be paying Madison Bowey 2.7 million on his next contract because his season pace was 27 pts. over 82 games. I don't think anyone would be happy with that for Bowey on an RFA contract. So this pay scale is probably not a good model for RFAs.

 

12 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Found this on Wiki...

Unable to crack the talent-laden Red Wings and due to salary cap compliance issues, he was placed and eventually claimed off waivers on October 13, 2008, by the Los Angeles Kings.[9] 

Again, 2008 was prior at the bad signings of Helm, Abby, Nielsen, or Ericsson. Which is what I was referencing. The whole point was that if the definition of "bad contract" is one that hurts the team, then the signings of the guys above aren't "bad contracts" because they never "hurt" the Wings in any meaningful way.

One the other hand, if a "bad contract" is paying a guy more than he's worth then all of those contracts are bad. And so is Fabbri's. Not world-ending bad, but not good value either.

Edited by kipwinger

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5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

So mid range 1st rounder, 2nd round center prospect, and a 4th line scrub for Kapanen? Why? Kapanen isn't even good.

No kidding. 

If this sets market prices, Yzerman needs to get on the phone right now and trade everybody (except Fabbri - his deal is solid) 

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12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

So mid range 1st rounder, 2nd round center prospect, and a 4th line scrub for Kapanen? Why? Kapanen isn't even good.

Because Jim Rutherford is a dumbf*ck and has, throughout his career, made idiotic trades just for the sake of "shaking things up".

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So they give up Kapanen and a 1st to get Kessel. They swap Kessel for Galchenyuk. Dump a 1st and Galchenyuk for Zucker. Now dump a 1st and a 2nd for Kapanen.

So almost like they spent three 1sts and one 2nd to get Zucker and Kapanen (whom the later they originally drafted for free). Of course there's some cups in there though.

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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39 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Because Jim Rutherford is a dumbf*ck and has, throughout his career, made idiotic trades just for the sake of "shaking things up".

Yeah with the quotes he made at the end of the Pens playoffs I'm sure every GM in the league frenetically starting looking for his number in their phonebooks.

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Of course there's some cups in there though.

Details.

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6 hours ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Protect: Larkin, Mantha, Glendening, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Ehn, Teamashov

Helm maybe instead of Teamashov?

Glendening and Ehn?

Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Fabbri, Timashov, Rasmussen, and then whichever one of Hirose, Svech or Smith that are more important to the team.

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9 hours ago, CatBoyRossi said:

Neomaxi,

Helm is loyal and one of the best forwards on the club. No reason he will not be back. For this reason your opinion is baseless.

Perhaps Yzerman gives away 3 million to Yevgeny Svechnikov. Would not shock me at this point in time.

 

Cheers

 

Fail to see how an opinion is baseless, but...

1. The Wings are rebuilding and need to get their younger players onto the roster. 

Larkin, Mantha, Bert, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Zadina, Svechnikov, Timashev, Ehn, Smith, Hirose, Veleno

That's 12 forwards right there.

Plus Erne and Perlini are RFAs.

2. Nielsen and Abdelkader's contracts aren't up until after Helm's, so they will still be on the roster.

3. For these reasons, Helm may be the odd man out.

Edit: Forgot about Glendening. He'll be an UFA too and will be brought back before Helm.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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17 hours ago, kipwinger said:

That's 1 million per point on the UFA market. Fabbri is an RFA with a significant injury history. He shouldn't be getting paid at the high end of the pay scale for a 3rd line winger given these two things.

I'm assuming you mean 1 million per 10 points on the UFA market here. Fabbri was on pace for ~50. Based on his consistency, over a full season, he'd have likely gotten there. At worst he'd have gotten close. Therefore, based on a 2.9 million per season salary, he is paid less than a UFA who produces similarly. Based on the '1 million per 10 points rule'.

He came to Detroit, was a consistent point producer, was on pace for a career year at a young age, and stayed healthy. He earned this bridge deal. The money is fair. The term is safe. This contract will have zero impact on Mantha and Bert. Their next contracts actually will take them into their UFA years. They had their bridge deals. It's a completely different negotiation for the two. 

8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Fail to see how an opinion is baseless, but...

1. The Wings are rebuilding and need to get their younger players onto the roster. 

Larkin, Mantha, Bert, Fabbri, Rasmussen, Zadina, Svechnikov, Timashev, Ehn, Smith, Hirose, Veleno

That's 12 forwards right there.

Plus Erne and Perlini are RFAs.

2. Nielsen and Abdelkader's contracts aren't up until after Helm's, so they will still be on the roster.

3. For these reasons, Helm may be the odd man out.

Edit: Forgot about Glendening. He'll be an UFA too and will be brought back before Helm.

Helm and Glenny are gonna be our main trade deadline pieces next season. 

I honestly would love to see Blash put Helm back at center next season to up his trade value. 

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On 8/25/2020 at 11:07 AM, The 91 of Ryans said:

What's the old saying?

1M per 10 pts.

Hence 120 pt guys get 12M

60 pt guys get around 6M

30 pt guys get 3M

Are we saying Fabbri won't get 30 pts? 

 

What's the other old saying? Oh yeah! @kipwinger is a troll on his best day and a raging a-hole on his worst. LOL

 

Filppula, $3 mil AAV = 21 pts
Nemeth, $3 mil AAV = 9 pts
Erne, $1.05 mil AAV = 5 pts
Biega, $0.875 mil AAV = 3 pts

But don't worry guys, this time with Fabbri it's different...

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23 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Filppula, $3 mil AAV = 21 pts
Nemeth, $3 mil AAV = 9 pts
Erne, $1.05 mil AAV = 5 pts
Biega, $0.875 mil AAV = 3 pts

But don't worry guys, this time with Fabbri it's different...

Zadina > Fabbri

erm aye doin this right or wha? 

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