2021 Draft

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Ya know who said Seider was the best Dman outside of Byram... before the draft?

Me.

I will hear your prayers, but I may not answer them, time permitting.

Maybe when you tell us for the 40th time it will finally sink in that you were right that one time. 

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

It's about asset management. Teams have learned since Carey Price was drafted that an elite goalie means jack squat if you don't have elite position players. And top end position players are harder to find later in the draft, unlike goalies. The three best goalies of the modern era are Luongo, Lundquist, and Price and NONE of them ever won anything. Corey Crawford had more Cups than all three combined and he's not even close to elite. Why do you think that is? I'll tell you why, it's more important to have a Duncan Keith or Jonathan Toews or Patrick Kane on your team than it is to have a Carey Price.

Keith was a 2nd rounder. 

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Just now, kipwinger said:

It's about asset management. Teams have learned since Carey Price was drafted that an elite goalie means jack squat if you don't have elite position players. And top end position players are harder to find later in the draft, unlike goalies. The three best goalies of the modern era are Luongo, Lundquist, and Price and NONE of them ever won anything. Corey Crawford had more Cups than all three combined and he's not even close to elite. Why do you think that is? I'll tell you why, it's more important to have a Duncan Keith or Jonathan Toews or Patrick Kane on your team than it is to have a Carey Price.

That’s on mtl for not drafting properly and  having an abundance of players 6 feet and under ... its on  teams for making the right picks and striking gold with later picks which dont always happen. You cant blame the rangers not winning the cup with lundqvist etc.. when it takes a whole team to win . Hasek with buffalo dominated the league for a decade with a s*** lineup but as soon as he came to detroit he won.

Its on yzerman to build a complete roster in all areas and we already have a #1 d guy imo in seider and if we add a #1 elite goalie with a solid d core which is where we’re headed and add raymond and future pieces we already have and through 22/23 drafts we’ll be in a great position

Again theres nobody here this draft that screams franchise elite talent that will be there at 6 from what many people are saying . Youd rather take a chance and end possiblly have another repeat of the rasmussen draft ? Cause i guarantee if wallstedt becomes a multiple vezina winner and our pick is a 3rd liner alot of ppl screaming we cant take a goalie will be pissed off we passed on him

Anyways we’ll see what yzerman thinks on draft day he knows better than any of us whats the best move to make

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I dislike Corey Pronman

Nobody likes corey matthews

[kipwinger 8,519]

5 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

That’s on mtl for not drafting properly and  having an abundance of players 6 feet and under ... its on  teams for making the right picks and striking gold with later picks which dont always happen. You cant blame the rangers not winning the cup with lundqvist etc.. when it takes a whole team to win . Hasek with buffalo dominated the league for a decade with a s*** lineup but as soon as he came to detroit he won.

Its on yzerman to build a complete roster in all areas and we already have a #1 d guy imo in seider and if we add a #1 elite goalie with a solid d core which is where we’re headed and add raymond and future pieces we already have and through 22/23 drafts we’ll be in a great position

Again theres nobody here this draft that screams franchise elite talent that will be there at 6 from what many people are saying . Youd rather take a chance and end possiblly have another repeat of the rasmussen draft ? Cause i guarantee if wallstedt becomes a multiple vezina winner and our pick is a 3rd liner alot of ppl screaming we cant take a goalie will be pissed off we passed on him

Anyways we’ll see what yzerman thinks on draft day he knows better than any of us whats the best move to make

Nobody likes corey matthews

1. Hasek was drafted 199th overall. That's exactly my point.

2. You're underselling this class. There are plenty of players we could draft at 6th overall that project as top pair, top line players. Just none that currently project as star players. The same was true in 2017 and plenty of stars emerged from that class. I'd rather have a Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson, Necas, Suzuki, Norris, etc. than a top goalie prospect. Why? Because it's easier to trade for a good starting goalie than a top line center or first pair defenseman.

3. Since you're asking, I'd rather take the chance that Kent Johnson is another Elias Pettersson than that Wallstedt is another Price.

4. As for the bolded, I'd rather we have a team that wins. I don't care about having the world's best goalie. I care about having the world's best team. Time and again the best teams win with average goalies. Almost never do the best goalies win with average teams. So who cares about the Vezina?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

1. Hasek was drafted 199th overall. That's exactly my point.

2. You're underselling this class. There are plenty of players we could draft at 6th overall that project as top pair, top line players. Just none that currently project as star players. The same was true in 2017 and plenty of stars emerged from that class. I'd rather have a Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson, Necas, Suzuki, Norris, etc. than a top goalie prospect. Why? Because it's easier to trade for a good starting goalie than a top line center or first pair defenseman.

3. Since you're asking, I'd rather take the chance that Kent Johnson is another Elias Pettersson than that Wallstedt is another Price.

4. As for the bolded, I'd rather we have a team that wins. I don't care about having the world's best goalie. I care about having the world's best team. Time and again the best teams win with average goalies. Almost never do the best goalies win with average teams. So who cares about the Vezina?

Exactly your point? As if its that easy to hit on? Again check out draft history past 20-25 yrs and see how well we been doing in regards to drafting goaltending 

Im not underselling anything this is from stuff ive read around and what many scouts have said on many podcasts ive heard . Why pick an eklund for example who ends up being a good 2nd liner if you can have one of the top goalie talents in the league? Sure youd rathee have a makar etc... but nothing’s saying theyll end up as good as those guys. Teams arent just giving away top end goalie talents

Dont think johnson can be anything close to pettersson so give me wallstedt any day . To each his own

You think i dont want us to win?i dont want to just win i want cups .  I want the best lineup possible and if we’re going to beat the likes of tampa , rangers, and up and coming teams we’ll need a top goaltender not some free agency back up tandem sharing duties and we have a golden opportunity to get an elite one with zero goalies In our pipeline . Almost like it was meant to be

We’ll see if yzerman differs from that take

 

[kipwinger 8,519]

8 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Exactly your point? As if its that easy to hit on? Again check out draft history past 20-25 yrs and see how well we been doing in regards to drafting goaltending 

Im not underselling anything this is from stuff ive read around and what many scouts have said on many podcasts ive heard . Why pick an eklund for example who ends up being a good 2nd liner if you can have one of the top goalie talents in the league? Sure youd rathee have a makar etc... but nothing’s saying theyll end up as good as those guys. Teams arent just giving away top end goalie talents

Dont think johnson can be anything close to pettersson so give me wallstedt any day . To each his own

You think i dont want us to win?i dont want to just win i want cups .  I want the best lineup possible and if we’re going to beat the likes of tampa , rangers, and up and coming teams we’ll need a top goaltender not some free agency back up tandem sharing duties and we have a golden opportunity to get an elite one with zero goalies In our pipeline . Almost like it was meant to be

We’ll see if yzerman differs from that take

 

He very obviously differs from that take considering he could have had Knight or Askarov the last two seasons, both of whom were more highly anticipated prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa, and he chose neither. People think that because Yzerman drafted a goalie in the first round one time that he's going to be inclined to reach on a goalie with a top ten pick now? Doubtful.

A top ten pick has only been used on a goalie three times since 2000, and not at all in the last 16 years. In the last 16 years, 30+ GMs made 160 top ten selections and NONE of them took a goalie. And yet, elite goalies still exist. That should probably tell you something.

FWIW one of those three guys (DiPietro) was a bust, and two (Fleury and Price) are Hall of Famers. ALL of them were considered better prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa. There's absolutely NO reason to think either of the two goalies this year will be a Fleury or a Price. It's a wasted pick. GMs know this, that's why they don't do it anymore.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

He very obviously differs from that take considering he could have had Knight or Askarov the last two seasons, both of whom were more highly anticipated prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa, and he chose neither. People think that because Yzerman drafted a goalie in the first round one time that he's going to be inclined to reach on a goalie with a top ten pick now? Doubtful.

A top ten pick has only been used on a goalie three times since 2000, and not at all in the last 16 years. In the last 16 years, 30+ GMs made 160 top ten selections and NONE of them took a goalie. And yet, elite goalies still exist. That should probably tell you something.

FWIW one of those three guys (DiPietro) was a bust, and two (Fleury and Price) are Hall of Famers. ALL of them were considered better prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa. There's absolutely NO reason to think either of the two goalies this year will be a Fleury or a Price. It's a wasted pick. GMs know this, that's why they don't do it anymore.

Well he knew we didnt have any #1 dman and he got his man in seider. He knew we didnt have a high end #1 line guy and he got his guy in Raymond. This year theres no one that screams high end #1 line guy or #1 d guy that will likely be there at 6 so he might turn to the #1 goalie need . Well most from what ive read say wallstedt is ahead of knight and askarov . Yzerman didnt draft a goalie prior cause we had alot of pressing needs and theyre were better options . Not this time around . We’ll see

There’s only 32 #1 goalies so obviously alot of teams wont pick a goalie in the top 10 , that being said theyre wasnt alot of talk of top end elite goalies being available which is why some years no one even took a goalie in the first round to begin with . When scouts have been super high on someone who can be a game changer goaltender they were picked high . I think in like the last 15 yrs malcolm subban was the only 1st round goalie selected who was basically a bust? And he was like pick 25-30 and not highly regarded . Mostly everyone else was a #1 goalie 

Ya We’ll see what happens , i think both goalies will be gone in the top 20 . Wallstedt is a stud and someone will see a 6’6 goalie and wet themselves although im not sold on him. Again We’ll see

[marcaractac 3,962]

46 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

He very obviously differs from that take considering he could have had Knight or Askarov the last two seasons, both of whom were more highly anticipated prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa, and he chose neither. People think that because Yzerman drafted a goalie in the first round one time that he's going to be inclined to reach on a goalie with a top ten pick now? Doubtful.

A top ten pick has only been used on a goalie three times since 2000, and not at all in the last 16 years. In the last 16 years, 30+ GMs made 160 top ten selections and NONE of them took a goalie. And yet, elite goalies still exist. That should probably tell you something.

FWIW one of those three guys (DiPietro) was a bust, and two (Fleury and Price) are Hall of Famers. ALL of them were considered better prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa. There's absolutely NO reason to think either of the two goalies this year will be a Fleury or a Price. It's a wasted pick. GMs know this, that's why they don't do it anymore.

Not to mention Fleury rode the bench for not one, but TWO Stanley Cups in Pittsburgh. 

[kipwinger 8,519]

34 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Well he knew we didnt have any #1 dman and he got his man in seider. He knew we didnt have a high end #1 line guy and he got his guy in Raymond. This year theres no one that screams high end #1 line guy or #1 d guy that will likely be there at 6 so he might turn to the #1 goalie need . Well most from what ive read say wallstedt is ahead of knight and askarov . Yzerman didnt draft a goalie prior cause we had alot of pressing needs and theyre were better options . Not this time around . We’ll see

There’s only 32 #1 goalies so obviously alot of teams wont pick a goalie in the top 10 , that being said theyre wasnt alot of talk of top end elite goalies being available which is why some years no one even took a goalie in the first round to begin with . When scouts have been super high on someone who can be a game changer goaltender they were picked high . I think in like the last 15 yrs malcolm subban was the only 1st round goalie selected who was basically a bust? And he was like pick 25-30 and not highly regarded . Mostly everyone else was a #1 goalie 

Ya We’ll see what happens , i think both goalies will be gone in the top 20 . Wallstedt is a stud and someone will see a 6’6 goalie and wet themselves although im not sold on him. Again We’ll see

No, they weren't. Again, only 3 goalies have been taken with a top 10 pick in 20 years. I might agree with your thought process if we were taking about the 28th pick or something. But we aren't. We're talking about the 6th, and NHL teams don't use top ten picks on goalies. It simply doesn't happen. There's probably a good reason for that.

[Dabura 12,207]

Bernier has performed remarkably well behind bad Wings teams. This season he was borderline Vezina-caliber, indisputably our MVP. Greiss got off to a really rough start this season, but he turned it around and played like the Greiss we thought we were getting when we signed him.

That's the case against taking Wallstedt in the top 10. Good goalies are always available. 2Cs and 2Ds? Not so much. If you want to trade for one (a 2C/2D), it's likely going to cost you at least one significant asset. If you want to sign one as a free agent, you're likely going to have to significantly overpay.

Is that an airtight argument? Nah. But GMs agree with it.

I'll add that even if we're thinking about positions of need, with goalie being a big one for us, we're basically one good player away from being set at center and one good player away from being set on defense.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Bernier has performed remarkably well behind bad Wings teams. This season he was borderline Vezina-caliber, indisputably our MVP. Greiss got off to a really rough start this season, but he turned it around and played like the Greiss we thought we were getting when we signed him.

That's the case against taking Wallstedt in the top 10. Good goalies are always available. 2Cs and 2Ds? Not so much. If you want to trade for one (a 2C/2D), it's likely going to cost you at least one significant asset. If you want to sign one as a free agent, you're likely going to have to significantly overpay.

Is that an airtight argument? Nah. But GMs agree with it.

I'll add that even if we're thinking about positions of need, with goalie being a big one for us, we're basically one good player away from being set at center and one good player away from being set on defense.

Just don't ask him about any historical figures...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

6 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

"Picking a goalie in the top 10 of the draft is the only way to win a cup"  Wayne Grezzzy Bowman

So glad we drafted Mike Vernon and Dominik Hasek.

[F.Michael 4,590]

Just now, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

So glad we drafted Mike Vernon and Dominik Hasek.

Osgood belongs in the HoF.

If you disagree you're not a real fan of the Detroit Red Wings.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

He very obviously differs from that take considering he could have had Knight or Askarov the last two seasons, both of whom were more highly anticipated prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa, and he chose neither. People think that because Yzerman drafted a goalie in the first round one time that he's going to be inclined to reach on a goalie with a top ten pick now? Doubtful.

A top ten pick has only been used on a goalie three times since 2000, and not at all in the last 16 years. In the last 16 years, 30+ GMs made 160 top ten selections and NONE of them took a goalie. And yet, elite goalies still exist. That should probably tell you something.

FWIW one of those three guys (DiPietro) was a bust, and two (Fleury and Price) are Hall of Famers. ALL of them were considered better prospects than Wallstedt or Cossa. There's absolutely NO reason to think either of the two goalies this year will be a Fleury or a Price. It's a wasted pick. GMs know this, that's why they don't do it anymore.

Not that it hurts your case, but Al Montoya was drafted 6th overall by the Rangers in 2004.

7 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Osgood belongs in the HoF.

If you disagree you're not a real fan of the Detroit Red Wings.

And his 2nd Cup was after returning as an UFA. So the Wings won their 4 Cups in the modern era with 2 goalies they traded for, 1 they drafted, and 1 they re-signed as a UFA.

[F.Michael 4,590]

16 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

And his 2nd Cup was after returning as an UFA. So the Wings won their 4 Cups in the modern era with 2 goalies they traded for, 1 they drafted, and 1 they re-signed as a UFA.

HEATHEN !!!

Edited June 15, 2021 by F.Michael

[kipwinger 8,519]

18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not that it hurts your case, but Al Montoya was drafted 6th overall by the Rangers in 2004.

And his 2nd Cup was after returning as an UFA. So the Wings won their 4 Cups in the modern era with 2 goalies they traded for, 1 they drafted, and 1 they re-signed as a UFA.

Oops, missed that one. Either way.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Osgood belongs in the HoF.

If you disagree you're not a real fan of the Detroit Red Wings.

If you have to debate it, the answer is always "no".

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

HEATHEN !!!

Classic "Body Snatchers". One of the few times I got to see

( . )  ( . )

as a kid. Good times.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Luke Hughes: apparently he's our guy. 

[marcaractac 3,962]

19 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Oops, missed that one. Either way.

In all fairness, Al Montoya not really doing much to argue in favor of drafting a goalie early haha

[F.Michael 4,590]

43 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Luke Hughes: apparently he's our guy. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Luke Hughes: apparently he's our guy. 

I'd be shocked if he made it to #6 - especially when the Devils are at #4.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Just now, F.Michael said:

I'd be shocked if he made it to #6 - especially when the Devils are at #4.

Yeah. As random as this draft is, I think Hughes is a consensus top 5 pick.

Hughes, Power, Beniers, Eklund, Edvinsson/Guenther. I could see Johnson as a wild card that f***s everything up. Yzerman's probably going to Sillinger or something. 

[Akakabuto 1,748]

3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'd be shocked if he made it to #6 - especially when the Devils are at #4.

Devils picks Brandt Clarke

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Devils picks Brandt Clarke

 

5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yeah. As random as this draft is, I think Hughes is a consensus top 5 pick.

Hughes, Power, Beniers, Eklund, Edvinsson/Guenther. I could see Johnson as a wild card that f***s everything up. Yzerman's probably going to Sillinger or something. 

How much would that suck being drafted, and playing on the same team with your older brother?

I mean - no roadtrip pu$$y - or binge drinking...Somehow mom will find out of your transgressions...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, F.Michael said:

 

How much would that suck being drafted, and playing on the same team with your older brother?

I mean - no roadtrip pu$$y - or binge drinking...Somehow mom will find out of your transgressions...

I doubt Jack "Show Me Your Tiddies" Hughes will have much leverage over Luke on these road trips. 

[kipwinger 8,519]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I doubt Jack "Show Me Your Tiddies" Hughes will have much leverage over Luke on these road trips. 

I was gonna say, pretty sure the Hughes brothers aren't shy.