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krsmith17

Red Wings players / prospects on loan

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15 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Lafreniere may be one of the rare forwards that didn't play much center growing up. Maybe he just prefers playing the wing. You can't seriously think that Lafreniere wasn't "good enough" to play center in the Q?...

I'm saying there were at least 2 other kids on that junior roster better at center on the top 2 lines than Laf. That doesn't give me confidence that he would be better at that position than the top 2 centers on ANY NHL team. That's why he wont be a center.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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59 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I'm saying there were at least 2 other kids on that junior roster better at center on the top 2 lines than Laf. That doesn't give me confidence that he would be better at that position than the top 2 centers on ANY NHL team. That's why he wont be a center.

I'm honestly not sure if you're serious, or just f***ing around... Do you actually think Lafreniere played wing in junior because he wasn't good enough to play center? Do you think the coach tried all of Lafreniere, Huntington, Pare and Bolduc at center, and Lafreniere wasn't as good as the other three at the position, so he moved him to wing? That's not at all how it works...

The Rangers have some very solid wingers in Panarin, Kakko, Kreider, Buchnevich, and Kravtsov, and not much at all at center behind Zibanejad. Again, I'm not saying that Lafreniere will play center at the NHL level, because I don't think he will, but he absolutely could. Any player that thinks the game at an elite level, and has the elite skill that Lafreniere possesses, can play all three forward positions.

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm honestly not sure if you're serious, or just f***ing around... Do you actually think Lafreniere played wing in junior because he wasn't good enough to play center? Do you think the coach tried all of Lafreniere, Huntington, Pare and Bolduc at center, and Lafreniere wasn't as good as the other three at the position, so he moved him to wing? That's not at all how it works...

The Rangers have some very solid wingers in Panarin, Kakko, Kreider, Buchnevich, and Kravtsov, and not much at all at center behind Zibanejad. Again, I'm not saying that Lafreniere will play center at the NHL level, because I don't think he will, but he absolutely could. Any player that thinks the game at an elite level, and has the elite skill that Lafreniere possesses, can play all three forward positions.

If his best position was center he would have played center. If he was the best forward on his team, he should have been 1C. He wasn't.

Why did Zadina fall to 6th 2 years ago? Because there were teams picking earlier who wanted CENTERS. Do you think Kotkaniemi and Hayton were better forwards than Zadina? If wingers at the junior level are good enough at center to play that position, then why was Zadina passed over multiple times? Why not draft the best forward, regardless of position then? Why do teams looking for centers take lesser ones over better wingers if they can all play the position?

Also, if the best forwards can all play center, then why was Lafreniere played on the wing? Everyone knows that C's are in greater demand than wingers. The draft has proven that over and over again. Wouldnt it be in both a players best interest and his junior team, to play their best forward at center knowing that that position is in higher demand and it drives up a player's draft position?

Bottom line: If your best forwards can play center, they do. It creates a greater demand for the player. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If his best position was center he would have played center. If he was the best forward on his team, he should have been 1C. He wasn't.

So you were serious...

Maybe, just maybe, Lafreniere would rather play on the wing, and it has nothing to do with him "not being able" to play center...

Lafreniere absolutely was the best player on his junior team since being drafted three years ago. Most (*not all*) top players choose to play center. Lafreniere (and Hall) obviously didn't.

42 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Why did Zadina fall to 6th 2 years ago? Because there were teams picking earlier who wanted CENTERS.

What does Zadina have to do with any of this?

43 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Do you think Kotkaniemi and Hayton were better forwards than Zadina? 

No I don't.

43 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If wingers at the junior level are good enough at center to play that position, then why was Zadina passed over multiple times?

I'm not saying all wingers could or should transition to center. Zadina probably wouldn't make a very good center. Lafreniere on the other hand, would without a doubt.

48 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Why not draft the best forward, regardless of position then?

You mean the thing that I always advocate to do? Take best player available, regardless of position?

49 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Why do teams looking for centers take lesser ones over better wingers if they can all play the position?

Teams should never do this. But again, I'm not saying all wingers would transition to center seamlessly. The elite one's with hockey IQ off the charts absolutely would though.

52 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Also, if the best forwards can all play center, then why was Lafreniere played on the wing? Everyone knows that C's are in greater demand than wingers. The draft has proven that over and over again. Wouldnt it be in both a players best interest and his junior team, to play their best forward at center knowing that that position is in higher demand and it drives up a player's draft position?

Again, I would assume that Lafreniere would just prefer to play on the wing, because if he wanted to transition to center three years ago, he would have, with ease.

Also, all three forward positions are way more fluid in today's game than they ever have before. Players are never locked in to certain positions on the ice like they once were. It's a lot more free wheeling and cycling in all three zones.

This is all a huge reason I don't get too hung up on our center depth, and just want elite players regardless of position. Wingers can drive play just as well as centers, the way the game is played nowadays. If we have above average, but not elite centers, and elite, play driving wingers, we should be in good shape. Ideally your best players are centers, but they don't have to be to have success.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Bottom line: If your best forwards can play center, they do. It creates a greater demand for the player. 

The only one that really benefits from the "greater demand" is the player's agent though. Maybe Lafreniere's agent has recommended him switching to the middle, but maybe Lafreniere has no interest in it, and knows that as great as he is / will be, he will be in great demand regardless of position.

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19 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm honestly not sure if you're serious, or just f***ing around... Do you actually think Lafreniere played wing in junior because he wasn't good enough to play center? Do you think the coach tried all of Lafreniere, Huntington, Pare and Bolduc at center, and Lafreniere wasn't as good as the other three at the position, so he moved him to wing? That's not at all how it works...

The Rangers have some very solid wingers in Panarin, Kakko, Kreider, Buchnevich, and Kravtsov, and not much at all at center behind Zibanejad. Again, I'm not saying that Lafreniere will play center at the NHL level, because I don't think he will, but he absolutely could. Any player that thinks the game at an elite level, and has the elite skill that Lafreniere possesses, can play all three forward positions.

Almost true.  There are some elite wingers that would make mediocre centers.  Not many, but the Shanahan, Hull, etc. type of guys come to mind.

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2 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Almost true.  There are some elite wingers that would make mediocre centers.  Not many, but the Shanahan, Hull, etc. type of guys come to mind.

I agree, and I've said as much in previous posts. The key part of that post that you missed is "thinks the game at an elite level". Although Shanahan and Hull were both smart offensive players, I wouldn't say either had elite hockey IQ. Neither were particularly great passers or skaters. Both were elite because of their scoring ability. Shanahan was an elite power-forward, and Hull had an elite shot. Both traits of an elite winger. Not so much a center. 

Lafreniere on the other hand, has all the key attributes of an elite center, but for whatever reason has played his entire career on the wing. Same goes for Hall and Rantanen and a few others. Unbelievable wingers, and if they had switched to center years ago, would be elite centers.

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9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree, and I've said as much in previous posts. The key part of that post that you missed is "thinks the game at an elite level". Although Shanahan and Hull were both smart offensive players, I wouldn't say either had elite hockey IQ. Neither were particularly great passers or skaters. Both were elite because of their scoring ability. Shanahan was an elite power-forward, and Hull had an elite shot. Both traits of an elite winger. Not so much a center. 

Lafreniere on the other hand, has all the key attributes of an elite center, but for whatever reason has played his entire career on the wing. Same goes for Hall and Rantanen and a few others. Unbelievable wingers, and if they had switched to center years ago, would be elite centers.

Agreed on all of that.  Laffy is a great forward.  He will excel in any position.

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btt

as bad as all this covid-s*** is, there´s one good thing about it. We can watch quite a lot of our prospects in the SHL. On tuesday we will have a matchup of Berggren vs Veleno and  Seider vs Johansson. Brome had a goal and an assist yesterday, to give us two prospects in the top 10 in scoring. Update of our Prospects in the SHL

Berggren 10gp 2g 14a 16p +4

Brome 10gp 3g 8a 11p +6

Raymond 11gp 3g 2a 5p +3

Seider 4gp 1g 3a 4p +4

Johannson 11gp 1g 3a 4p +2

Veleno 5gp 1g 1a 2p -2

other Soderblom,Grewe, Setkov, Niederbach (playing minor roles on their teams)

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1 hour ago, ely s said:

Berggren 10gp 2g 14a 16p +4

Brome 10gp 3g 8a 11p +6

Raymond 11gp 3g 2a 5p +3

Seider 4gp 1g 3a 4p +4

Johannson 11gp 1g 3a 4p +2

Veleno 5gp 1g 1a 2p -2

other Soderblom,Grewe, Setkov, Niederbach (playing minor roles on their teams)

I know Wallinder hasn't played any SHL games yet, but he's worth mentioning. He's been playing mostly in the J20 (3GP - 1G - 3A - 4PTS) and Allsvenskan (6GP - 0G - 1A - 1PT)

Niederbach has technically played two SHL games as the 13th forward, but only a combined *6 second* in those two games... However he's been dominating the J20 (15GP - 9G - 17A - 26PTS). He also has 1 goal and 3 assists through the first two periods in today's game.

Also, just a note on Berggren's dominance. He currently sits 3rd in SHL scoring, the two ahead of him, are Marek Hrivik (2 points ahead, averaging 9 minutes per game more, 9 years older) and Carter Camper (1point ahead, 1 more game played, averaging 7 minutes per game more, 12 years older). The only other U25 player in the top 15, is Berggren's center, Andreas Wingerli (23). Berggren doing this as a 20 year old, averaging around 14 minutes per night (less than anyone else in the top 25) is pretty f***ing impressive...

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yeah, Berggren looks like the real deal, always going hard for the net, high end vision and for his size really strong on his skates, hard to knock off the puck. He will be a real nice addition to our forward group come TDL.

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How is his defensive game?

32 minutes ago, ely s said:

yeah, Berggren looks like the real deal, always going hard for the net, high end vision and for his size really strong on his skates, hard to knock off the puck. He will be a real nice addition to our forward group come TDL.

 

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let´s put it this way, his offense is his defense. he is often the one carrying the puck out of the zone, going along the boards at full speed, able to hold onto the puck and that way avoiding to play defense. Without the puck he is a bit of a hunter, chasing the puck, not afraid to play the body. Able to stickhandle the puck of opponents. I wouldn´t call his defensive game a strength but it´s not a liability as well.

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