NHL Diversity

[_SP_ 129]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Okay so then if average blacks and average whites largely make the same. Why aren't blacks playing an expensive sport like hockey? 

Because there is much, much greater emphasis in the United States on football and baseball.  The amount of money the elite players make on the field - not including endorsements - are 3-5x the amount.

Highest earners in the NHL average $12-13M.
Highest earners in (non-sport) NASCAR average $17.5M.
Highest earners in the NFL average $35M.
Highest earners in the MLB average $35M.
Highest earners in the NBA average $37M.

There is more money in the other American sports. There is more money thrown at it from the broadcast companies (majority of their revenue).  There are more viewers.  And, thus, there is more youth following.

48% of NCAA football players are black. 54% of NCAA basketball players are black. 69% of NFL players are black.  74% of NBA players are black.  They just flock to those sports unlike any other. 

Do we have a racial diversity problem there, when 14% of the population makes up 74% of a sport's player base?

93% of NHL athletes are white.  But only 25% of all players are from the U.S. The majority are from Canada which, last I checked, rubs it in the faces of Americans that Canada is a cultural safe haven for all people.  But... must be my racist ass in Ohio that prevents black people from playing hockey? Meanwhile, neither my high school NOR MY ENTIRE SCHOOL DISTRICT! offered a hockey team, because I went to a poor public high school so................................. once again, income, not race, issue.

[martyrme19 73]

Oh hey guys. I'll jump in this fight if ya'll don't mind.

Two things that I want to clarify before doing so: 

1)  First would be my anecdotal life experience with the black community. My long time significant other is black, I'm white.  I'm very well entrenched in her family/community that reside, for the greater part, in South Chicago. She is also the co-founder of the business we own together. The business is a financial service that disproportionately benefits from our services. I don't want to get into too much detail because I don't want to dox myself. I should say that we also employ a good number of black people as well.

2) I've learned that when entering topics of debate like this, it is crucial to define certain vocabulary and agree upon it. Clear cut, I define racism as the belief that someone of another race is intrinsically inferior to you or other races. If you two want to define it in any other way, please let me know.



CRL - If I can summarize, you asked SP if the past atrocities by white people is the reason for the issues they face today. I believe the answer is yes and no. Obviously you cannot deny that many black people wouldn't be here if it weren't for slavery. And those that would be, would have done so of their own accord and likely more successful than average. The continued oppression that black people faced certainly kept many of them from reaching their potential in life and caused their communities to be more prone to toxic 

However, I do not believe that those past hardships are experienced by today's black society. I believe your point is that because of the past, you surely cannot expect Black America to be any better off than they are now. I would agree, but to a much less degree than you, I am sure.

With all of my life experiences and knowledge, what I believe is this. Though it's obviously true that the black community has suffered in the past, those hardships have little to no bearing on a black person's day to day life right now. I believe, however, that during those hardships, there are a lot of voices in those communities that speak up about many different ideals, cultural norms and mores.  It is up to that community to decide which voices to listen to and follow. Unfortunately for the black community, they have made a lot of critical mistakes by choosing to listen to the wrong voices. Now, this could literally happen to any other group of people put in the same situation. I don't believe they are predispositioned to make these bad choices. Hindsight is 20/20.

But these choices that are made over decades have created a disproportionately toxic culture that has now turned on itself so much that it is the number one thing impeding black advancement. I know this because the people who abide to and succumb to today's black culture do not thrive. Rather, they parish in terrible ways. The one's who often reject those ideals and norms (such as my significant other) very often thrive and become successes. Then, they are excommunicated from black society and culture.

You keep calling CP racist. But I bet you that he's never insulted a black person to their face (or online or whatever have you). I bet he's never told a black youth that 76% of this country hates him and wants to keep him from succeeding. I bet you he's never made a black youth feel discouraged about how successful he can be in life. But, I bet YOU have. You make asinine assumptions about the majority of American's and project yourself as a neutral voice for White America. You lift yourself up in life by beating other white people down. You're different than everyone else, right? Special. Everyone is racist except you. You belong to a small elite class that isn't racist. How convenient that the standard you've built in your head to measure your success and worth as a human is completely based on something that you and you alone can arbitrarily and ambiguously measure.

People like you tell a young black boy how much White America hates him, how they want to see him addicted to drugs and thrown in jail before he's even 18. He believes that 76% of people hate him before he's ever met any of them.  You spout your agenda as if it's gospel.  It's easy to do since your fight is so selfless, right? There's no accountability for you whatsoever because if your intentions are right, what harm could you be doing? 

Human nature is to hate those that we believe hate us. If it's your life duty to spout off to black people how much they're hated, that will only create animosity. Blacks will believe they have to fight back, not live amongst. White people see them fighting back....trying to bring their way of life down (a life where they never wished harm on anyone). They now believe that black people must assuredly hate them. You've now created your self-fulfilling prophecy. You've created hate. With your message, black people can never self-reflect and come to the realization that only they can change the toxic parts of their culture. That more than what any other white person can do for them, they can make the most change in their live's by their actions and their actions alone.

I believe people like you are the ones who create the biggest divide between races. But there is no way to convince you of that. The scariest thing is a person who causes harm with a good conscience.
 

[_SP_ 129]

2) I've learned that when entering topics of debate like this, it is crucial to define certain vocabulary and agree upon it. Clear cut, I define racism as the belief that someone of another race is intrinsically inferior to you or other races. If you two want to define it in any other way, please let me know.


This.  I 100% cannot stand "ghetto" of any color. I went to school with ghetto that was of ALL colors.  It is a LIFESTYLE - NOT an intrinsic aspect of anyone's birth.

Black people aren't born ghetto.  Those that are ghetto, are raised in it and raised to follow those lifestyles.  It's not a color.  That's why, there are ghetto white people and ghetto Latinos in Detroit, L.A., my Ohio city.... etc.   Hell, Eminem made his LIVING as being a ghetto white dude.

People associate that with color, because that's what they've been taught Black is. I think THAT, of all things, is the most racist assumption.

I have found, that most people who believe "blacks need saving", are speaking for inherently racist standpoints with no actual interaction with black people on a regular basis.

I lived it.  Black people don't need saving from white racists.  Black people need saving from gang culture.  Hell, most white racists will never meet a black person in their lives - they're always the idiots missing teeth living in a town of 89 and not a black person within 80 miles.

Bet CRL will be coming in next to thank you for saving your black wife.  Without your good deed, but what would have come of her?! 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Okay so then if average blacks and average whites largely make the same. Why aren't blacks playing an expensive sport like hockey? 

It's not always about income. Hockey isnt a sport you can just run down to your local park and play. In a lot of communities (of any demographic), hockey rinks require a car/bus/subway/train ride to get to. It takes a lot more effort to play because access can be an issue. It's hard to get kids of any background to dedicate themselves to a niche sport like hockey, when there are easier mainstream options available.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[_SP_ 129]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It's not always about income. Hockey isnt a sport you can just run down to your local park and play. In a lot of communities (of any demographic), hockey rinks require a car/bus/subway/train ride to get to. It takes a lot more effort to play because access can be an issue. It's hard to get kids of any background to dedicate themselves to a niche sport like hockey, when there are easier mainstream options available.

I already told him that. 

Still too racist.

EIGHT colleges in Ohio have hockey.

There are eight college basketball teams within 50 miles of the Ohio/Michigan line.

[Oldtimehockey97 3]

On 8/28/2020 at 1:39 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Beautiful. White players recognizing their inherent racism. This is exactly what the world needed. Less sports and more honest conversations about race politics.

Yup. And I'm sure it will drive the bigots nuts...

I was considering joining this forum to discuss hockey but saw some of your outrageous posts and the moderators letting them stay. I’m not sure it’s worth it as I don’t like to engage with possible trolls but felt it necessary to challenge some of your biased posts. While there are many, I tried to respond to them in just a single post instead of individually thus the paragraphs may not flow seamlessly as I address various topics:

The nhl is one of the most diverse leagues out there with players from many countries. The fact you ignore the various cultures and just look at skin color is in itself ignorant. By your logic are all Asians the same? All Africans the same too? You have an extremely bigoted view if so. The fact you say your not aiming for diversity of thought or culture, rather just skin color is simply... racist. Thought and culture are more important elements than skin color by far. It’s unfortunate you see it the opposite way.

While you rag on the nhl, you say nothing about lack of diversity among players in nba and nfl with 83% and 70% black respectively and namely all from a single country no less. Why not? It goes both ways. I’m a fan of meritocracy. Are you implying teams pass over more higher skilled minorities in the draft? That would be ridiculous. I’d like to see your evidence of the nhl being racist.

The hockey is for everyone campaign was much more of an attempt at inclusion that welcomed everyone as a means to do outreach and grow the game. Yet you say the NHL does nothing? People watch hockey and pay for the game, not to be pandered to. And yes the issue is political as well as social.

Your statements of ‘white players recognizing their racism’ and ‘we need to cancel hockey for human rights’ is a problem. Generalizing people creates resentment. Do you think minorities should also undergo anti-bias training to prevent them from thinking all whites are racist? Racism is a human problem that knows no color. 

Do you see racism everywhere? Like if you turn over a stone it might jump out and bite you? The NHL needs to focus on hockey and inclusion. It doesn’t need to be bringing politics or other issues into it through black jerseys or black lines. Many people have been discriminated against, not just blacks. That said, blacks have very much been economically discriminated against and that needs to change. Fixing that will lead to more opportunities, less poverty, less runs ins with cops, and ability to afford to play the expensive game of hockey.

Perhaps the NHL doesn’t want to rush to judgement on the Jacob Blake situation. You know as more information comes out? Maybe they believe, as many do, that politics should stay out of sports? Have you seen the new info? While the situation definitely should have been handled better and he shouldn’t have been shot, the guy is no martyr. He had a felony warrant and was fighting police. The police were called on him which media failed to mention.

Your accusation against Yzerman is just dumb. Do you have evidence of his desire to ‘purify’ the team or are you pulling it out of your ass? I liked AA, but he was not a 200 foot player as evidenced by his terrible plus minus. Hirose looked promising but hasn’t produced. Daley and Bowey? C’mon, they are depth guys.

As for your fighting words reference, I think you need to reread the cases that narrowed the scope. ‘Intent to elicit immediate violent response’ is required to fall under fighting words. Obscene words are subjective and while they can be offensive, they don’t always fall under fighting words. Think of how many rap songs would fall under that prohibited speech!

Following that, you respond to someone clarifying your message as alt-right without any evidence. Are those fighting words? Do you always assume and jump to conclusions and attack someone’s character instead of engaging in intellectual dialogue? Try to be better than that.

People like you who attack others with no evidence and try to bully people into submission through attempting to assassinate their character need to be stood up to. You have opinions? Great, but you need to realize they are just yours and like assholes, everyone has one. You also need to take your own advice and stick to talking hockey.

The nhl doesn’t need to follow other leagues and bend the knee much like anyone else. You can be fully for equality and respect the flag or want to keep politics out of hockey. Your constant accusation that the nhl is racist seems like baseless smears given the campaigns they’ve initiated. As long as the nhl promotes equality and inclusion, it doesn’t have to be forced to make any ‘stand’ based on issues that happen outside of its control. Unfortunately, the NHL seems to be getting woke and bringing in “diversity trainers” to tell them just how awful people they are. We’ll see if it’s successful or if their ratings take a hit like the NBA.

https://theharrispoll.com/poll-38-of-sports-fans-say-nba-is-too-political-as-reason-they-are-watching-less/

[AtlantaHotWings 987]

17 hours ago, xault said:

Hey! That couch looks comfy as f***!

Thats a nap couch trap. Similar to a Venus fly trap you sit down on it.  Next thing you are drooling and it's 3 hours later and the game is over. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 hour ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Thats a nap couch trap. Similar to a Venus fly trap you sit down on it.  Next thing you are drooling and it's 3 hours later and the game is over. 

That'll only happen to me if there's some bourbon/scotch/beer along with said couch...

[_SP_ 129]

2 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Thats a nap couch trap. Similar to a Venus fly trap you sit down on it.  Next thing you are drooling and it's 3 hours later and the game is over. 

Can confirm, it's happened before lmao.

Seriously though, it smells like straight dog.  So, if you come over, come hang out in the back family room. That's not only a sleep trap, its an allergy/smell-like-old-dog trap. 

[_SP_ 129]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

That'll only happen to me if there's some bourbon/scotch/beer along with said couch...

No alcohol in our house, sans some of my wife's wine.  Dad was an abusive alcoholic... I don't even dabble in it. 

But I make some mean chili, salsa, burgers, ribs.... I make up for the lack of alcohol with some killer food. And a toddler that freakin' listens... why the hell we decided to have another......... we are dumb. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

So, did #9 get the ole ban slam? 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So, did #9 get the ole ban slam? 

Me get the ban slam? The only one who's woke around here? Not likely brother. There's a new woke NHL in town, and all these old cracka's be mad as hell about it. Wish I could crack em in their cracka ass.

4 hours ago, _SP_ said:

No alcohol in our house, sans some of my wife's wine.  Dad was an abusive alcoholic... I don't even dabble in it. 

But I make some mean chili, salsa, burgers, ribs.... I make up for the lack of alcohol with some killer food. And a toddler that freakin' listens... why the hell we decided to have another......... we are dumb. 

But does your toddler have any credit card debt?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Take The Pledge - Get Uncomfortable Campaign

Quote

bringing together BIPOC players, fans, media members, executives, sponsors, allies and other stakeholders to explore the necessary steps the sport must take to disrupt racism on and off the ice and make hockey welcoming for EVERYONE.

The Get Uncomfortable Campaign is developing a comprehensive set of recommendations on how all entities involved in hockey, at all levels, can meaningfully contribute to the movement against discrimination and oppression of BIPOC communities in society.

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Take The Pledge - Get Uncomfortable Campaign

 

BIPOC = Bipolar people of color?

That seems oddly specific.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Me get the ban slam? The only one who's woke around here? Not likely brother. There's a new woke NHL in town, and all these old cracka's be mad as hell about it. Wish I could crack em in their cracka ass.

 

Oh thank heavens! You're still here!! 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

50 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

BIPOC = Bipolar people of color?

That seems oddly specific.

BIPOC = Black and Indigenous People Of Color

Were excluding hispanics and asians cause they matter less. There's a hierarchy. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

BIPOC = Black and Indigenous People Of Color

Were excluding hispanics and asians cause they matter less. There's a hierarchy. 

And why you suppose those 2 groups aren't included? Hmmmm. Let's see if you can figure it out.

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

And why you suppose those 2 groups aren't included? Hmmmm. Let's see if you can figure it out.

 

I already said it. Cause asians and Hispanics matter less. there's a hierarchy of oppression. Blacks and Indigenous deserve more attention. 

[_SP_ 129]

19 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Me get the ban slam? The only one who's woke around here? Not likely brother. There's a new woke NHL in town, and all these old cracka's be mad as hell about it. Wish I could crack em in their cracka ass.

But does your toddler have any credit card debt?

"WOKE"???  Did you seriously just use that term? Are you a 14-year-old preppy blonde girl???

Toddler probably has a better credit score than you do, loser.

 

You blatantly disregarded two lengthy, intelligent messages.  You're a troll, and SHOULD be banned. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

22 minutes ago, _SP_ said:

"WOKE"???  Did you seriously just use that term? Are you a 14-year-old preppy blonde girl???

Toddler probably has a better credit score than you do, loser.

 

You blatantly disregarded two lengthy, intelligent messages.  You're a troll, and SHOULD be banned. 

In all fairness, so should you. You've contributed just as much to this thread going off the rails, breaking forum rules left and right. 

[Oldtimehockey97 3]

21 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Me get the ban slam? The only one who's woke around here? Not likely brother. There's a new woke NHL in town, and all these old cracka's be mad as hell about it. Wish I could crack em in their cracka ass.

But does your toddler have any credit card debt?

You have a lot of hate. Try addressing the points made instead of spewing insults.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

In all fairness, so should you. You've contributed just as much to this thread going off the rails, breaking forum rules left and right. 

No s***. Just kill this thread already someone. 

[Oldtimehockey97 3]

59 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

In all fairness, so should you. You've contributed just as much to this thread going off the rails, breaking forum rules left and right. 

Disagree a bit here. The op wasn’t on the rails to begin with. He was making awful claims without substantive backing and insulting others throughout this entire thread.

[marcaractac 3,963]

11 minutes ago, Oldtimehockey97 said:

Disagree a bit here. The op wasn’t on the rails to begin with. He was making awful claims without substantive backing and insulting others throughout this entire thread.

Insulting in retaliation and keeping a thread off topic is still against forum rules.

f*** I miss having mods around regularly. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, _SP_ said:

"WOKE"???  Did you seriously just use that term? Are you a 14-year-old preppy blonde girl???

Nope. Just a woke man standing up for what's right.

2 hours ago, _SP_ said:

Toddler probably has a better credit score than you do, loser.

Show me more pictures of your house

2 hours ago, _SP_ said:

You blatantly disregarded two lengthy, intelligent messages.  You're a troll, and SHOULD be banned. 

You're incoherent ramblings about your credit score, home, toddler, dad being shot, and Orlando Florida are intelligent messages? I thought you were trolling and trying to derail the thread on purpose with all that quite honestly...

Can we get back to discussing how we can diversify the NHL please?

42 minutes ago, Oldtimehockey97 said:

You have a lot of hate. Try addressing the points made instead of spewing insults.

Insults like "sweetie"? Listen here snowflake, I'm not the one running around this thread telling folks to go F themselves and what not. That's SP. I'm doing the exact opposite. I'm taking a stand and fighting against hate in the NHL. You need to do some serious reflection and think about which camp you're in... the one full of hate, or the one against it...