2021 Draft

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I really hoping for Hughes (Edvinsson) at 6. Then if we can squeak out Cossa in the 22nd spot. For me, that would be a perfect draft. But I do trust Yzerman and his scouts, much more than Holland and his band of merry men. If he takes Wallside at 6, so be it. Most of us were aghast when he selected Seider. Let's just get this off season going. Let's Go Isles and lets get to the expansion draft!

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I really hoping for Hughes (Edvinsson) at 6. Then if we can squeak out Cossa in the 22nd spot. For me, that would be a perfect draft. But I do trust Yzerman and his scouts, much more than Holland and his band of merry men. If he takes Wallside at 6, so be it. Most of us were aghast when he selected Seider. Let's just get this off season going. Let's Go Isles and lets get to the expansion draft!

This years playoffs have made a pretty good case of taking a netminder in the 1st round (be it #6 or #22).

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:39 AM, Hookersarethefuture said:

34:15 some common sense in regards to ppl saying you never draft a goalie in the 1st round 

Brings up the same s*** i been saying you want to take a guy who ends up as a 2nd line player or a #1 starter ? Nice segment

You do understand that a F or D taken at 6 are more likely to pan out than a G at 6, right? Wahlstedt may turn into an elite goalie, but its less likely than getting a first line forward or top pair defenseman with that pick. Goalies are much harder to predict at that age, and are more likely to bust than a skater. That's just the way it is. You can criticize the logic all you want, but the facts back it up.

You seem to think that SY should gamble that pick with a boom or bust prospect. I disagree. I would rather he use it on a safer bet that's actually more likely to live up to a 6th overall draft pick. We cant afford to blow this pick.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

This years playoffs have made a pretty good case of taking a netminder in the 1st round (be it #6 or #22).

Not really. Let's look at the final 8 teams and the 2 goaltenders who got the most playing time for each team.

Montreal:

Carey Price, 1st round, 6th overall, by Montreal

Jake Allen, 2nd round, drafted by the Blues

Tampa Bay:

Andrei Vasilevsky, 1st rd, 19th, by Tampa Bay

Curtis McElhinney, 6th rd, by Calgary

NY Islanders:

Semyon Varlamov, 1st rd, 23rd, by Washington

Ilya Sorokin, 3rd round, by the Islanders

Vegas:

M-A Fleury, 1st overall, by Pittsburgh

Robin Lehner, 2nd rd, by Ottawa

Winnipeg:

Hellebuyck, 5th round, by Winnipeg

Brossoit, 6th round, by Calgary

Colorado:

Grubauer, 4th round, by Washington

Johansson, 3rd round, by Buffalo

Boston:

Rask, 1st round, 21st, by Toronto

Halak, 9th round, by Montreal

Carolina:

Nedelijokic, 2nd round, by Carolina

Reimer, 4th round, by Toronto

So out of these 8 starting goaltenders, 5 are 1st round picks. None of the backups are first rounders. Sounds like a pretty good argument for drafting a goalie in the 1st round, right? Not so fast. 

3 of the first rounders were drafted in the late first, after all of the better skaters were gone, by playoff teams, who could afford the gamble, not by rebuilding teams.

Only 2 first round picks were still playing for the team that drafted them (Price, Vasilevskiy). The other 3 (Varlamov, Rask, Fleury) were playing for a team that acquired them in some other way.

So basically,  Carey Price is the only goalie to make it to at least the 2nd round, who was a top 10 pick, and still playing for the team that drafted him. That's 1 out of 8.

Summary: you are more likely to be a playoff team with a goaltender YOU drafted outside the first round (or at least late first round) or acquired from another team.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 hours ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

So basically your a chicken s*** right? You do realize its not every year a goaltender is highly touted and picked in the first round anymore right? So when people are praising goaltenders these days as future #1 elite goalies you should pay attention listen/read what they say and stop over thinking s*** and being scared . Like i said teams dont draft goalies in the first round anymore so when they talk about one in a draft year then you shouldnt dismiss it cause “you dont draft a goalie in the first round “ 

Last i checked spencer knights debut has been phenomenal thus far so stop being scared And try being optimistic? Last i checked we have zero goalies , and please stop with the cossa at 22 stuff cause he’ll very likely be gone 

If we pass on the goalie and he becomes a bonafide #1 star goalie and our forwards on the 2nd line we f***ed up. Facts schmats 

Its a good thing he didnt listen to you and take the “safe” pick in 2019 and went off the board and got our future captain hey? Stop being a wuss

 

 

This has been an unusual past 18 months with the pandemic. I'd say this draft may see more subjective/personal hunch picks than ever before. For all we know Yzerman and the scouts might feel there's not 1 skater that really stands out between #5 thru #10 - maybe at #6 Wallstedt has the highest ceiling of that bunch (think Lundqvist) and everyone else might be seen as 2nd line forwards or 2nd pairing Dmen.

As usual I really don’t follow the prospects so I don’t have any strong opinion - however it would be nice to add a goalie who can be our legit starter for years to come.

Edited June 26, 2021 by F.Michael

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 hour ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

100% we’ll see alot of unexpected picks in this draft . I do think wallstedt has the highest upside in this draft but everyone’s afraid of the goalie and has a million excuses not to take one. I know we have f*** all in our pipeline (petruzzelli is walking) and for me its like perfect timing to finally land our elite #1 goalie which we’ve lacked since forever

If yzerman goes elsewhere i’ll be dissapointed but it is what it is and he’ll have to try and get a young goalie off a team elsewhere and hope he becomes a #1 cause we wont find anything in free agency to get excited about despite what people want to believe

Right now there seems to be a source of decent and reasonably priced netminders, but I'm not sure what it'll be in 4, or 5 years from now when we 'should' be a playoff team.

Like you said - if Wallstedt has a great upside - maybe a higher ceiling than what's left in the draft - then why not take him?

History of past drafts aside - sometimes you gotta take that chance.

Edited June 26, 2021 by F.Michael

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Multiple outlets saying that Yzerman may be targeting McTavish at #6. That is the problem with picking out of the top 2 or 3. So many good quality players, you just hope to choose the right one. Hughes, Edvinsson, Wallstedt, McTavish, Eklund...not including guys who may fall...it's gonna be crazy! Heck even Guenther may fall. It just seems so up in the air! Most folks see Power as the #1, but I would not be surprised if someone else went first. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

18 hours ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

So basically your a chicken s*** right? You do realize its not every year a goaltender is highly touted and picked in the first round anymore right? So when people are praising goaltenders these days as future #1 elite goalies you should pay attention listen/read what they say and stop over thinking s*** and being scared . Like i said teams dont draft goalies in the first round anymore so when they talk about one in a draft year then you shouldnt dismiss it cause “you dont draft a goalie in the first round “ 

Last i checked spencer knights debut has been phenomenal thus far so stop being scared And try being optimistic? Last i checked we have zero goalies , and please stop with the cossa at 22 stuff cause he’ll very likely be gone 

If we pass on the goalie and he becomes a bonafide #1 star goalie and our forwards on the 2nd line we f***ed up. Facts schmats 

Its a good thing he didnt listen to you and take the “safe” pick in 2019 and went off the board and got our future captain hey? Stop being a wuss

 

Yep. Taking a player that is more likely to bust is good asset management. Why aren't you an NHL GM?

https://sinbin.vegas/drafting-a-goalie-in-1st-round-rarely-wise/

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/nhl-draft/2021/6/21/22540923/nhl-draft-myth-busters-do-you-have-to-draft-goalies-in-the-first-round

After going through this exercise, I can come to a few conclusions about the best ways for a team to get a good and elite goalie:

1. You can draft them in the first round, but only outside of the top 10. Once other prospects that have more certainty of being stars are gone, then you can start thinking of swinging on a goalie.
2. You better be damn sure of the goalie you’re taking in the first round, especially if it’s in the top 15 or top 20. They better have otherworldly numbers in highly competitive leagues, and you better have good goalie scouts who know their stuff to identify a guy who is quick, mobile, reads play well, has good rebound control, and so on.
3. If you don’t see a goalie that you’re sure of in the first round, don’t worry. You can wait to take someone in any of the other rounds and still have decent potential for finding a success.
4. If you still strike out, don’t worry about it too much. Good and elite goalies are being shopped or let go by the teams that originally draft them all the time. Jonas Hiller, Craig Anderson, Mike Smith, Marc-Andre Fleury, Jaroslav Halak, Devan Dubnyk, Ben Bishop, Tuukka Rask, Cam Talbot, Sergei Bobrovski, Robin Lehner, Frederik Andersen, and Philipp Grubauer are all prime examples of that.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

18 hours ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Why the f*** you naming back up goalies  who didnt even get a start?

You can say 4 of the starting goalies in the final 4 we’re 1st round picks but that wouldnt fit your narrative. We get it you hate picking goalies in 1st round

1. I was pointing out that the first round picks in the playoffs were all starters, and how that might lead someone with a simple mind to conclude that 1st round goalies was the way to go. Sorry that you missed that.

2. Well then why would I bring up details that clearly debunks my narrative? Because it doesn't. If you bothered to read it, I clearly pointed out that both MAF and Varlamov, although being first round picks, were playing for teams that didn't even draft them. In other words, the Islanders and Knights got their playoff starting goaltenders without having to use a first round pick to get them. Comprende?

And between Vasilevskiy and Price, only Price was drafted in the top 10. Vasilevskiy was drafted 19th. Not too far away from the Wings 2nd pick.

Out of the entire NHL, only one team has found success in the playoffs with a top 10 goalie that they drafted. Montreal. That's it. If that gives you reason to think that drafting a goalie with the 6th pick is a no brainer, then I don't know what to tell you because you cleary can't handle anyone disagreeing with you, no matter how much evidence there is to support it.

 

 

[mackel 681]

12 hours ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

100% we’ll see alot of unexpected picks in this draft . I do think wallstedt has the highest upside in this draft but everyone’s afraid of the goalie and has a million excuses not to take one. I know we have f*** all in our pipeline (petruzzelli is walking) and for me its like perfect timing to finally land our elite #1 goalie which we’ve lacked since forever

If yzerman goes elsewhere i’ll be dissapointed but it is what it is and he’ll have to try and get a young goalie off a team elsewhere and hope he becomes a #1 cause we wont find anything in free agency to get excited about despite what people want to believe

Can anyone shed light on why Petruzzelli is walking?

Seems odd, since he's developing reasonably well and we have no other notable prospects at that position...  the player and team seem like a match made in hockey heaven.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

20 hours ago, F.Michael said:

 

This has been an unusual past 18 months with the pandemic. I'd say this draft may see more subjective/personal hunch picks than ever before. For all we know Yzerman and the scouts might feel there's not 1 skater that really stands out between #5 thru #10 - maybe at #6 Wallstedt has the highest ceiling of that bunch (think Lundqvist) and everyone else might be seen as 2nd line forwards or 2nd pairing Dmen.

As usual I really don’t follow the prospects so I don’t have any strong opinion - however it would be nice to add a goalie who can be our legit starter for years to come.

Who knows what Yzerman does. He has surprised me the last 2 drafts. I wouldn't be surprised to see him do it this draft too. Does he buck conventional wisdom and take a goalie at 6? Possibly. Would I agree with that pick based on historical data? Nope. But I will support his pick, just as I have the last two, and hope it all works out.

[Dabura 12,207]

20 hours ago, F.Michael said:

This has been an unusual past 18 months with the pandemic. I'd say this draft may see more subjective/personal hunch picks than ever before. For all we know Yzerman and the scouts might feel there's not 1 skater that really stands out between #5 thru #10 - maybe at #6 Wallstedt has the highest ceiling of that bunch (think Lundqvist) and everyone else might be seen as 2nd line forwards or 2nd pairing Dmen.

As usual I really don’t follow the prospects so I don’t have any strong opinion - however it would be nice to add a goalie who can be our legit starter for years to come.

If we do take a goalie with our first pick, it'll be for exactly the reasons you've listed.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

10 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Multiple outlets saying that Yzerman may be targeting McTavish at #6. That is the problem with picking out of the top 2 or 3. So many good quality players, you just hope to choose the right one. Hughes, Edvinsson, Wallstedt, McTavish, Eklund...not including guys who may fall...it's gonna be crazy! Heck even Guenther may fall. It just seems so up in the air! Most folks see Power as the #1, but I would not be surprised if someone else went first. 

I would prefer one of the Swedes personally, but who knows what Yzerman does.

[Dabura 12,207]

10 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Multiple outlets saying that Yzerman may be targeting McTavish at #6. That is the problem with picking out of the top 2 or 3. So many good quality players, you just hope to choose the right one. Hughes, Edvinsson, Wallstedt, McTavish, Eklund...not including guys who may fall...it's gonna be crazy! Heck even Guenther may fall. It just seems so up in the air! Most folks see Power as the #1, but I would not be surprised if someone else went first. 

I'm on record saying we take McTavish or Lucius. But, yeah, we might as well be picking names out of a hat. Wiiiiiiiiide open.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I fine with whichever skater he takes... I just looked at TSN and Button has him drafting Wallstedt. I guess we'd have to live with it, but of all the names bouncing around, the G has to be the biggest risk I think. This guy better be Hasek 2.0 IMO to risk that #6. There is an outside chance we aren't even a lottery team next season depending on what Yzerman does with UFA's and or trades. I'd hate to miss out on a great LHD or a C that drops to us for a huge gamble in net. I know, I know, Jesper is supposed to be all world, maybe better than Askarov, but still, the G position has to be the biggest risk of being a bust. I would just rather go safe with Hughes (et.al) and get a G later in the draft. But, really, they are very high on Bednar, maybe that pick works out? I think I will be most disappointed if he drafts Wallstedt...but I still have to trust the process!

(BTW, am I the only who would prefer giving Mrazek and contract instead of Bernier?  *Different thread)

Edited June 27, 2021 by LeftWinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

(BTW, am I the only who would prefer giving Mrazek and contract instead of Bernier?  *Different thread)

Yes.

[Dabura 12,207]

5 hours ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Yup i got a really bad feeling about mctavish going at 6 . Hoping cbj take him at 5 since they need a C now with dubois gone but unfortunately its happening at the same time seth jones is leaving and werenski likely gone in 2 years 

Cbj is the wildcard 

In my shoot-from-the-hip mock draft of the top 8 that I did right after the lotto draw results, I had CBJ taking McTavish. I do suspect they'd like to get a centerman, and I think McTavish's rugged game fits their brand.

I'd be fine with us getting McTavish. I know some people are concerned that he's "a rich man's Abdelkader." And I respect that. But I'd say there's roughly the same level of risk with all the candidates. There's definitely an argument to be made that we should be taking a really high-skill puck wizard type (indeed, that's why I like Lucius), but I can very easily imagine those guys becoming Athanasiou types, i.e. highly skilled but not particularly great players.

McTavish reminds me of Brayden Point in some ways. Plays a smart, straightforward, responsible, highly-competitive "I'm going to beat you because I just am" type of game. Seems to thrive in big-stage settings.

[Dabura 12,207]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I fine with whichever skater he takes... I just looked at TSN and Button has him drafting Wallstedt. I guess we'd have to live with it, but of all the names bouncing around, the G has to be the biggest risk I think. This guy better be Hasek 2.0 IMO to risk that #6. There is an outside chance we aren't even a lottery team next season depending on what Yzerman does with UFA's and or trades.

The possibility that we don't finish in prime lotto territory next season is something I've been considering. We're no longer running down the clock on a glut of albatross contracts. Yzerman wants the team to start getting younger and more competitive. Seider could be an immediate difference-maker. Injuries shouldn't be as big a problem as they were this season. All of which is to say: Maybe this team's upswining is already underway.

I dunno that that should impact our drafting strategy in the here and now. But it's something to think about.

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

I'd be happy with either Mason McTavish or William Eklund. Just don't want Jesper Wallstadt at #6 would love to use the Caps #22 pick along with one of our Mid 2nds and take Sebastian Cossa though.

Edited June 28, 2021 by diehardredwingsfan58

[mackel 681]

8 hours ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Yup i got a really bad feeling about mctavish going at 6 . Hoping cbj take him at 5 since they need a C now with dubois gone but unfortunately its happening at the same time seth jones is leaving and werenski likely gone in 2 years 

Cbj is the wildcard 

^^This is how I felt in 2018...  McTavish seems like a Rasmussen type pick... high floor low ceiling. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

This draft seems to be wide open after the first couple picks. The only two players that definitely won't be around at 6, are Power and Beniers. Everyone else, maybe. It's the first year I don't really have one or two guys that I'm gung ho over. There are a lot of guys I like in the 6 range though...

McTavish may be my favorite as of now, but that seems to change daily. Johnson seems like a real boom or bust pick, but I'd be more than willing to bet on the skill there. I like Guenther, but I'm not sure about taking another pure winger with our first pick, unless Yzerman believes he's that much better than the rest. Same applies to Eklund, but I believe he could be the most skilled player in the draft, and I also think he has the tools and ability to play center at the NHL level.

Edvinsson seems like he could be one of the more polarizing picks in the top 10, but I really like what I've seen from him. Could be a great guy to pair with Seider. I'm not as high on Hughes as most. But then again, I wasn't as high on older brother Quinn either, and we all see the impact he's making in Vancouver. Our top 4 on the right side is pretty set with Seider and Hronek, but I'd consider adding Clarke and moving Hronek down or trading him for help elsewhere.

I've always been completely against taking a goaltender in the top 10, or even in the first round (or two) for that matter. However, for the first time ever, I wouldn't be that against a goaltender (Wallstedt) at 6th overall. Wouldn't be my first choice, but wouldn't hate it either.

Depending on who we take with our 6th pick, and obviously how the 1st round plays out, there are a ton of players I'd like to see fall to 23 (or 38, 48, 52), or potentially trade up... Lucius, Sillinger, Pinelli, Bolduc, Raty, Lysell, Lambos, Ceulemans, Cossa...

Best case scenario for me would be Edvinsson and Lucius or Raty OR McTavish or Eklund and Lambos, and one of the others dropping to the 2nd round... Probably pretty unlikely though...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

This team will finish low enough to get another top 10 pick next year.

At number 22, I think there's a good chance someone speculated to go top 10 is still there. This is the type of draft where I think teams will take risks and reach on some picks. If there is a falling prospect there I take him. 

I am not big on goalies in the 1st round, but if Cossa is there, I wouldnt hate that pick. I think a skater picked at 6 and a goalie at 22 has a better chance of working out than the other way around.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Trust him no matter what, but I'd still prefer Cossa at 22. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think it's more so a matter of building philosophy rather than drafting philosophy for me. I will always prefer to build a team from the forwards in, rather than the net out. No doubt you need balance, but teams continue to prove that you can win with elite players and adequate goaltending. This is the first time I can remember the two best goalies in the game making it to the Stanley Cup Finals. There's usually at least one (sometimes both) mediocre goaltender(s) carried by an elite team of skaters.

I've always been 100% against taking a goaltender high in the draft for the reason above. This is the first year I wouldn't hate it. Partly because I don't have a skater in mind that I really want, partly because of all of the uncertainty in this year's draft, and partly because we have another 1st round pick and three 2nd round picks.

I don't think a single person is questioning whether or not Wallstedt can be a legit number one, potentially elite goaltender. I think what people are questioning, is how much of an impact do goaltenders really have on the game, and if it outweighs the impact of skaters. I personally don't think it does.

So Wallstedt becomes an elite goalie. You then have to pay him $9M+ to play at most 75% (likely lower) of your games every season. I just think you can get a goaltender via trade or free agency any season, for significantly cheaper, without much of a drop off.

[Scott R Lucidi 452]

Hasek went pick 199, round 10.