• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

LeftWinger

2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Saw this and interesting to see the makeover done by Mr Yzerman over the last couple of off seasons....

 

 

I'm really excited to see what this team does this season. Good or bad it is going to be nice to see what kind of progress we are making.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Saw this and interesting to see the makeover done by Mr Yzerman over the last couple of off seasons....

 

 

I saw this one too. Only like 3 players left from Holland's last team. This really is Yzermans team now.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2021 at 6:04 PM, BarkBurgerman said:

Just wanna say... this is how Yzerman started Tampa. Not so much in literal piece building... cause Tampa had a very different roster make up then us. But style wise. Remember that game where Pronger just stood in his own with the puck and mocked the trap? That was an Yzerman team. They buttoned down the hatches and stifled other teams until the pieces came. Yzerguy is doing the same again. Building from the net out. For all we know cross hanas is another Brayden point. 

Yeah.

I mean, I dunno that I wanna say that's the "right" way to do it, cuz that reads like cope. But I do feel there's something to be said for cutting your teeth – as individual players and as a team – with no training wheels, no cheats, no magical silver bullet in the chamber. Having to play better hockey than the other team every night. Having to execute better than the other team every night. Having to battle your ass off every night. In theory, that crucible gives you a great foundation for near-future Cup contention. The idea being: Your glass is half full. And if Steve Yzerman is your GM, it's probably only a matter of time before you find That Player who's gonna fill your glass to the top.

This is why I'm ok with Blashill sticking around. None of us want to hear about "process," but it's a real thing and I think he's done a decent job on that front.

It's also why I think Seider and Raymond and Edvinsson make a lot of sense for us. Seider is a two-way possession monster who always makes the right play. Raymond is a two-way possession monster who always makes the right play. Edvinsson is a two-way possession monster who...doesn't always make the right play – but that doesn't even matter, cuz Seider and Cossa and lethal power play.

Is Rasmussen gonna be a bona fide 1C? Probably not. But I can pretty easily picture a unit of Vrana-Rasmussen-Raymond + [2 of Seider, Hronek, Edvinsson] being one of the better five-man units in the league.

Edited by Dabura

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2021 at 11:39 PM, Dabura said:

Yeah.

I mean, I dunno that I wanna say that's the "right" way to do it, cuz that reads like cope. But I do feel there's something to be said for cutting your teeth – as individual players and as a team – with no training wheels, no cheats, no magical silver bullet in the chamber. Having to play better hockey than the other team every night. Having to execute better than the other team every night. Having to battle your ass off every night. In theory, that crucible gives you a great foundation for near-future Cup contention. The idea being: Your glass is half full. And if Steve Yzerman is your GM, it's probably only a matter of time before you find That Player who's gonna fill your glass to the top.

This is why I'm ok with Blashill sticking around. None of us want to hear about "process," but it's a real thing and I think he's done a decent job on that front.

It's also why I think Seider and Raymond and Edvinsson make a lot of sense for us. Seider is a two-way possession monster who always makes the right play. Raymond is a two-way possession monster who always makes the right play. Edvinsson is a two-way possession monster who...doesn't always make the right play – but that doesn't even matter, cuz Seider and Cossa and lethal power play.

Is Rasmussen gonna be a bona fide 1C? Probably not. But I can pretty easily picture a unit of Vrana-Rasmussen-Raymond + [2 of Seider, Hronek, Edvinsson] being one of the better five-man units in the league.

I just realized that the moment I mentioned with Pronger was against the Guy Boucher/Yzerman Bolts. Maybe that's a reason Stevie switched to Coop. IDK. 

Regardless I think Yzerman is really focused on his backbone pieces. Big Dmen and such. I'm sure part of the allure to Detroit for him - beyond the obvious - was the ability to start from scratch and build a pure Yzerman team through the draft. In Tampa he had to build around Stamkos and Hedman. He really has the ability to make Detroit whatever he wants. He's putting in place big mobile dmen and addressing the net aggressively. I figure he thinks the forwards will fall somewhat in to place based on his experience in Tampa. Kucherov, Palat, Point, and many others all coming from later rounds. 

I also really think Raymond is an NHL center. And I wanna drive that home now so I can whip out the told ya sos later. He's grown on me quite a bit unlike guys like Veleno and Zadina. I think he'll be the Feds that pushes Larkin to 2C. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I also really think Raymond is an NHL center. And I wanna drive that home now so I can whip out the told ya sos later. He's grown on me quite a bit unlike guys like Veleno and Zadina. I think he'll be the Feds that pushes Larkin to 2C. 

Where are you getting this? Everyplace I look calls him a winger.

Pure speculation, but if SY already sees Raymond as W, could that be why he chose Edvinnson over Eklund? No need for another winger?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Where are you getting this? Everyplace I look calls him a winger.

Pure speculation, but if SY already sees Raymond as W, could that be why he chose Edvinnson over Eklund? No need for another winger?

Oh it's pure speculation. But I'm willing to bet I'm right. Raymond has already played center much of his career. But he was moved to wing when he advanced into higher leagues as a young man and when we drafted him. Coaches gave more responsibility to vets essentially. But now he's becoming a very skilled 2 way forward. It's only a matter of time IMO b4 he returns to center duties. Just remember I told u so...

With Edvinsson it's pretty clear what's going on. Yzerman has prioritized Dmen. 1. Dmen with mobility. 2. Dmen with size.

Seider has been the pinnacle of that, but Edvinsson is perhaps now even more so that mold. He's bigger and faster than seider (but maybe not as smart). I think there was no way that Yzerman could pass on a kid that fit his mold that well. 

Quality forwards are much easier to find than quality Dmen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2021 at 8:46 AM, LeftWinger said:

Unless there's something going on in his private life, I am surprised that Ryan Donato isn't signed anywhere. He wasn't given a QO from San Jose and is currently a UFA. He is 25, C/LW and had 20 points in 50 games last season. He has 77 points in 180 games for his career, 35 of which are goals. These stats seem good enough to get him a contract somewhere. I honestly wouldn't mind giving him a deal around $1M to compete for a spot. Worst case scenario, he gets snagged off waivers if he doesn't make the team. If he cleared, he'd be nice depth in GR.

Donato has signed with Seattle for $750K.  I think I would've liked to get him in this organization for that measly amount.

Edited by LeftWinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2021 at 6:39 PM, BarkBurgerman said:

I also really think Raymond is an NHL center. And I wanna drive that home now so I can whip out the told ya sos later. He's grown on me quite a bit unlike guys like Veleno and Zadina. I think he'll be the Feds that pushes Larkin to 2C. 

I've always loved Raymond. (HAHA I SAID THE THING.)

It's been sort of surreal to see the blogger-journo-nerd intelligentsia set (BJNIS) give a blank check of unconditional support to a Red Wings prospect like they have with Raymond. Like, I'll see some Wings fans be like "I dunno, man, he hasn't exactly torn the SHL apart" and the BJNIS is like "Don't worry. Dude is legit. Trust me. Y'all got this, fam." Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit. But only a bit. You know a kid is special when the usually-conservative summary blurbs are throwing around words like "extremely," "massive," "incredible," and "nightmare."

https://dobberprospects.com/player/lucas-raymond/

Quote

An extremely dynamic offensive winger with massive potential. Slightly undersized but competes very hard and owns incredible skating ability. An excellent playmaker with high-end vision and creativity but also has a deadly wrist shot. Very dangerous on the power play but can also be used on the penalty kill. Capable of playing both wings.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/350702/lucas-raymond

Quote

A very well-rounded and highly skilled winger. Raymond is blessed with exceptional hockey sense. Furthermore, he has terrific hands, great speed and fine work ethic. Plays with plenty of intensity and battles hard for the puck. A nightmare to play against with his forechecking and puck-stealing ability. He also plays a strong two-way game and is a capable penalty killer. Offensively, he has a strong wrist shot and excellent vision. Few weaknesses overall and is a player that doesn't wait for the play to happen, but the one that generates the play and make things happen.

Mind you, my Raymond love isn't based on BJNIS HYPE! I've watched him play. I've dug into his stats. He's probably the only Wings prospect I'll ever describe as having "very real Zetterberg 2.0 potential."

Can he be an NHL 1C? Yes.

*Will* he be an NHL 1C? Don't count on it. But, hey, you never know. Raymond becoming that monster 1C we desperately need would be so f***ing perfect that I almost have to believe it's meant to be. But even if he's not an NHL centerman (and we should assume he's not), he's the rare kind of player who can control the full 200 feet of ice from the wing.

Worth noting: His body is still very "has lifted weights a couple times."

https://twitter.com/IcehockeyG/status/1434616141431902218/photo/1

That's how we know he won't be seeing much/any NHL action this coming season. But, more to the point, it's how we know post-draft Raymond isn't even close to his final form. When he bulks up and gets bigger, stronger, faster...look out.

Edited by Dabura

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking over some old drafts, and in 2002 The Wings drafted a Johan Berggren. I searched and searched, but couldn't find any relation to Jonatan Berggren. Not that it matters, but it would've been pretty cool to have these two related in some way and both be drafted by Detroit. Anyhow, carry on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would anybody be opposed to working out a trade with Holland for Kailer Yamamoto? I'd say offer sheet him, but I think Yzerman would rather not cut friendly ties with Kenny. 

...also, what's the holdup on signing some of these RFA's? Dahlin, Tkachuk? These teams have plenty of cap space. There's a few players I'd love to see on Detroit. What do you guys think about Patrick?

Screenshot_20210914-142634_Chrome.thumb.jpg.102b4879e53d6f740e0adcce425bad8b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Would anybody be opposed to working out a trade with Holland for Kailer Yamamoto? I'd say offer sheet him, but I think Yzerman would rather not cut friendly ties with Kenny. 

...also, what's the holdup on signing some of these RFA's? Dahlin, Tkachuk? These teams have plenty of cap space. There's a few players I'd love to see on Detroit. What do you guys think about Patrick?

Screenshot_20210914-142634_Chrome.thumb.jpg.102b4879e53d6f740e0adcce425bad8b.jpg

Yamamoto isnt enough of a game changer to warrant the sourness that would come from doing that. Pass.

The only 2 on that list I would consider are Pettersson and Tkachuk, but this team still needs a couple more high end picks to solidify the roster. I wouldn't want to pay the compensation at this point in the rebuild. Two years from now? Maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nolan Patrick is starting to feel a lot like Riley Sheahan 2.0.... he's still young though, and has some time to develop into more. but he has not looked as promising as you'd hope from a former #2 overall pick.

Brady Tkachuk is rumored to be looking at an 8 year, 64 mill contract offer from the Sens right now. Don't see why he wouldn't just take that. 

I'd be VERY interested in any of Pettersson, Dahlin, or Hughes. But only in a trade and I don't see that happening. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2021 at 2:29 PM, Dabura said:

I've always loved Raymond. (HAHA I SAID THE THING.)

It's been sort of surreal to see the blogger-journo-nerd intelligentsia set (BJNIS) give a blank check of unconditional support to a Red Wings prospect like they have with Raymond. Like, I'll see some Wings fans be like "I dunno, man, he hasn't exactly torn the SHL apart" and the BJNIS is like "Don't worry. Dude is legit. Trust me. Y'all got this, fam." Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit. But only a bit. You know a kid is special when the usually-conservative summary blurbs are throwing around words like "extremely," "massive," "incredible," and "nightmare."

https://dobberprospects.com/player/lucas-raymond/

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/350702/lucas-raymond

Mind you, my Raymond love isn't based on BJNIS HYPE! I've watched him play. I've dug into his stats. He's probably the only Wings prospect I'll ever describe as having "very real Zetterberg 2.0 potential."

Can he be an NHL 1C? Yes.

*Will* he be an NHL 1C? Don't count on it. But, hey, you never know. Raymond becoming that monster 1C we desperately need would be so f***ing perfect that I almost have to believe it's meant to be. But even if he's not an NHL centerman (and we should assume he's not), he's the rare kind of player who can control the full 200 feet of ice from the wing.

Worth noting: His body is still very "has lifted weights a couple times."

https://twitter.com/IcehockeyG/status/1434616141431902218/photo/1

That's how we know he won't be seeing much/any NHL action this coming season. But, more to the point, it's how we know post-draft Raymond isn't even close to his final form. When he bulks up and gets bigger, stronger, faster...look out.

I honestly knew very little about Raymond in that draft other than he was a good Swedish winger. Pretty much exactly what I knew about Zadina in his draft. The difference being that Raymond has grown on me massively post draft, whereas Zadina did not at all.

Raymond's deployment in the SHL I think explains it all. His coaches almost held him back and forced him to play harder minutes. Am I wrong in saying that? That's what I've gathered. Seems like he's expected to beast mode as soon as he's deployed on a top line and top PP. And I think he has that real ability at this point.

Dark Zberg 2.0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I honestly knew very little about Raymond in that draft other than he was a good Swedish winger. Pretty much exactly what I knew about Zadina in his draft. The difference being that Raymond has grown on me massively post draft, whereas Zadina did not at all.

Raymond's deployment in the SHL I think explains it all. His coaches almost held him back and forced him to play harder minutes. Am I wrong in saying that? That's what I've gathered. Seems like he's expected to beast mode as soon as he's deployed on a top line and top PP. And I think he has that real ability at this point.

Dark Zberg 2.0

why dont you like Z?  hes playing his ass off.  200 ft game and all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2021 at 12:31 AM, Jonas Mahonas said:

why dont you like Z?  hes playing his ass off.  200 ft game and all.

Always my favorite excuse for a player. Scorer can't score because he's too busy 200fting! If Zadinas mind is on defense in the Ozone cycle we have a much bigger problem than him not scoring...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/15/2021 at 2:55 PM, BarkBurgerman said:

I honestly knew very little about Raymond in that draft other than he was a good Swedish winger. Pretty much exactly what I knew about Zadina in his draft. The difference being that Raymond has grown on me massively post draft, whereas Zadina did not at all.

Raymond's deployment in the SHL I think explains it all. His coaches almost held him back and forced him to play harder minutes. Am I wrong in saying that? That's what I've gathered. Seems like he's expected to beast mode as soon as he's deployed on a top line and top PP. And I think he has that real ability at this point.

Dark Zberg 2.0

Going into his draft season, the universal expectation was that Raymond would have himself a great SHL campaign and get picked in the top 3, possibly even 1st overall; he had an impressive body of work and he was coming off a spectacular WJC performance.

Sweden's Lucas Raymond records incredible hat trick, including OT winner, to win gold at U18 Worlds [BarDown]

Kid was self-evidently special.

Raymond's SHL coach Roger Ronnberg may or may not have agreed with that "self-evidently special" part. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, I genuinely don't know. At the very least, Ronnberg did seem to hold the "kid" part against Raymond in a pretty big way. We're talking fourth-line minutes. We're talking no power play time.

The Curious Case of Lucas Raymond [DobberProspects]

Quote

Ten minutes and fifteen seconds. That’s the average amount of ice time that Lucas Raymond is playing when in the lineup with Frölunda. In that time, Raymond has just one goal and two assists through 14 games with his primary team in the SHL. For a prospect in his NHL Draft year and hoping to cement himself as a sure-fire top-three pick and a possible challenger as the number one, this season hasn’t gone as planned for the silky smooth forward. He’s been sent back to the SuperElit once already and will likely see more time in the Swedish junior league this season.

Quote

The biggest issue with Lucas Raymond’s year is the simple fact that he hasn’t been given a legitimate opportunity to produce. Of players that have played at least 10 games, Raymond ranks 18th out of 21 players on Frölunda. Among forwards, he ranks 13th among 15 players. Raymond is almost assuredly good enough to play in the top-nine on Frölunda, but the fact of the matter is that Frölunda’s coach, Roger Rönnberg, doesn’t seem to think that Raymond is a fit with this team at the moment.

Quote

Possibly the strangest thing about his situation with Frölunda and Roger Rönnberg is the fact they haven’t really given Raymond any powerplay time. The powerplay is the spot you put a player like Raymond, who you may not feel is ready to contribute in a major way at five-on-five so that he can take advatage of the extra time and space to make a difference on the scoreboard. His slick puck skills and smooth skating are tools that he can use to exploit defenses with the man advantage and coach Rönnberg hasn’t found a way to take advantage of a top-5 dynamic powerplay skillset on this team.

If I had to guess, what it came down to was "We're Frolunda, a well-oiled winning team in one of the world's very best pro leagues. You're a smallish, scrawny 17-year-old. Unless you're blowing us away, we're not switching things up for you. At least, not this season."

So Raymond played a limited role with Frolunda in his draft season. Unsurprisingly, the points didn't come. (4 goals and 10 points thru 33 games.) However, the underlying stats and the eye test both said Raymond was playing like a top-3 pick, production issues aside.

The Curious Case of Lucas Raymond [DobberProspects]

Quote

To put it simply, he’s been good. Despite his minuscule ice-time, Raymond is driving results during that time. Virtually everything that he can control, he’s controlled well and driven play while on the ice. He has dominated possession with a 58.25 CF% (Corsi For Percentage) and his individual shot metrics are positive as well. By all metrics, Raymond is playing a positive role on the ice when given the opportunity. He’s was sent down to the SuperElit, Swedish junior league, for a stint this year and produced at over a point-per-game rate, proving that he has advanced beyond the league after putting up 48 points in 37 games last season.

Quote

If you’re the type of person who doesn’t like the fancy stats and analytics, the eye test has been positive for Raymond as well. He has shown off his high-end skill and speed in transition and in the offensive zone. Raymond is a dynamic player who is among the best skaters in this draft and pairs the elite skating with a high-end skill set. He is billed as a playmaker but has a sneaky wrist shot that plays up because of how quick his release is. His offensive IQ is elite in an elite draft class. Plays like the one above are able to showcase just how good he can be when given the opportunity. It is evident that Raymond has a high-end skill set based on the eye test and the analytics back that up.

 
 
This past season, Raymond enjoyed an expanded role with Frolunda, putting up 6 goals and 18 points thru 34 games. Not the production I'd ideally like to see, but I'm not concerned; his play made it clear that the skill and smarts and potential are all still there and that the only thing standing between him and NHL stardom is time (knock on wood). He could've dismantled a Canadian major junior league in his draft season. But that wasn't his path. His path was playing in a notoriously low-scoring, all-defense pro league.

tl;dr We got a really good player at 4OA.

Edited by Dabura

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/17/2021 at 5:38 AM, BarkBurgerman said:

Always my favorite excuse for a player. Scorer can't score because he's too busy 200fting! If Zadinas mind is on defense in the Ozone cycle we have a much bigger problem than him not scoring...

hes averaged a point every 2 games from the 3rd line gettong 13 mins a night.  His offense hasnt been anywhere near "cant score".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Through 3 games, Edvinsson has been solid for Frolunda (SHL) in a top-pairing role. He looks more 1) comfortable than I'd expected and 2) Seider-like than I'd expected. That pleases me.

Ken Kal said during the first prospects tourney game that Edvinsson was #1 on Dallas's 2021 draft board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now