Rags Rag Rips Stevie

[Scott R Lucidi 424]

https://bluelinestation.com/2020/10/29/steve-yzerman-upset-the-new-york-rangers-won-the-draft-lottery/

 

Not Cool.

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

https://bluelinestation.com/2020/10/29/steve-yzerman-upset-the-new-york-rangers-won-the-draft-lottery/

 

Not Cool.

Reading the responses by NYR fans appear pretty much sympathetic towards our situation, and most gave props on Yzerman’s track record as a GM, and pointed out that he had only been in charge since last spring/summer.

 

The writer may be a hack, but the fans were top notch.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

The writer is a hack.

[Scott R Lucidi 424]

6 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Reading the responses by NYR fans appear pretty much sympathetic towards our situation, and most gave props on Yzerman’s track record as a GM, and pointed out that he had only been in charge since last spring/summer.

 

The writer may be a hack, but the fans were top notch.

Yah, saw that.  Just think it's insane for a writer for arguably the WORST NHL team in league history to pop off on Detroit and Yzerman.  It's obvious that the league is feeding talent to its big market teams right now, which is a smart move considering the NHL is not in great shape comparative to the other sports.  I would do the same thing as a business, so I dont blame them.  Just annoyed that this writer seems to be focusing on our suck instead of his own.

[AtlantaHotWings 974]

Rip on Kens picks other than Larkin yet saying Point was still available after Larkin ...umm remind me the GM that drafted Point. 

Wonder if we had this little tidbit.. for a 2nd and first overall in less than 3 years. 

Curious how many cups have the Rangers won since 94?

[Jaymister 71]

Nice try! Blaming Steve for Holland’s draft blunders 

[chaps80 1,591]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:32 AM, AtlantaHotWings said:

Rip on Kens picks other than Larkin yet saying Point was still available after Larkin ...umm remind me the GM that drafted Point. 

Wonder if we had this little tidbit.. for a 2nd and first overall in less than 3 years. 

Curious how many cups have the Rangers won since 94?

Could have had Vasilevskiy too if Holland didn't trade the Wings 2012 first to Tampa ( GM Yzerman) for Kyle Quincey. By saying COULD, that means Holland may not have wanted him anyway, or he may have been gone before the 20th selection came up. There's all kinds of past draft/trade scenarios that could have the Wings as a contender right now instead of a cellar dweller. 

How many Cups have the Rags won in their entire history? 4, as an OG 6 franchise. 1941-1994 was one long ass draught. And it's been 26 years since that draught ended. Lundqvist carried them to within striking distance, but the teams in front of him could never help him out when it counted. Wasted his whole HOF career there. Watch Lafreniere want out eventually..that franchise is cursed.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

39 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Could have had Vasilevskiy too if Holland didn't trade the Wings 2012 first to Tampa ( GM Yzerman) for Kyle Quincey. By saying COULD, that means Holland may not have wanted him anyway, or he may have been gone before the 20th selection came up. There's all kinds of past draft/trade scenarios that could have the Wings as a contender right now instead of a cellar dweller. 

How many Cups have the Rags won in their entire history? 4, as an OG 6 franchise. 1941-1994 was one long ass draught. And it's been 26 years since that draught ended. Lundqvist carried them to within striking distance, but the teams in front of him could never help him out when it counted. Wasted his whole HOF career there. Watch Lafreniere want out eventually..that franchise is cursed.

Oh c'mon. Trading away a 1st for Quincey was a brilliant move. It saved the franchise.

[F.Michael 4,590]

On 11/10/2020 at 1:02 AM, Jaymister said:

Nice try! Blaming Steve for Holland’s draft blunders 

While I agree our drafting with Holland at the helm hasn't been spectacular (some will point in the direction of our scouts) - I feel the draft as a whole is a total crapshoot as to who's available, and how they mature over a handful of years after they're drafted.

Add to that - the desire to keep the playoff streak alive makes it more challenging for any GM - including overpaying for mediocre talent in order to limp into the playoffs.

In some way I sorta feel bad for Holland - did his job well enough to have the respect of his peers over many years - however as soon as the 'prodigal son' returned - well we knew Holland would either have to move upstairs, or find a new gig elsewhere if he wanted to manage another franchise.

[ely s 457]

the last few years of Holland were halfhearted bullsh*t, he overpayed veterans, didn´t value our picks enough and was making wrong decisions in bunches.The deals for Weiss,Quincey,Cole and Legwand broke this franchise (ok, with Cole was a bit bad luck because of his injury) in addition to Hollands bad cap management and unwillingness to shake up the roster. When he was with it again, when streak ended and he was on full rebuild his work started to be better again. Don´t get me wrong, I still think that Holland is a good GM and what he has achieved is HoF worthy, so thank you KH, but it was time to move on, bring in a fresh broom to sweep out the dust and have a restart.

Edited December 29, 2020 by ely s

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

10 hours ago, ely s said:

the last few years of Holland were halfhearted bullsh*t, he overpayed veterans, didn´t value our picks enough and was making wrong decisions in bunches.The deals for Weiss,Quincey,Cole and Legwand broke this franchise (ok, with Cole was a bit bad luck because of his injury) in addition to Hollands bad cap management and unwillingness to shake up the roster. When he was with it again, when streak ended and he was on full rebuild his work started to be better again. Don´t get me wrong, I still think that Holland is a good GM and what he has achieved is HoF worthy, so thank you KH, but it was time to move on, bring in a fresh broom to sweep out the dust and have a restart.

I disagree. Weiss was a free agent signing that would have been a great fit if he could've stayed healthy. His unfortunate buyout never put the team in cap jeopardy.

A mid first round draft pick is worth giving up for a young 2nd pair d-man, which is what Quincey appeared to be developing into after he left Detroit. That trade was sound in principle. The mistake Holland made was having to give up a valuable asset to re-acquire a player he never should have lost in the first place.

The Legwand trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to. Legwand played well, and the Wings would not have made the playoffs without it.

The Cole trade, as you pointed out, was just bad luck.

Holland made those trades because he was expected to make the playoffs. You can debate the wisdom of that strategy, but I refuse to fault a GM for making moves to appease upper management and ownership. Its his job to follow the direction of his superiors.

[ely s 457]

Babcock made Weiss a bad choice, because he was in his doghouse all the time and signing  ~30+ year old at best middle six players to four and five year contracts at $4+m, is not what a good GM does. Abby, Big E, Weiss, Nielsen, they where all bad signings and trying to extend the streak does not necessarily mean to keep mediocre players for good money. He could have easily "overpayed" a real good FA and signed two cheaper versions of our mediocre players and we might have been better of, but that´s speculation anyway. All I´m saying is, that if his job was to keep the streak alive, he failed because of the way he took to handle things. He kept players out of solidarity and paid them for former accomplishments not what they where actually worth instead of letting them walk. That had to do with KH´s approach and not with ownership.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 12/30/2020 at 8:13 AM, ely s said:

Babcock made Weiss a bad choice, because he was in his doghouse all the time and signing  ~30+ year old at best middle six players to four and five year contracts at $4+m, is not what a good GM does. Abby, Big E, Weiss, Nielsen, they where all bad signings and trying to extend the streak does not necessarily mean to keep mediocre players for good money. He could have easily "overpayed" a real good FA and signed two cheaper versions of our mediocre players and we might have been better of, but that´s speculation anyway. All I´m saying is, that if his job was to keep the streak alive, he failed because of the way he took to handle things. He kept players out of solidarity and paid them for former accomplishments not what they where actually worth instead of letting them walk. That had to do with KH´s approach and not with ownership.

I nearly forgot about Weiss. He was a great player when Holland signed him, just didn't work out cause of Babcock, like you said. When Babcock actually gave him some leeway he played well. Also, sometimes when players leave teams they've been with for years to somewhere completely new, it doesn't work out for them. Nielson is another perfect example of that, and a dumb snap signing to try to offset the loss of Datsyuk. Had Holland not tried to extend the streak, signing guys like Weiss and Nielson and trading picks for guys like Legwand and Cole at the deadlines just for the sake of making the playoffs with no real chance of winning the cup, this team would probably be contending again right now. Should have started to plan rebuild around 2012 after losing 4-1 to the preds in the first round. 

[kliq 3,755]

On 1/26/2021 at 11:39 PM, chaps80 said:

I nearly forgot about Weiss. He was a great player when Holland signed him, just didn't work out cause of Babcock, like you said. When Babcock actually gave him some leeway he played well. Also, sometimes when players leave teams they've been with for years to somewhere completely new, it doesn't work out for them. Nielson is another perfect example of that, and a dumb snap signing to try to offset the loss of Datsyuk. Had Holland not tried to extend the streak, signing guys like Weiss and Nielson and trading picks for guys like Legwand and Cole at the deadlines just for the sake of making the playoffs with no real chance of winning the cup, this team would probably be contending again right now. Should have started to plan rebuild around 2012 after losing 4-1 to the preds in the first round. 

Come on man, this fan fiction has been debunked. Jimmy D himself has said that he and Holland pitched a re-build to Mr. I and they were turned down.

When DD tried to start a re-build with the Tigers, Mr. I fired him.
 

Some of the specific moves are definitely on Holland, but you can’t blame him for the direction given to him by ownership.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 2/13/2021 at 2:36 AM, kliq said:

Come on man, this fan fiction has been debunked. Jimmy D himself has said that he and Holland pitched a re-build to Mr. I and they were turned down.

When DD tried to start a re-build with the Tigers, Mr. I fired him.
 

Some of the specific moves are definitely on Holland, but you can’t blame him for the direction given to him by ownership.

They weren't bad moves relative to the process.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

They weren't bad moves relative to the process.

Some were, some weren't.

I can't praise the Abby, Helm, or Nielsen contacts, they were all bad deals, and not just in hindsight. 

The Legwand trade I get, we were running Andersson as our 1C, we needed to fill that hole.

The Weiss signing was a good one, you can't blame Holland for the fact that his body fell apart. Some point to his injury the year before, but that was a wrist injury and had no bearing on what happened to him.

As for the Zidlicky and Cole trades, go to threads from that day, the majority of fans loved those trades. It wasnt until our first round thrashing that fans decided they were bad.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

17 hours ago, kliq said:

Some were, some weren't.

I can't praise the Abby, Helm, or Nielsen contacts, they were all bad deals, and not just in hindsight. 

The Legwand trade I get, we were running Andersson as our 1C, we needed to fill that hole.

The Weiss signing was a good one, you can't blame Holland for the fact that his body fell apart. Some point to his injury the year before, but that was a wrist injury and had no bearing on what happened to him.

As for the Zidlicky and Cole trades, go to threads from that day, the majority of fans loved those trades. It wasnt until our first round thrashing that fans decided they were bad.

I disagree. I dont think the Abby or Helm contracts had anything to do with the direction of the team. Rebuild or continue the streak, they both would have been overpaid either way as Holland wasn't very good at judging young talent about to hit UFA status.

As far as the Nielsen signing, it was streak related. He was brought in to replace Weiss, who was brought in to replace Filppula at 2C. Holland doesnt make that deal if the team was going into rebuild mode.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kliq 3,755]

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I disagree. I dont think the Abby or Helm contracts had anything to do with the direction of the team. Rebuild or continue the streak, they both would have been overpaid either way as Holland wasn't very good at judging young talent about to hit UFA status.

As far as the Nielsen signing, it was streak related. He was brought in to replace Weiss, who was brought in to replace Filppula at 2C. Holland doesnt make that deal if the team was going into rebuild mode.

I disagree and here is why. When you are a rebuilding team, you just dont sign guys to 7 year contracts unless they are young and a part of your core. Holland giving Abby that contract was because he wanted him around in short term, and he was willing to pay a price long term to do it.

Either way, I dont think you and I are really that far off with where we stand on Holland. Any disagreements seem to be more semantics. I was a fan of Holland and he made a lot of great moves, but I won't deny the bad moves he made.

You're right about Nielsen. It was a bad move IMO, but it definitely was streak/ownership related. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 hours ago, kliq said:

I disagree and here is why. When you are a rebuilding team, you just dont sign guys to 7 year contracts unless they are young and a part of your core. Holland giving Abby that contract was because he wanted him around in short term, and he was willing to pay a price long term to do it.

Either way, I dont think you and I are really that far off with where we stand on Holland. Any disagreements seem to be more semantics. I was a fan of Holland and he made a lot of great moves, but I won't deny the bad moves he made.

You're right about Nielsen. It was a bad move IMO, but it definitely was streak/ownership related. 

Abby was considered part of the future/core. That's why he got that contract.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Abby was considered part of the future/core. That's why he got that contract.

I feel like we’re just arguing semantics, I don’t even disagree with that.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 2/15/2021 at 12:16 AM, kliq said:

Some were, some weren't.

I can't praise the Abby, Helm, or Nielsen contacts, they were all bad deals, and not just in hindsight. 

The Legwand trade I get, we were running Andersson as our 1C, we needed to fill that hole.

The Weiss signing was a good one, you can't blame Holland for the fact that his body fell apart. Some point to his injury the year before, but that was a wrist injury and had no bearing on what happened to him.

As for the Zidlicky and Cole trades, go to threads from that day, the majority of fans loved those trades. It wasnt until our first round thrashing that fans decided they were bad.

I liked the Cole trade. But he only lasted three weeks and never played one playoff game.

[kliq 3,755]

21 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I liked the Cole trade. But he only lasted three weeks and never played one playoff game.

Unfortunately those are the bad breaks in sports. You can make the best deal in the world, but the player you acquire can get injured the next day. Sucks, but it is what it is.