Players who might be available due to expansion draft

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Players will be available at good prices due to the expansion draft  , was checking around and noticed the flyers for example

Unless they decide to move a big player like voracek/konecky (dont know why they would) id say those 2 will be protected up front with giroux,hayes,van riemsdyk,couturier and since they just extended laughton im guessing he’s the last one leaving #2 former pick nolan patrick available 

He’s gonna be 23 in september and hes looking like a definite bust so i dont know if hes worth taking a look at ? What Would the cost even be? Vegas 3 rd?

Anyways , any other similar examples anyone sees of players being available we should take a look at? I know dumba will likely be available but id rather maybe look at vince dunn depending the price obviously 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Van Riemsdyk will be left unprotected. He's on the wrong side of 30, makes a zillion dollars, and doesn't have trade protection.

Of the two I'd rather have Dunn than Dumba considering Dumba is a righty and we've got Seider and Hronek on the right side and they're both better than Dumba.

As I've said in other threads, I MIGHT take a look at Ryan Johansen via trade. If you could get Nashville to eat some salary AND if Johansen's struggles this year have a good explanation, we might finally have a 2C who's not f*cking horrible.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

24 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Van Riemsdyk will be left unprotected. He's on the wrong side of 30, makes a zillion dollars, and doesn't have trade protection.

Of the two I'd rather have Dunn than Dumba considering Dumba is a righty and we've got Seider and Hronek on the right side and they're both better than Dumba.

As I've said in other threads, I MIGHT take a look at Ryan Johansen via trade. If you could get Nashville to eat some salary AND if Johansen's struggles this year have a good explanation, we might finally have a 2C who's not f*cking horrible.

Umm but if they trade jvr itll likely be a hockey deal and not someone we should look at 

Dunn is 24 i believe ? Could be someone worth taking a shot at imo if we’s be willing go expose cholowski/lindstrom which i think they couldnt care less about

Johansson is a big risk imo , another 5 yrs as well? + i dont know if making ourselves slightly better in the next few yrs to get 7-12th picks in two deep drafts would be a wise move? Was thinking maybe someone young enough that can be had dirt cheap and become something? Thats why i thought of nolan if he was possibly available but im not even sold on if he can turn it around and be a 20+ guy atbthis point

Id have to further check rosters but i also fabbro might be available id nashville doesnt trade ekholm? Although if im Nashville id protect 4 and leave duchene or johanson exposed and hope they take 8 mill off their hands

[kipwinger 8,524]

My point is that JVR will be left unprotected, not Nolan Patrick. Count on it. But either way, Nolan Patrick sucks. He wasn't really all that good when he was drafted, and he's injured constantly now. There's nothing he could do for us that Joe Veleno or Michael Rasmussen couldn't do as well or better.

Secondly, people have to get past this "if we get better we're not going to get a top pick" mentality. If we keep bottoming out every year we're going either A) waste the careers of good young players, or B) begin to lose good players to trade requests/free agency. Sucking every year just to get top prospects is a terrible idea and doesn't seem to have helped Buffalo or Edmonton either. And the reason why is because they have a culture of losing and apathy that can't be changed just by drafting an Eichel or McDavid. I'd MUCH rather draft in the 10-15 range for the next couple years and hope to land a Martin Necas instead of losing year after year in hopes of landing a Jack Hughes.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Been rumors of voracek being dealt , maybe theyll just trade patrick before the expansion draft or finally deal patrick but i cant see any scenario where jvr is exposed at the draft . He has a high cap hit but its only for two more seasons and the guys currently leading the team in pts. If they still want to compete next season he’ll stick around

Never liked patrick his draft yr either, whole point was picking someone on the cheap and hoping they can be flipped for a better return . He was just an example

Dude next two drafts will have franchise changing players  and we can still get someone very good at 2-3 , you might not care and want to get rid of this “losing mentality” but trust me yzerman cares . You can count on your hand how many players currently on the team that will be here in 3-4 yrs so it has no effect

Its nice of you to bring up buffalo and edmonton but conviently skip out on pitt,chi . Its nice to go get the necas every year but its also more likely we’ll get rasmussen’s and keep picking in the 8-13 range and stay in limbo. We need elite talent if we’re gonna compete for cups and yes it sucks 21 draft doesnt but next 2 do so the with any luck and the prospect pipeline of guys soon coming we should be  ready to turn the corner in 2-3 yrs

,

Edited April 21, 2021 by nyqvististhefuture

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Any well managed team can rebuild successfully with consecutive picks in the 5-10 range. You don't need 1s and 2s to do it. That just makes it easier.

[kipwinger 8,524]

6 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Been rumors of voracek being dealt , maybe theyll just trade patrick before the expansion draft or finally deal patrick but i cant see any scenario where jvr is exposed at the draft . He has a high cap hit but its only for two more seasons and the guys currently leading the team in pts. If they still want to compete next season he’ll stick around

Never liked patrick his draft yr either, whole point was picking someone on the cheap and hoping they can be flipped for a better return . He was just an example

Dude next two drafts will have franchise changing players  and we can still get someone very good at 2-3 , you might not care and want to get rid of this “losing mentality” but trust me yzerman cares . You can count on your hand how many players currently on the team that will be here in 3-4 yrs so it has no effect

Its nice of you to bring up buffalo and edmonton but conviently skip out on pitt,chi . Its nice to go get the necas every year but its also more likely we’ll get rasmussen’s and keep picking in the 8-13 range and stay in limbo. We need elite talent if we’re gonna compete for cups and yes it sucks 21 draft doesnt but next 2 do so the with any luck and the prospect pipeline of guys soon coming we should be  ready to turn the corner in 2-3 yrs

,

1. The winning culture in Detroit was built on Yzerman's back after the Red Wings were mismanaged into oblivion in the 80s and early 90s. If you think that guy is okay with tanking year after year waiting for a top pick you're nuts.

2. Patrick is hurt often and sucks. Why would anybody pay more for him via a "flip"?

3. Prior to the Pens drafting Malkin (and then Crosby the next draft) they missed the playoffs for three straight seasons. They went to the playoffs for 11 straight seasons before that. They tore down and rebuilt VERY quickly. That absolutely DID NOT pursue a strategy of prolonged losing. Of the teams we've discussed Chi, Edm, and Buffalo all had prolonged losing periods followed by high picks, and it only worked out well for Chicago. It's not like being terrible forever waiting for an Auston Matthews is some recipe for success. It fails just as often (or more often) than it's successful.

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Oh ya im nuts , the winning culture had nothing to do with bringing in bowman hey? Or drafting lidstrom,fedorov,konstantinov?if i recall we also had keith primeau drafted at the top who was later flipped for shanahan ... jimmy carson who was a top pick who we had in early 90s

where we gonna get all this top talent? It be fun to get the late gems again like we did in the 80s and hopefully we will but we cant bank on it . Yzerman knows it takes elite talent to win and what better way than to get in on a mcdavid type draft two years in a row? Add that to raymond,seider etc.. and we should be ready to make noise soon enough otherwise have fun being in oblivion for another decade

Yes he does .. again purpose of the hypothetical is if he bounded , obviously no ones gonna pay anything if he sucks ... he had back to back 14 goal seasons i believe prior 

Dude pens were given crosby , won malkin ,fleury in a short span and they turned s*** around quickly cause of it so obviously you didnt have to pursue a strategy of losing . If you think yzerman isnt unintentionally trying to tank i dont know what to tell you .youll be dissapointed when blashill is back and some kids like raymond,veleno are held off again at the start of the year

you think leafs would be in the mix if not for matthews/marner? Anyways its never a guarantee if you tank to be at the bottom youll turn it around but if you have competent ppl running s*** like we think yzerman’s capable of itll be ok . We already have great pieces and if we add a shane wright/bedard we’ll be laughing but heck if you wanna risk it and keep picking 7-20th picks for a decade we’re gonna wait a long time till we start turning s*** around

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Oh ya im nuts , the winning culture had nothing to do with bringing in bowman hey? Or drafting lidstrom,fedorov,konstantinov?if i recall we also had keith primeau drafted at the top who was later flipped for shanahan ... jimmy carson who was a top pick who we had in early 90s

where we gonna get all this top talent? It be fun to get the late gems again like we did in the 80s and hopefully we will but we cant bank on it . Yzerman knows it takes elite talent to win and what better way than to get in on a mcdavid type draft two years in a row? Add that to raymond,seider etc.. and we should be ready to make noise soon enough otherwise have fun being in oblivion for another decade

Yes he does .. again purpose of the hypothetical is if he bounded , obviously no ones gonna pay anything if he sucks ... he had back to back 14 goal seasons i believe prior 

Dude pens were given crosby , won malkin ,fleury in a short span and they turned s*** around quickly cause of it so obviously you didnt have to pursue a strategy of losing . If you think yzerman isnt unintentionally trying to tank i dont know what to tell you .youll be dissapointed when blashill is back and some kids like raymond,veleno are held off again at the start of the year

you think leafs would be in the mix if not for matthews/marner? Anyways its never a guarantee if you tank to be at the bottom youll turn it around but if you have competent ppl running s*** like we think yzerman’s capable of itll be ok . We already have great pieces and if we add a shane wright/bedard we’ll be laughing but heck if you wanna risk it and keep picking 7-20th picks for a decade we’re gonna wait a long time till we start turning s*** around

 

You realize that we could literally lose for the next 10-15 years and never get a chance to draft someone as good as Crosby or Malkin or Kane or Ovechkin or McDavid or Matthews or whomever else you think we're going to get right? If your plan for winning is to hold out for one (or two) all time great players then you're going to fail FAR more often than you're going to win. The Pens didn't win because they tanked. They won because their high draft picks just so happened to coincide with the greatest player of his generation. Same with Ovie, Kane, McDavid, Matthews. These guys don't grow on trees. You're just as likely (or more likely) to be terrible for a prolonged stretch and end up with Jack Hughes and Nico Hischier than you are with Malkin/Crosby, Kane/Toews, McDavid/Draisaitl.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

8 hours ago, kipwinger said:

You realize that we could literally lose for the next 10-15 years and never get a chance to draft someone as good as Crosby or Malkin or Kane or Ovechkin or McDavid or Matthews or whomever else you think we're going to get right? If your plan for winning is to hold out for one (or two) all time great players then you're going to fail FAR more often than you're going to win. The Pens didn't win because they tanked. They won because their high draft picks just so happened to coincide with the greatest player of his generation. Same with Ovie, Kane, McDavid, Matthews. These guys don't grow on trees. You're just as likely (or more likely) to be terrible for a prolonged stretch and end up with Jack Hughes and Nico Hischier than you are with Malkin/Crosby, Kane/Toews, McDavid/Draisaitl.

Yes i realize that , i also realize that we’re a rebuilding team with 2 drafts coming up where we can get a great player if we’re in the top 3 and it would be counterproductive to decide now is the time to finish 10th last when we have no superstar in sight ... mind you i think raymond will very very good + 1st pair dman in seider coming so if we can add a few more pieces in upcoming drafts and with yzerman running s*** i got more confidence in us being a chicago/pitt type team than buff/ariz .... but we need those elite 1st line guys 

 maybe you should google the 2022/2023 drafts the top guys arent being touted as hughes/hischier/2021 draft ... wright and bedard has been highly touted for years ,lambert/savoie as well in 2022 and michkov/fantilli in 2023 ... very good players and i do believe it would be foolish to think yzerman doesn’t recognize this . He’ll delay the arrival of raymond,veleno etc.. next season and make moderate changes and i wouldnt be surprised if he tries to weaken us and trade bertuzzi or whomever if the opportunity arrives 

And i dont know how you can say the pens didnt win cause they tanked , they were at the bottom of the league and their picks resulted in great players which is what you want to happen , same with hawks .... anyways i dont think this rebuild will be another 10+ yrs if we luck out in 22/23 with the kids we have coming and yzerman as gm we’ll be in the mix sooner rather than later

Edited April 22, 2021 by nyqvististhefuture

[marcaractac 3,963]

29 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Yes i realize that , i also realize that we’re a rebuilding team with 2 drafts coming up where we can get a great player if we’re in the top 3 and it would be counterproductive to decide now is the time to finish 10th last when we have no superstar in sight ... mind you i think raymond will very very good + 1st pair dman in seider coming so if we can add a few more pieces in upcoming drafts and with yzerman running s*** i got more confidence in us being a chicago/pitt type team than buff/ariz .... but we need those elite 1st line guys 

 maybe you should google the 2022/2023 drafts the top guys arent being touted as hughes/hischier/2021 draft ... wright and bedard has been highly touted for years ,lambert/savoie as well in 2022 and michkov/fantilli in 2023 ... very good players and i do believe it would be foolish to think yzerman doesn’t recognize this . He’ll delay the arrival of raymond,veleno etc.. next season and make moderate changes and i wouldnt be surprised if he tries to weaken us and trade bertuzzi or whomever if the opportunity arrives 

And i dont know how you can say the pens didnt win cause they tanked , they were at the bottom of the league and their picks resulted in great players which is what you want to happen , same with hawks .... anyways i dont think this rebuild will be another 10+ yrs if we luck out in 22/23 with the kids we have coming and yzerman as gm we’ll be in the mix sooner rather than later

We're not gonna be in the running for Wright or Bedard. I get wanting to be, but we won't. Next year's draft is stacked in general. A top 10 pick next year will net a great player. 

Successful teams also find steals with late first and second round picks. We have to hit on a couple of those if we're gonna become perennial contenders. 

We might not get McDavids or Crosbys. But that also means we wont be spending 10+ million on multiple players and can afford to maintain depth. Look what happened to Chicago once Toews and Kane started their big deals. They won cups with the help of insane depth, and now miss the playoffs every year despite still having their 'core'. Give me guys like Necas or O'Reilly. That leads to the ability to maintain depth and be in it every year. Look at Carolina, for example.  

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

37 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

We're not gonna be in the running for Wright or Bedard. I get wanting to be, but we won't. Next year's draft is stacked in general. A top 10 pick next year will net a great player. 

Successful teams also find steals with late first and second round picks. We have to hit on a couple of those if we're gonna become perennial contenders. 

We might not get McDavids or Crosbys. But that also means we wont be spending 10+ million on multiple players and can afford to maintain depth. Look what happened to Chicago once Toews and Kane started their big deals. They won cups with the help of insane depth, and now miss the playoffs every year despite still having their 'core'. Give me guys like Necas or O'Reilly. That leads to the ability to maintain depth and be in it every year. Look at Carolina, for example.  

Why because you say we wont? You actually think we wont be in the bottom 5 next year? Buffalo was projected to be alot better than this year and its been a disaster but if eichel returns and is the player we know he is there’s good chances theyre better than us

Im well aware good teams pick up good players in the later rounds facts are though we havent been doing too good a job in 20 yrs .... what happened with chicago was the gm’s fault , they already won their cups i cant imagine a scenario where yzerman would reward a star player with that type of contract for past cups he’s cuth throat and would trade that player in a second ... hawks miss the playoffs every year now cause outside of those core guys they dont have much depth and keith got older , seabrook broke down and retired etc...

i never disputed the fact you need more than just a few elite guys but you still need them ... stl winning the cup with an o’reilly as the star guy is the anomaly ...its not like the 2022 draft is far away and we’re already close to making noise i dont even know how you could think we wont be contending at the bottom next year, this team sucks

you look at the standings and its not  far fetched to see ottawa whos up and coming will be better than us next season , and theres good odds cbj  with werenski in full time and if laine waking up surpass us  ... we’ll definetly 100% be in the bottom next year

Also our defense is complete horses*** , seider will help bigtime but hes still a rookie and hronek will help put up some pts on the back end outside that theres nothing

Edited April 22, 2021 by nyqvististhefuture

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Why because you say we wont? You actually think we wont be in the bottom 5 next year? Buffalo was projected to be alot better than this year and its been a disaster but if eichel returns and is the player we know he is there’s good chances theyre better than us

Im well aware good teams pick up good players in the later rounds facts are though we havent been doing too good a job in 20 yrs .... what happened with chicago was the gm’s fault , they already won their cups i cant imagine a scenario where yzerman would reward a star player with that type of contract for past cups he’s cuth throat and would trade that player in a second ... hawks miss the playoffs every year now cause outside of those core guys they dont have much depth and keith got older , seabrook broke down and retired etc...

i never disputed the fact you need more than just a few elite guys but you still need them ... stl winning the cup with an o’reilly as the star guy is the anomaly ...its not like the 2022 draft is far away and we’re already close to making noise i dont even know how you could think we wont be contending at the bottom next year, this team sucks

you look at the standings and its not  far fetched to see ottawa whos up and coming will be better than us next season , and theres good odds cbj  with werenski in full time and if laine waking up surpass us  ... we’ll definetly 100% be in the bottom next year

Also our defense is complete horses*** , seider will help bigtime but hes still a rookie and hronek will help put up some pts on the back end outside that theres nothing

We're not in the bottom 5 now, and will likely improve even more next year. Why will be be a bottom team next year, because you say they will?

Wings will be younger and better next season. They are a hard working and well coached team. They have good goaltending. Ottawa does not. Buffalo may not. Columbus is a disaster. They have a one-dimensional high scoring winger who isn't scoring much and two really good dmen. Yeah... so much better than Detroit. Even if one of these teams pass Detroit next season, there is still Seattle. Good chance they are more of a traditional expansion team. 

Bottom 5 is unlikely this year, even more unlikely next year, and very unlikely in 2023 unless there is massive regression. If you're expecting top 3 picks, you might wanna temper expectations. 

[Gniwder 168]

Bottom line is the team needs impact players. And we're gonna suck ass until we get them. The most we can look forward to next year is the addition of Seider. He will certainly be an impact player - but I don't think rookie Seider is gonna overhaul the team immediately.

Maybe if we added a Philip Danault and/or Mike Reilly in the offseason we would improve a bit - but again these aren't the significant impact players that we need - and I doubt prime players like this want to come here right now anyway.

The only exciting part about this offseason is likely to be the expansion draft. I see Yzerman probably being very active wheeling and dealing. But this will probably be him taking on more salary for draft picks again helping other teams facilitate their needs for the expansion.

TLDR - we suck and we're going to continue to suck

[kipwinger 8,524]

I don't disagree that we need impact players, I just disagree that we have to bottom out over and over again to get them. And I'd add that doing so would have long term negative effects for the franchise, even IF we get a top pick. It's just as likely that you get a Kopitar at 11th and trade for a Carter as it is that you tank year after year and get a Malkin and Crosby.

Edited April 22, 2021 by kipwinger

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't disagree that we need impact players, I just disagree that we have to bottom out over and over again to get them. And I'd add that doing so would have long term negative effects for the franchise, even IF get get a top pick. It's just as likely that you get a Kopitar at 11th and trade for a Carter as it is that you tank year after year and get a Malkin and Crosby.

This is especially true when you look at the depth of the 2022 draft. The top 3 alone are projected to be better than the #1 most years. Anyone picking in the top 10 that draft should get an important player.

Seider himself wasn't taken until #6 and was projected to be picked much later than that. 

The competitive hockey the team currently plays most nights and learning to play the right way is more important to long term success than running the tank every year.

Edited April 22, 2021 by marcaractac

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

7 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

We're not in the bottom 5 now, and will likely improve even more next year. Why will be be a bottom team next year, because you say they will?

Wings will be younger and better next season. They are a hard working and well coached team. They have good goaltending. Ottawa does not. Buffalo may not. Columbus is a disaster. They have a one-dimensional high scoring winger who isn't scoring much and two really good dmen. Yeah... so much better than Detroit. Even if one of these teams pass Detroit next season, there is still Seattle. Good chance they are more of a traditional expansion team. 

Bottom 5 is unlikely this year, even more unlikely next year, and very unlikely in 2023 unless there is massive regression. If you're expecting top 3 picks, you might wanna temper expectations. 

So because we’re not in the bottom 5 today means we wont be next year? Sure ... no cause our roster and other teams around say we wont be  but if you wanna look at the standings and assume cause we’re ahead of the likes of ottawa/buffalo we’ll be ahead of them again next yesr go ahead

 

I expect yzerman to withhold some younger guys and delay them a year or wait till the trade deadline ,im guessing you disagree with that which is cool but we’ll just have to wait and see whos on the team game 1 then . Blashill is a moron and cant be gone soon enough ,but he’ll be back cause of the end game

Bernier might not even be back and greiss was horrible in case you havent noticed ... sens have a much better roster than us but sure look past that,sabres will likely resign ullmark if not they still have eichel/dahlin ... and they been better since kruger left i dont expect them to be at the bottom next season and we dont have a werenski/jones duo in detroit , cbj’s goaltending duo is better than ours and they have a 40 goal guy in laine and some good pieces i dont expect them to be near the bottom. Yes better than det

time will tell but i see ourselves,seattle,nj,ducks in the mix

if your expecting us to be good youd better temper expectations, just enjoy the seider show... we’ll see whos right next year

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't disagree that we need impact players, I just disagree that we have to bottom out over and over again to get them. And I'd add that doing so would have long term negative effects for the franchise, even IF we get a top pick. It's just as likely that you get a Kopitar at 11th and trade for a Carter as it is that you tank year after year and get a Malkin and Crosby.

Nobodys talking about bottoming out for the rest of time but we have two very impactful drafts right here right now  

i dont believe it would have negative effects cause i dont think most of the guys on the team today will be here in 3-4 yrs so itll be a new crop of guys including seider and raymond who have a winning mentality they wont let it go on forever 

Sure id love to get a kopitar at 10 but that doesnt happen very often in that range and theres a bigger chance another team ends up taking that player than us

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, nyqvististhefuture said:

So because we’re not in the bottom 5 today means we wont be next year? Sure ... no cause our roster and other teams around say we wont be  but if you wanna look at the standings and assume cause we’re ahead of the likes of ottawa/buffalo we’ll be ahead of them again next yesr go ahead

 

I expect yzerman to withhold some younger guys and delay them a year or wait till the trade deadline ,im guessing you disagree with that which is cool but we’ll just have to wait and see whos on the team game 1 then . Blashill is a moron and cant be gone soon enough ,but he’ll be back cause of the end game

Bernier might not even be back and greiss was horrible in case you havent noticed ... sens have a much better roster than us but sure look past that,sabres will likely resign ullmark if not they still have eichel/dahlin ... and they been better since kruger left i dont expect them to be at the bottom next season and we dont have a werenski/jones duo in detroit , cbj’s goaltending duo is better than ours and they have a 40 goal guy in laine and some good pieces i dont expect them to be near the bottom. Yes better than det

time will tell but i see ourselves,seattle,nj,ducks in the mix

if your expecting us to be good youd better temper expectations, just enjoy the seider show... we’ll see whos right next year

Dude you keep talking about teams below us passing us next year. What about teams ahead of us that'll fall? That is literally just as likely. 

So Buffalo will likely re-sign Ulmark, but Bernie is all but gone?

Laine scored 40 goals once, while on a stacked Jets roster at the time.

Not once did I say Detroit will be good next season. I simply see no reason they won't continue to show improvement. 

[Gniwder 168]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't disagree that we need impact players, I just disagree that we have to bottom out over and over again to get them. And I'd add that doing so would have long term negative effects for the franchise, even IF get get a top pick. It's just as likely that you get a Kopitar at 11th and trade for a Carter as it is that you tank year after year and get a Malkin and Crosby.

You may not have much of a choice (for now). Quality UFA's aren't coming here. And we're in no position to make major additions via trade unless it's a sneaky Fabbri type deal - which I wouldn't call a regular standard we should expect.

Our future outlook is gonna depend a lot upon the extensions Yzerman hands out this year.

Vrana
Erne
Rasmussen
Svechnikov
Cholowski
Lindstrom
Hronek
Bertuzzi
Smith

That's a pretty significant portion of the important pieces of our roster, with Vrana, Bertuzzi, and Hronek being the big fish. Do these 3 get one year extensions? 2? 3? Vrana and Bertuzzi will be UFA's when this next deal expires and eligible to walk (or be traded). Yzerman will essentially be giving himself a timeline with this next round of extensions.

Mantha has 3 more seasons here after this one - this might be the best indicator of what Yzerman thought his timeline might be.
Larkin has 2 more seasons here before UFA.
Fabbri has 1 more before UFA.

If this team is bad again next year Fabbri is very likely the next one to go. Larkin could be next after that. I think we're looking at least 3 more seaons of rebuilding as Raymond and Yzerman's other boys come up the pipe.

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

8 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Dude you keep talking about teams below us passing us next year. What about teams ahead of us that'll fall? That is literally just as likely. 

So Buffalo will likely re-sign Ulmark, but Bernie is all but gone?

Laine scored 40 goals once, while on a stacked Jets roster at the time.

Not once did I say Detroit will be good next season. I simply see no reason they won't continue to show improvement. 

Well who do you thinks gonna fall? L.a is getting better ... sj still have good crop of guys ... flames maybe if they trade gaudreau/monahan , i dont see too many teams ahead of us now that we  can surpass next season

I dont see too many teams looking for a #1 goalie , sure theres a chance someone else gets ullmark but i expect buff to sign him before ufa starts. They have literally nothing else 

I could be wrong with bernier but i think he’ll go be a backup with a contending team , why stick around here and keep losing? If he can go sign with colorado/leafs etc.. why wouldnt he?

Ok lets not question laine’s talent now ... i think everyone knew a laine/torts duo wouldnt work out , we all know hes got the abilities to get back to 40+  ... he didnt play with scheifele in winnipeg which he complained at countless times about

The redwings are 4 pts away from being bottom 2 , they can improve next season and still be bottom 3 , we’ll get to play against vegas,avs and the best of the rest next season. I don’t buy too much stock into this season with everyone playing the same teams over and over .... same goes with other teams like Florida etc.. 

Anyways again we’ll see what happens , we have alot of spots opening up ... maybe yzerman adds in poor players again as well for picks so we’ll have to see what hes got in store for us

Edited April 22, 2021 by nyqvististhefuture

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

So because we’re not in the bottom 5 today means we wont be next year? Sure ... no cause our roster and other teams around say we wont be  but if you wanna look at the standings and assume cause we’re ahead of the likes of ottawa/buffalo we’ll be ahead of them again next yesr go ahead

 

I expect yzerman to withhold some younger guys and delay them a year or wait till the trade deadline ,im guessing you disagree with that which is cool but we’ll just have to wait and see whos on the team game 1 then . Blashill is a moron and cant be gone soon enough ,but he’ll be back cause of the end game

Bernier might not even be back and greiss was horrible in case you havent noticed ... sens have a much better roster than us but sure look past that,sabres will likely resign ullmark if not they still have eichel/dahlin ... and they been better since kruger left i dont expect them to be at the bottom next season and we dont have a werenski/jones duo in detroit , cbj’s goaltending duo is better than ours and they have a 40 goal guy in laine and some good pieces i dont expect them to be near the bottom. Yes better than det

time will tell but i see ourselves,seattle,nj,ducks in the mix

if your expecting us to be good youd better temper expectations, just enjoy the seider show... we’ll see whos right next year

Nobodys talking about bottoming out for the rest of time but we have two very impactful drafts right here right now  

i dont believe it would have negative effects cause i dont think most of the guys on the team today will be here in 3-4 yrs so itll be a new crop of guys including seider and raymond who have a winning mentality they wont let it go on forever 

Sure id love to get a kopitar at 10 but that doesnt happen very often in that range and theres a bigger chance another team ends up taking that player than us

Getting a Kopitar at 11 happens just as often as getting a McDavid at 1. Your logic makes no sense. But I've been talking about this for years now. You (and others like you) get soooo caught up in the hype of the draft that you're completely blind to the fact that those consensus #1 picks are RARELY that much better (or better at all) than guys you could get later in the draft. When all is said and done Alexis Lafreniere isn't going to be any better than Tim Stutzle. Jack Hughes won't be any better than Trevor Zegras. Rasmus Dahlin won't be any better than Quinn Hughes. You've bought into this idea that we need to tank to get these guys that are SOOOO much more "elite" and the reality is that they aren't really better at all.

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Well who do you thinks gonna fall? L.a is getting better ... sj still have good crop of guys ... flames maybe if they trade gaudreau/monahan , i dont see too many teams ahead of us now that we  can surpass next season

I dont see too many teams looking for a #1 goalie , sure theres a chance someone else gets ullmark but i expect buff to sign him before ufa starts. They have literally nothing else 

I could be wrong with bernier but i think he’ll go be a backup with a contending team , why stick around here and keep losing? If he can go sign with colorado/leafs etc.. why wouldnt he?

Ok lets not question laine’s talent now ... i think everyone knew a laine/torts duo wouldnt work out , we all know hes got the abilities to get back to 40+  ... he didnt play with scheifele in winnipeg which he complained at countless times about

The redwings are 4 pts away from being bottom 2 , they can improve next season and still be bottom 3 , we’ll get to play against vegas,avs and the best of the rest next season. I don’t buy too much stock into this season with everyone playing the same teams over and over .... same goes with other teams like Florida etc.. 

Anyways again we’ll see what happens , we have alot of spots opening up ... maybe yzerman adds in poor players again as well for picks so we’ll have to see what hes got in store 

Teams fall off the face of the earth all the time. 

Bernier himself said he loves it in Detroit. Not far fetched to think he might stick around. 

You seem to have a lot of faith in Laine carrying Columbus. 

Yes. Detroit plays more good teams next season. They also play more bad teams. It balances out. We're in a division where the top 3 teams are top 5 in the entire league. Yet here we are, not in the bottom 5. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Getting a Kopitar at 11 happens just as often as getting a McDavid at 1. Your logic makes no sense. But I've been talking about this for years now. You (and others like you) get soooo caught up in the hype of the draft that you're completely blind to the fact that those consensus #1 picks are RARELY that much better (or better at all) than guys you could get later in the draft. When all is said and done Alexis Lafreniere isn't going to be any better than Tim Stutzle. Jack Hughes won't be any better than Trevor Zegras. Rasmus Dahlin won't be any better than Quinn Hughes. You've bought into this idea that we need to tank to get these guys that are SOOOO much more "elite" and the reality is that they aren't really better at all.

1 Brian Lawton

2 Sylvain Turgeon

3 Pat LaFontaine

4 Steve Yzerman

5 Tom Barrasso

6J ohn MacLean

7 Russ Courtnall

8 Andrew McBain 

9 Cam Neely 

10 Normand Lacombe

 

Look at the number of guys here in the top ten of the '83 draft that had much better careers than poor Lawton...

[marcaractac 3,963]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Getting a Kopitar at 11 happens just as often as getting a McDavid at 1. Your logic makes no sense. But I've been talking about this for years now. You (and others like you) get soooo caught up in the hype of the draft that you're completely blind to the fact that those consensus #1 picks are RARELY that much better (or better at all) than guys you could get later in the draft. When all is said and done Alexis Lafreniere isn't going to be any better than Tim Stutzle. Jack Hughes won't be any better than Trevor Zegras. Rasmus Dahlin won't be any better than Quinn Hughes. You've bought into this idea that we need to tank to get these guys that are SOOOO much more "elite" and the reality is that they aren't really better at all.

This. It's like what, one out of every 10-12 years you get that #1 pick that legit is heads above everyone else? The only perk of winning the lottery is choice.

[kipwinger 8,524]

19 minutes ago, Gniwder said:

You may not have much of a choice (for now). Quality UFA's aren't coming here. And we're in no position to make major additions via trade unless it's a sneaky Fabbri type deal - which I wouldn't call a regular standard we should expect.

Our future outlook is gonna depend a lot upon the extensions Yzerman hands out this year.

Vrana
Erne
Rasmussen
Svechnikov
Cholowski
Lindstrom
Hronek
Bertuzzi
Smith

That's a pretty significant portion of the important pieces of our roster, with Vrana, Bertuzzi, and Hronek being the big fish. Do these 3 get one year extensions? 2? 3? Vrana and Bertuzzi will be UFA's when this next deal expires and eligible to walk (or be traded). Yzerman will essentially be giving himself a timeline with this next round of extensions.

Mantha has 3 more seasons here after this one - this might be the best indicator of what Yzerman thought his timeline might be.
Larkin has 2 more seasons here before UFA.
Fabbri has 1 more before UFA.

If this team is bad again next year Fabbri is very likely the next one to go. Larkin could be next after that. I think we're looking at least 3 more seaons of rebuilding as Raymond and Yzerman's other boys come up the pipe.

 

Some of those guys will be traded, but some won't. Either way, you're falling into the same logic trap as the other guy, which is that Yzerman's only way to make the team competitive is to keep cycling through guys year after year looking for upgrades via the draft. I don't see that as the case. At a certain point we'll have enough picks and good prospects to make impact trades. Similarly as we continue to improve our chances of landing free agents improves as well.

My guess is that Yzerman didn't give Larkin the "C" just to trade him. I just don't see it. I think he plans to build around Larkin, Seider, Raymond and probably whomever else he takes this year. I doubt he's looking to the draft  2 or 3 seasons from now as building blocks considering by the time those players hit the NHL guys like Seider will be as much older to them as Larkin is to him. The rest of the guys on your list will be trade bait or depth. If we land a top talent later in the first round (a la Kopitar or Necas or Pasternak or Kuznetsov etc. etc. etc.) great, if one becomes available for trade (a la Seguin or PLD) we'll go that route.

Either way I just don't see him pursuing a strategy of losing as much as possible each year with his fingers crossed hoping to land the next Auston Mathews.

Edited April 22, 2021 by kipwinger