Red Wings Brass Believes This Will Be An Extended Rebuild

[mackel 681]

5 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Anyone who has actually watched Zadina play this season knows his spot on the team is about as safe as it gets. He's been extremely impressive despite not yet breaking out offensively. AA would likely still be in Detroit had he had the same work ethic and attention to detail on both ends of the ice. 

He's a 2nd/3rd liner tweener on a decent team.  He's not a star and won't be.

[kliq 3,755]

6 hours ago, mackel said:

He's a 2nd/3rd liner tweener on a decent team.  He's not a star and won't be.

The kid is 21....even if you assessment is correct today, the idea that he can’t become a star is ridicules. Give him a couple years, kids looked good this year.

[Katiecauts 0]

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[AtlantaHotWings 987]

7 hours ago, Katiecauts said:

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[Akakabuto 1,750]

8 hours ago, Katiecauts said:

Looking for ideas! I am thinking of buying Sexy Costumes from Peaches and Screams Shop. Which hot nightwear pieces would you recommend? xx

I would recommend the black g-string. It has a penis sleeve!

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[marcaractac 3,963]

17 hours ago, mackel said:

He's a 2nd/3rd liner tweener on a decent team.  He's not a star and won't be.

We get it. If a kid isn't an impact player right out of the draft, they will always suck.

[mackel 681]

6 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

We get it. If a kid isn't an impact player right out of the draft, they will always suck.

No you don't get it... a kid that cheated to get offense, which was his calling card... is drafted mid-free fall by a hapless scouting staff.  This one-dimensional player is then asked to invent a defensive game... he tries, gets marginally better defensively and the offense dries up.  Zadina is being exposed for what he is a complementary winger with a good shot, who needs his teammates to do all of the heavy lifting if he's going to be an offensive threat.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

43 minutes ago, mackel said:

No you don't get it... a kid that cheated to get offense, which was his calling card... is drafted mid-free fall by a hapless scouting staff.  This one-dimensional player is then asked to invent a defensive game... he tries, gets marginally better defensively and the offense dries up.  Zadina is being exposed for what he is a complementary winger with a good shot, who needs his teammates to do all of the heavy lifting if he's going to be an offensive threat.

This is almost the worst analysis of a player I have ever read. 

[mackel 681]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

This is almost the worst analysis of a player I have ever read. 

Meh the truth hurts.  Hopefully we get some actual elite at forward with Raymond and in the next few drafts that Zadina can piggyback off of...

Or preferrably we can trade him for picks to a team that,  like some wings fans,  are still blinded by the hype. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

22 minutes ago, mackel said:

Meh the truth hurts.  Hopefully we get some actual elite at forward with Raymond and in the next few drafts that Zadina can piggyback off of...

Or preferrably we can trade him for picks to a team that,  like some wings fans,  are still blinded by the hype. 

He's obviously putting the work in and the skill is obviously there. And he's playing top line minutes against other teams best players and isn't even remotely close to getting caved in. As basically rookie. It's lazy of you to just look at his offensive production and say "muh player is teh bust" . I have no horse in this race and I called his play s*** when it was s***. But I call it like I see it. The kid is playing well. 

[LeftWinger 4,959]

I hope Zadina turns out, but I still think we should've gone D no matter what. Whether it was Hughes or Bouchard. #ThanksHolland

I mean, FWIW, he is 6th in scoring on this team, only 6 points behind Larkin and Hronek. If Raymond and Vrana are going to be our snipers, then I really don't mind Zadina become better defensively and a setup man. Whatever he has to do to make his pick at 6th worth it. Maybe he gets dealt too? Yzerman has pretty much said, in not so many words, if you were here before me, then you could be gone if you don't earn and keep your roster spot.

Edited April 17, 2021 by LeftWinger

[kliq 3,755]

8 hours ago, mackel said:

No you don't get it... a kid that cheated to get offense, which was his calling card... is drafted mid-free fall by a hapless scouting staff.  This one-dimensional player is then asked to invent a defensive game... he tries, gets marginally better defensively and the offense dries up.  Zadina is being exposed for what he is a complementary winger with a good shot, who needs his teammates to do all of the heavy lifting if he's going to be an offensive threat.

I'm sorry, but this is laughable and such hyperbole. Every team in the NHL had Zadina anywhere between their #2 -#7 on their draft boards. I'm just so sick of this tired false narrative that everything Holland did was awful, the way people spin things to force this BS is exhausting. Two damn teams passing on him is not "free falling".

Hockey Writers had him going #2: https://thehockeywriters.com/2018-nhl-mock-draft-round-1/

Sporting News had him going #3: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-mock-draft-2018-picks-order-projections-rasmus-dahlin-sabres-canadiens-blackhawks-rangers/1wwd425dls1km1pjod5zbjj4sc

Sportsnet had him going #5: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2018-nhl-mock-draft-fascinating-highly-skilled-first-round/

Pronman had him ranked #3: https://theathletic.com/342438/2018/05/21/pronmans-2018-nhl-draft-board/

 

 

5 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

He's obviously putting the work in and the skill is obviously there. And he's playing top line minutes against other teams best players and isn't even remotely close to getting caved in. As basically rookie. It's lazy of you to just look at his offensive production and say "muh player is teh bust" . I have no horse in this race and I called his play s*** when it was s***. But I call it like I see it. The kid is playing well. 

There is no point, some people just wear blinders when it comes to anything Holland is responsible for. He could have drafted McDavid and they would be saying there is something wrong with him.

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I hope Zadina turns out, but I still think we should've gone D no matter what. Whether it was Hughes or Bouchard. #ThanksHolland

I mean, FWIW, he is 6th in scoring on this team, only 6 points behind Larkin and Hronek. If Raymond and Vrana are going to be our snipers, then I really don't mind Zadina become better defensively and a setup man. Whatever he has to do to make his pick at 6th worth it. Maybe he gets dealt too? Yzerman has pretty much said, in not so many words, if you were here before me, then you could be gone if you don't earn and keep your roster spot.

See this is fair, I totally get the mindset that we should have gone D. With that said, and I'm not talking about you, just because we possibly should have gone D, does NOT mean that Zadina is a bust like some try to push.

[mackel 681]

17 hours ago, kliq said:

I'm sorry, but this is laughable and such hyperbole. Every team in the NHL had Zadina anywhere between their #2 -#7 on their draft boards. I'm just so sick of this tired false narrative that everything Holland did was awful, the way people spin things to force this BS is exhausting. Two damn teams passing on him is not "free falling".

 Hockey Writers had him going #2: https://thehockeywriters.com/2018-nhl-mock-draft-round-1/

 Sporting News had him going #3: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-mock-draft-2018-picks-order-projections-rasmus-dahlin-sabres-canadiens-blackhawks-rangers/1wwd425dls1km1pjod5zbjj4sc

Sportsnet had him going #5: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2018-nhl-mock-draft-fascinating-highly-skilled-first-round/

 Pronman had him ranked #3: https://theathletic.com/342438/2018/05/21/pronmans-2018-nhl-draft-board/

 

 

There is no point, some people just wear blinders when it comes to anything Holland is responsible for. He could have drafted McDavid and they would be saying there is something wrong with him.

See this is fair, I totally get the mindset that we should have gone D. With that said, and I'm not talking about you, just because we possibly should have gone D, does NOT mean that Zadina is a bust like some try to push.

He didn't draft McDavid, he drafted a one-dimensional winger... I really wanted Hughes or Dobson, either of which would have been a better fit than a non scoring goal scorer.

But I do look forward to three years from now when Zadina is still what he is homer fans saying, but he's only 24... sheesh

[kliq 3,755]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:03 PM, mackel said:

He didn't draft McDavid, he drafted a one-dimensional winger... I really wanted Hughes or Dobson, either of which would have been a better fit than a non scoring goal scorer.

But I do look forward to three years from now when Zadina is still what he is homer fans saying, but he's only 24... sheesh

First off, I never said or insinuated that Zadina was even in the same stratosphere as McDavid. So lets just move on from that.

As far as you wanting Hughes or Dobson, I get that, I find nothing wrong with that statement. We had a glaring need on D, and instead we took BPA. My issue with your statement was this:

Quote

a kid that cheated to get offense, which was his calling card... is drafted mid-free fall by a hapless scouting staff.

This statement is pure hyperbole, plain and simple. Zadina was the BPA based on almost all draft rankings which I proved above.

As far as you looking forward to Zadina not improving 3 years from now, I find that sad. You would rather our #3 prospect turn out to be a bust so you can use that to mock strangers on a message board, rather than hope he proves you wrong and becomes a star winger. To each their own man, but are you even a Wings fan?

Edited April 19, 2021 by kliq

[Akakabuto 1,750]

3 hours ago, kliq said:

As far as you wanting Hughes or Dobson, I get that, I find nothing wrong with that statement. We had a glaring need on D, and instead we took BPA. My issue with your statement was this:

I would just like to point out that the Wings had glaring needs at every position on the roster. Not a fan of the Holland/Wright drafts but taking what they thought was BPA was the right decision. 

[Gniwder 168]

Zadina was certainly BPA at the time we were picking. I never even watched or read much about him going into the draft because I assumed we wouldn't have a chance at selecting him. But then we did and I was thrilled at our luck.

Few months later I got to finally watch him play. Awful. Not deserving of a top 10 pick. Now I know why the other GMs passed on the supposed #2/#3 player. Holland clearly didn't do his homework and should have also passed on him as well like the 5 GMs before him. 1 dimensional winger with pumped up numbers.

Boqvist, Hughes, Kravtsov, Bouchard, Wahlstrom, and Dobson would have all been better picks.

Keep doubling down on the infinite amount of excuses for this kid... "HIS PLAY AWAY FROM THE PUCK HAS DEVELOPED SO MUCH IGNORE THE DEPRESSED SCORING NUMBERS HES DEVELOPING"... He is indeed developing, but not in any significant way to get excited about. This kid does not have toolbox or the smarts to ever be anything beyond an average complimentary 2nd liner winger.

Doubt me if you want. I saw Seider's greatness ahead of everyone, and I saw Zadina's flaws. One is accelerating at mach speed and the other continues to flounder. Color me surprised. I'm still very confident in my assessment... despite the ridiculous outrage levied against me for it over the seasons.

Boohoo, your 6th overall was drafted WAY too high for his actual value. Get over it and remove the Wings bias when assessing your players.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Gniwder

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

I would just like to point out that the Wings had glaring needs at every position on the roster. Not a fan of the Holland/Wright drafts but taking what they thought was BPA was the right decision. 

Yup , i remember wanting dobson that year cause our d was complete s*** since lidstrom left and i liked the kid but we couldnt pass up on zadina. He’s only 6 pts behind larkin and obviously we’d want more goals from zadina but its way too soon to write him off

the whole team is s***  from the back to the front to the coach , add in seider,raymond,bertuzzi at 100% possibly a few more guys and i can see him getting 20-30 next season in 82 games

 

[Gniwder 168]

7 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Yup , i remember wanting dobson that year cause our d was complete s*** since lidstrom left and i liked the kid but we couldnt pass up on zadina. He’s only 6 pts behind larkin and obviously we’d want more goals from zadina but its way too soon to write him off

the whole team is s***  from the back to the front to the coach , add in seider,raymond,bertuzzi at 100% possibly a few more guys and i can see him getting 20-30 next season in 82 games

 

Zadina is on a 30 some point pace. If I'm Yzerman I'm waiting for his first big standout season - where he comes in hot and goes on a 60 point pace at like 23 years old. Then I immediately Flip him at that deadline or draft for something better like a younger center or Dman like the Sergachev trade. Let anther team gamble on him becoming the next Hossa (he won't). Use the opportunity to salvage as many assets as we can.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Gniwder

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

58 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

Zadina is on a 30 some point pace. If I'm Yzerman I'm waiting for his first big standout season - where he comes in hot and goes on a 60 point pace at like 23 years old. Then I immediately Flip him at that deadline or draft for something better like a younger center or Dman like the Sergachev trade. Let anther team gamble on him becoming the next Hossa (he won't). Use the opportunity to salvage as many assets as we can.

Here's you -> Zadina = awful

Here's also you -> once he has his 60 pt season, trade him

 

 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

1 hour ago, Gniwder said:

Now I know why the other GMs passed on the supposed #2/#3 player. Holland clearly didn't do his homework and should have also passed on him as well like the 5 GMs before him. 1 dimensional winger with pumped up numbers.

Yup, Buffalo and Carolina passed on Zadina.

[Gniwder 168]

13 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Here's you -> Zadina = awful

Here's also you -> once he has his 60 pt season, trade him

 

 

You're using the exact same strawman every Red Wing slappy uses when this discussion comes up...

I've never argued Zadina won't score points or play in the NHL. I've argued he's a one dimensional complimentary player who you should not consider a foundational piece of the roster. There's a big difference between Hudler on your roster scoring 60 pts, and Hossa on your roster scoring 60 pts. Zadina is the former, not the later.

If we can skip with the whole misrepresenting folks positions that would be more constructive. I know you know my actual position.

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

23 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Here's you -> Zadina = awful

Here's also you -> once he has his 60 pt season, trade him

 

 

Hell lets just become a farm system for the rest of the league while we're at it.

[Gniwder 168]

3 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Yup, Buffalo and Carolina passed on Zadina.

B A S ED Buffalo. C H A D Carolina.

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, Gniwder said:

You're using the exact same strawman every Red Wing slappy uses when this discussion comes up...

I've never argued Zadina won't score points or play in the NHL. I've argued he's a one dimensional complimentary player who you should not consider a foundational piece of the roster. There's a big difference between Hudler on your roster scoring 60 pts, and Hossa on your roster scoring 60 pts. Zadina is the former, not the later.

If we can skip with the whole misrepresenting folks positions that would be more constructive. I know you know my actual position.

 

Not sure you even know what that means at this point. 

The kid has left Hudler in the dust as far as play without the puck goes. 

[Gniwder 168]

2 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Hell lets just become a farm system for the rest of the league while we're at it.

Trading complimentary players for picks like Tatar, Nyquist, AA ---> Smart
Letting complimentary players walk for no picks like Filppula, Hudler ---> Not smart

Trading complimentary Zadina ---> Smart