• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
blueadams

Yzerman's 5th Year (2023-24) -- Looking ahead..

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Ever since Yzerman took the GM job, I've said -- "fifth year."  2023-24.  That's when we should be competitive.  And that's the year I've always kind of looked at with regard to our rebuild, roster outlook, etc.  Prospects are just that, 'prospects'.  High 1st and 2nd rd picks you sort of expect to at least be on the big roster after a few yrs of development (some 1st rd picks a little sooner).  Could be right, could be wrong.  Later round sleepers, no one knows.  I don't know, you don't know, Yzerman doesn't know, the prospects don't know.  No one knows!  Still though, I like looking ahead..  just for the sake of sort of thinking about what we still might need to add. 

NHL-bound 2nd and later rd. picks -- 18yr olds -- they usually need 1 or 2 yrs of college or junior play combined with 1 or 2 yrs of AHL play before being NHL regulars.  Guys drafted yesterday, they'll have their 3 yrs of post-draft development under their belts entering 2023-24 training camp.  2021 1st rd pick, maybe 2022 1st rd pick -- they could be on the roster for the 2023-24 season.  Projecting future 2nd and later rd picks to be on that 2023-24 roster is a tad unrealistic, however.  With that being said..  let's take a look ahead.

FORWARDS:

.....C:

..........Larkin will be 27, and presumably in his prime, come 2023-24.  I think he'll be a solid top-6 center.  Niederbach will be 21 and ready to roll.  I haven't heard anyone on the Wings' side call him anything other than a center.  I'd expect him to look like a 3rd line center.  Veleno and Rasmussen -- the Holland guys -- will be 23 and 24.  One of them will probably be a solid 4th line center by then.  The other could possibly be kicked over to the wing.  I do think the outside addition of a second top-6 center will be necessary though.  

.....LW:

..........Raymond will be 21; he's probably our #1 overall prospect now.  Bertuzzi, our All-Star, will be 28 and still in his prime.  Mastrosimone and Hanas -- Yzerman 2nd rd picks -- will be 22 and 21 by then.  Pretty clear who the 4 leaders in the clubhouse are at LW.  Raymond should be a legit 1.  Bertuzzi's already a legit 2.  Mastro and Hanas seem to me to project just fine as bottom-6 LW's.  Cool as far as I can foresee.  

.....RW:

..........Mantha will be 29 and still in his prime (there is a chance he or Bert, or even Larkin..  could be too expensive to keep as FA's after the 22-23 season??).  Zadina will be 23 and I'd imagine will be a very solid top-6 guy.  The odd center out ^ (Rasmussen, Veleno or Niederbach) could be a fine bottom-six RW.  And though he hasn't played much on the right-side, if he's not too expensive to resign, I do like Fabbri, who will only be 27.  Besides these would-be top-8 W's I've mentioned, Soderblom is the guy I really like.

DEFENSE:

.....LD:

..........Wallinder will be 21, Johansson will be 22, Viro will be 21, Sebrango will be 21, McIsaac will be 23, Cholowski will be 25.  I still think we need to add a top-pair LD from somewhere, but at least two of these guys will be solid NHL'ers by 2023-24.

.....RD:

..........Seider will be 22; legit top-pair RHD.  Hronek will be 25; legit second-pair RHD.  Tuomisto will be 22...  could be a legit third-pair RHD?  If not, there's a lot of nice prospects on the left-side, and Wallinder can play on the right-side.  Lindstrom will be 24.  Berglund will be 22.  I think we look okay on the right side.  

GOALIE:

..........Bednar will be 21 in 2023-24.  He's the only legit G prospect we have in the system, IMO.  And even 2023-24 is probably too early for him to be a backup.  Larsson, some of these other guys..  maybe one looks solid enough to be your #2 by 2023-24.  But an outside starter is most definitely necessary to bring in..  and it's probably too late to draft one that'll be ready in time for Yzerman's fifth season.  We'll be looking to FA's or trades for a #1 goalie soon.

**********

Stupid projection (just to visualize the above):

Raymond---Larkin---Mantha
Bertuzzi---'21/22 1st---Zadina
Mastro---Niederbach---Fabbri
Hanas---Veleno---Rasmussen/Soderblom

'21/22 1st---Seider
Johansson---Hronek
Wallinder/Viro/Sebrango/McIsaac/Cholowski---Tuomisto/Wallinder/Lindstrom/Berglund

FA/Trade #1G??
FA/Trade/Larsson/Other??
 

Edited by blueadams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much can happen it's hard to say.

I think Berggren fits somewhere in this future line up, or hope may be the better word. He feels like something between Arvidsson and Olofsson, closer to Olofsson in my opinion.

At this point for goalies, it feels like we are going to plug and pray for something. Which I guess is what most do.

I like a lot of our D, I can admit I wasn't on the Seider train at first. I like what I've been hearing as of late.

Regardless of what people say, you can't just draft and hope. Trading and signing the right FAs at the right time will be key as well. 

I do hope people can get off of the train that we need EVERY thing now. I think we are set at Wingers for a bit. One step at a time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anthony Mantha - Dylan Larkin - Filip Zadina

Lucas Raymond - Theodor Niederbach - Jonatan Berggren

Tyler Bertuzzi - Joe Veleno - Robby Fabbri

Givani Smith - Michael Rasmussen - Keinan Draper

Robert Mastrosimone / Albin Grewe

 

William Wallinder - Moritz Seider

Albert Johansson - Filip Hronek

Dennis Cholowski - Jared McIsaac

Antti Tuomisto

 

Jan Bednar

Filip Larsson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Anthony Mantha - Dylan Larkin - Filip Zadina

Lucas Raymond - Theodor Niederbach - Jonatan Berggren

Tyler Bertuzzi - Joe Veleno - Robby Fabbri

Givani Smith - Michael Rasmussen - Keinan Draper

Robert Mastrosimone / Albin Grewe

 

William Wallinder - Moritz Seider

Albert Johansson - Filip Hronek

Dennis Cholowski - Jared McIsaac

Antti Tuomisto

 

Jan Bednar

Filip Larsson

I found something we agree on, I like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, blueadams said:

Ever since Yzerman took the GM job, I've said -- "fifth year."  2023-24.  That's when we should be competitive.  And that's the year I've always kind of looked at with regard to our rebuild, roster outlook, etc.  Prospects are just that, 'prospects'.  High 1st and 2nd rd picks you sort of expect to at least be on the big roster after a few yrs of development (some 1st rd picks a little sooner).  Could be right, could be wrong.  Later round sleepers, no one knows.  I don't know, you don't know, Yzerman doesn't know, the prospects don't know.  No one knows!  Still though, I like looking ahead..  just for the sake of sort of thinking about what we still might need to add. 

I think 6 years would be more appropriate, I just have a feeling 2020-2021 will be a lost season.

We have too many players in Europe that are under contract until March,2021+ any playoffs.

SHL  (Non return contract)

Johansson,Veleno,Seider,and Brome

Hockeyallsvenskan (Sweden) (Non return Contract)

Larsson and Lindstrom

Ice Hocky League (Austria)

Rasmussen

Czech

Hronek and Zadina

Lii

McIsaac. ( I believe this is a no return contract)

So we have to fill spots with RFA/UFA or bring up from Grand Rapids to fill spots.

After 2020-2021 I hope we can see improvement and a clearer picture of where this team is heading starting the 2021-2022 season. This is where I think we see Seider and Raymond up. Quite possibly Veleno, Lindstrom, Johansson, and others.

Some of your other thoughts.

Definitely a top 6 center.

I believe Seider is our top prospect.

Need a top pair LHD

 

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Anthony Mantha - Dylan Larkin - Filip Zadina

Lucas Raymond - Theodor Niederbach - Jonatan Berggren

Tyler Bertuzzi - Joe Veleno - Robby Fabbri

Givani Smith - Michael Rasmussen - Keinan Draper

Robert Mastrosimone / Albin Grewe

 

William Wallinder - Moritz Seider

Albert Johansson - Filip Hronek

Dennis Cholowski - Jared McIsaac

Antti Tuomisto

 

Jan Bednar

Filip Larsson

Looks good for 2021-2022.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, WRusco said:

I think 6 years would be more appropriate, I just have a feeling 2020-2021 will be a lost season.

We have too many players in Europe that are under contract until March,2021+ any playoffs.

2020-21 will be a lost season, but it was always going to be a lost season anyway. I'm not sure why all of our top young players / prospects playing overseas would delay the end of the rebuild though. Everything should still be right on track. Most of these players are in great situations to further their development.

9 minutes ago, WRusco said:

After 2020-2021 I hope we can see improvement and a clearer picture of where this team is heading starting the 2021-2022 season. This is where I think we see Seider and Raymond up. Quite possibly Veleno, Lindstrom, Johansson, and others.

This, I agree with. We should see a pretty huge turnover in 2021. Seider, Zadina and Raymond should be locks. Veleno and Rasmussen will be likely. Berggren and McIsaac will have a chance. Johansson, Wallinder, and Niederbach will likely need more time though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

2020-21 will be a lost season, but it was always going to be a lost season anyway. I'm not sure why all of our top young players / prospects playing overseas would delay the end of the rebuild though. Everything should still be right on track. Most of these players are in great situations to further their development.

This, I agree with. We should see a pretty huge turnover in 2021. Seider, Zadina and Raymond should be locks. Veleno and Rasmussen will be likely. Berggren and McIsaac will have a chance. Johansson, Wallinder, and Niederbach will likely need more time though.

I'm happy these prospects are getting playing time.

The thing I wonder about is who didn't get sent and what is their future is here. Svechnikov (sp) comes to mind.

Yes, 2021-2022 will be exciting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

2020-21 will be a lost season, but it was always going to be a lost season anyway. I'm not sure why all of our top young players / prospects playing overseas would delay the end of the rebuild though. Everything should still be right on track. Most of these players are in great situations to further their development.

This, I agree with. We should see a pretty huge turnover in 2021. Seider, Zadina and Raymond should be locks. Veleno and Rasmussen will be likely. Berggren and McIsaac will have a chance. Johansson, Wallinder, and Niederbach will likely need more time though.

I believe this as well. I kind of think this may even help them more. I don't know the numbers, but I'd like to see the numbers for players that come from pro euro leagues that make significant impact vs AHL/NCAA players that make significant impact.

Edited by xault

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Just sayin' ......

"Just sayin" what though? That all of these players won't turn out? Well, no s***... The thing though is that about a third of them already have, and another few are as close to locks as you can get in a prospect. Of course a few will bust, but even if a few more of these players hit, I think we're in pretty good shape. There will also be trades in and out from the group, as well as the next few drafts and free agency, which will no doubt affect how things will look 3-5 years from now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

"Just sayin" what though? That all of these players won't turn out? Well, no s***... The thing though is that about a third of them already have, and another few are as close to locks as you can get in a prospect. Of course a few will bust, but even if a few more of these players hit, I think we're in pretty good shape. There will also be trades in and out from the group, as well as the next few drafts and free agency, which will no doubt affect how things will look 3-5 years from now.

We just drafted Neiderbach and Wallinder ffs. 

I mean I get it. It's fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

We just drafted Neiderbach and Wallinder ffs.  

Again, I'm not really sure what your point is?...

14 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I mean I get it.

I don't think you do...

15 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

It's fun. 

It is. You should try it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, WRusco said:

If Raymond pans out to the player we think he will.

If Neiderbach makes the team, even as a bottom 6. And Wallinder makes it, even as 2 or 3 line D, this will be an awesome draft.

I agree. However, we need a huge draft to catapult this team back into contention.

Ideally, Raymond is an elite, top 10 winger in the league, Wallinder is a top pair defenseman to pair with Seider, Niederbach is a middle six center, and one two more players makes it as depth players...

That's a tall order, but not out of the realm of possibility...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree. However, we need a huge draft to catapult this team back into contention.

Ideally, Raymond is an elite, top 10 winger in the league, Wallinder is a top pair defenseman to pair with Seider, Niederbach is a middle six center, and one two more players makes it as depth players...

That's a tall order, but not out of the realm of possibility...

I don't really get the high expectations on Wallinder?  I see the prospect reports, and those are all very glowing.  But just watching him on tape..  I see a guy with a lot of tools who needs A LOT of work..  and who isn't eve going to be a major offensive factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree. However, we need a huge draft to catapult this team back into contention.

Ideally, Raymond is an elite, top 10 winger in the league, Wallinder is a top pair defenseman to pair with Seider, Niederbach is a middle six center, and one two more players makes it as depth players...

That's a tall order, but not out of the realm of possibility...

Just getting 3 players in 1 draft year to make the Big Club is huge. 

I see Raymond as a top line Forward.

Wallinder as a 2nd line D. He has a lot to work on. The tools are there.

Neiderbach has the tools, but needs work. If he make a real good 3rd line center, I'm happy.

I see 2 more years of top 4 Draft pick's. Great chances for a top 6 center, a top 6 forward and a top pair LHD. 1 or 2 of 3 Very, very good to Elite. 1 or 2 of 3 Very good to very, very good.

2022-2023 season I us making large steps toward play-off contenders.

Edited by WRusco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree. However, we need a huge draft to catapult this team back into contention.

Ideally, Raymond is an elite, top 10 winger in the league, Wallinder is a top pair defenseman to pair with Seider, Niederbach is a middle six center, and one two more players makes it as depth players...

That's a tall order, but not out of the realm of possibility...

I think all of that happening is out of the realm of possibility, actually. I'd be ecstatic if two of those would become real.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, blueadams said:

I don't really get the high expectations on Wallinder?  I see the prospect reports, and those are all very glowing.  But just watching him on tape..  I see a guy with a lot of tools who needs A LOT of work..  and who isn't eve going to be a major offensive factor.

Every player drafted on Wednesday needs a lot of work, including Wallinder.

I don't really have any expectations on Wallinder or Niederbach, or anyone outside of Raymond at this point. I have very little to base an opinion on. I've read up a bit on all of the prospects that we just drafted, and watched clips on the top guys, but at this point, it's just hope...

A player drafted 32nd overall, that some had ranked in the later 1st, definitely could be a top pair defenseman. I'm sure Yzerman and his staff believe he could get there. Let's hope he does...

27 minutes ago, WRusco said:

Just getting 3 players in 1 draft year to make the Big Club is huge. 

I see Raymond as a top line Forward.

Wallinder as a 2nd line D. He has a lot to work on. The tools are there.

Neiderbach has the tools, but needs work. If he make a real good 3rd line center, I'm happy.

I see 2 more years of top 4 Draft pick's. Great chances for a top 6 center, a top 6 forward and a top pair LHD. 1 or 2 of 3 Very, very good to Elite. 1 or 2 of 3 Very good to very, very good.

2022-2023 season I us making large steps toward play-off contenders.

I agree that getting three NHL players out of one draft is huge. I'm just saying that we need some of these players to become elite. We need Raymond to reach his ultimate ceiling, and we need at least one or two of the other players to exceed expectations.

For what it's worth, I completely agree with your assessment on all three of Raymond, Wallinder and Niederbach. I just hope all three exceed expectations, and when we look back on this draft in 5 years, wonder how the Red Wings got three star players at 4, 32 and 51...

25 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

I think all of that happening is out of the realm of possibility, actually. I'd be ecstatic if two of those would become real.  

Probable? No. Possible? Absolutely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

3 biggest holes are still 2C, 1/2 D, G. D hole will probably be filled next draft. G hole can be filled thru free agency. 2C may require a trade. Depending on how well the D prospects turn out, Hronek or Seider could be traded to get that.

Our 3 biggest holes is an Elite #1 Center. Larkin ain't it. The only reason Larkin is #1 is there is no one better.

A high level LHD to go with Moritz. Everything I see on Seider is a minute eating, very high level top line center.Won't be traded. To go with this thought, a very good LHD #2 line to go with Hronek. I see Hronek as the anchor of the #2 lin. Won't be traded.

2 G Draft or free agent. ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WRusco said:

Our 3 biggest holes is an Elite #1 Center. Larkin ain't it. The only reason Larkin is #1 is there is no one better.

A high level LHD to go with Moritz. Everything I see on Seider is a minute eating, very high level top line center.Won't be traded. To go with this thought, a very good LHD #2 line to go with Hronek. I see Hronek as the anchor of the #2 lin. Won't be traded.

2 G Draft or free agent. ??

If the team ends up with a surplus of top 4 D, particularly if both Seider and Hronek turn out to be top pair caliber D, I would absolutely consider trading one for a high end center. It would be a hockey trade like Nashville and Columbus did a couple years ago. And a top pair caliber RH Dman is worth a 1C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, ChadBergevin said:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Ryan - Fabbri - Zadina
Helm - Filppula - Namestnikov
Timashov - Nielsen - Glendening
Gagner/Erne

Dekesyer - Hronek
Nemeth - Stetcher
Staal - Merrill
Biega

Greiss
Bernier

FaBbRi IsN't A cEnTeR!¡!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ChadBergevin said:

Are you acting retarded on purpose?? Yzerman literally said Blash is gonna try Fabbri at C. 

"What debate is this? Fabbri clearly slides back to wing with the namestnikov addition."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this