2022 Draft / UFA

[bIueadams 776]

Zadina is only 22
He's ready to break out any second
Czech wingers traditionally need longer to develop
He's a future top 6 puck moving winger
Pic unrelated

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

cant wait to see Zadina go 1.75, 2, 2, 2.25 for 4 years and listen to Marc fantasy complain about it killing our fantasy cap room.  Meanwhile, he had himself fantasy negotiating an 8 year extension for league minimum with him because he thought he could fantasy lowball him and didnt understand restricted free agent dealings.

Zadina is not getting a 4 year deal. SY is not going to commit long term to an underachieving player. It will be a shorter term as he is still somewhat of an unknown in terms of his "final form". 3 years at most.1.75, 2.0 if 2 year deal.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[bIueadams 776]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Zadina is not getting a 4 year deal. SY is not going to commit long term to an underachieving player. It will be a shorter term as he is still somewhat of an unknown in terms of his "final form". 3 years at most.1.75, 2.0 if 2 year deal.

I'm picturing a 1 to 2 year deal max. 3 years is a lot to commit to a bad player showing no progress.

I also struggle to see why he'd get more money than Ras. Rasmussen is a much usable, and therefore valuable, forward at the moment. 

My highest offer to Z is 1.2 x 2, take it or go back to Czechia. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

14 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

cant wait to see Zadina go 1.75, 2, 2, 2.25 for 4 years and listen to Marc fantasy complain about it killing our fantasy cap room.  Meanwhile, he had himself fantasy negotiating an 8 year extension for league minimum with him because he thought he could fantasy lowball him and didnt understand restricted free agent dealings.

Salty boy once again can't handle my difference of opinion so has to make up his silly little stories. Grow up you ******* man child. 

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Zadina is not getting a 4 year deal. SY is not going to commit long term to an underachieving player. It will be a shorter term as he is still somewhat of an unknown in terms of his "final form". 3 years at most.1.75, 2.0 if 2 year deal.

Thank you for having common sense. Scott lacks that.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 hours ago, bIueadams said:

I'm picturing a 1 to 2 year deal max. 3 years is a lot to commit to a bad player showing no progress.

I also struggle to see why he'd get more money than Ras. Rasmussen is a much usable, and therefore valuable, forward at the moment. 

My highest offer to Z is 1.2 x 2, take it or go back to Czechia. 

Ras had done less than Zadina when that deal was signed. 

[bIueadams 776]

5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ras had done less than Zadina when that deal was signed. 

He had 100+ games and 30 pts. Took over for Larkin at 1C. Actually played a useful roll on the team.

I guess Zadina not scoring on the powerplay for 159 games is more? 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

18 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Zadina is not getting a 4 year deal. SY is not going to commit long term to an underachieving player. It will be a shorter term as he is still somewhat of an unknown in terms of his "final form". 3 years at most.1.75, 2.0 if 2 year deal.

I think you are spot on.

 

I think Blueadams is based, but BIASED with Zadina

 

I think Marc is learning, still

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, bIueadams said:

He had 100+ games and 30 pts. Took over for Larkin at 1C. Actually played a useful roll on the team.

I guess Zadina not scoring on the powerplay for 159 games is more? 

Ras had just finished a 40 game season. He spent the previous year in GR.

Zadina has been up for over 2 years.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

30 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ras had just finished a 40 game season. He spent the previous year in GR.

Zadina has been up for over 2 years.

facts

[bIueadams 776]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ras had just finished a 40 game season. He spent the previous year in GR.

Zadina has been up for over 2 years.

And b4 that Ras had just finished 62 games in the NHL at 18 years old.

Ras and Zadina both did 2 seasons previous to today. Why are pretending any different?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, bIueadams said:

And b4 that Ras had just finished 62 games in the NHL at 18 years old.

Ras and Zadina both did 2 seasons previous to today. Why are pretending any different?

Zadina wasn't demoted for an entire season tho. Ras was. He wasnt NHL ready at 18. He got demoted for an entire season. Then played in only 40 games after being brought back up. Ras had proven less, as a full time NHLer, when he negotiated that 3 year contract. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[mackel 679]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:25 PM, Jonas Mahonas said:

cant wait to see Zadina go 1.75, 2, 2, 2.25 for 4 years and listen to Marc fantasy complain about it killing our fantasy cap room.  Meanwhile, he had himself fantasy negotiating an 8 year extension for league minimum with him because he thought he could fantasy lowball him and didnt understand restricted free agent dealings.

Zadina is hot garbage dude... he's not worth a cent more than 1.5.

It's a moot point anyway... he's gone at the draft.  The question is how much do we need to package with him to get any sort of return out of a failed 6OA who can't hit, let alone fill nets.

 

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:31 PM, Jonas Mahonas said:

Larkin 9x8

Bertuzzi 6x8

Zadina 2x4

Walman 2x2

Those are probably pretty close to what the final numbers will be.

[bIueadams 776]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Zadina wasn't demoted for an entire season tho. Ras was. He wasnt NHL ready at 18. He got demoted for an entire season. Then played in only 40 games after being brought back up. Ras had proven less, as a full time NHLer, when he negotiated that 3 year contract. 

That's quite a narrative you're telling yourself. Ras was promoted earlier than 99% of prospects, including Zadina.

Zadina should have been demoted for this season and last. He's in way over his head. Ras on the other hand is carving out a modest living.

I bet you also think Cholowski deserves more than Walman cause ya know experience. Ignore the fact that he can't play.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

25 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

That's quite a narrative you're telling yourself. Ras was promoted earlier than 99% of prospects, including Zadina.

Zadina should have been demoted for this season and last. He's in way over his head. Ras on the other hand is carving out a modest living.

I bet you also think Cholowski deserves more than Walman cause ya know experience. Ignore the fact that he can't play.

Zadina needs 2 more assists now to hit a career high in assists.  He's on fire, pretty much.

[bIueadams 776]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Zadina needs 2 more assists now to hit a career high in assists.  He's on fire, pretty much.

Zadina has 5 whole primary assists on the season. 2 more is seven. Woah. Elite.

[kipwinger 8,522]

I'm starting to talk myself into Cutter Gauthier with our 1st (assuming we don't win the lottery). Big, fast, tough, can shoot, can play center or wing (his numbers at center this year were better than wing). Rumor has it that Yzerman and Co. really liked Mason McTavish at the draft last year but he went off the board early. Gauthier fits into that mold. Reminds me a lot of Mika Zibanejad.

I still really like Nazar and Kasper as well, so I'm not sure how I'd rank them, but Gauthier is solidly in the mix with those two for me now.

[marcaractac 3,963]

10 hours ago, mackel said:

Zadina is hot garbage dude... he's not worth a cent more than 1.5.

It's a moot point anyway... he's gone at the draft.  The question is how much do we need to package with him to get any sort of return out of a failed 6OA who can't hit, let alone fill nets.

 

Truth. The fact that this clown thinks I wanna see him around for a cheap 8-year deal is laughable. I wanna see him become someone else's problem. 

But hey, it's a guy whose every idea would lead this team to be stuck in permanent mediocrity. Zadina fits that mold quite well. 

Standards are falling in the fanbase.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

19 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Truth. The fact that this clown thinks I wanna see him around for a cheap 8-year deal is laughable. I wanna see him become someone else's problem. 

But hey, it's a guy whose every idea would lead this team to be stuck in permanent mediocrity. Zadina fits that mold quite well. 

Standards are falling in the fanbase.

The reality, which I've said before, is that Zadina is a top 12 forward in our organization right now.  And if you want him to not be, you need to acquire better players.

 

The difference between you and me is that I recognize that overpaying Forsberg type players in UFA and getting lucky in the draft are the only ways we are going to do that.  You think Yzerman is going to steal some good young prospects from other teams.  I know he is not.

 

Larkin

Raymond

Vrana

Bertuzzi

Veleno

Rasmussen

Berggren

 

Those are 7 guys ahead of Zadina on the depth chart and in importance, if Im being optomistic and generous with the last 3.

 

Until there are 5-7 more guys that are clearly better now and clearly have brighter futures with the team, what's the point of s***ting on Zadina one breath and then saying we shouldnt spend money on Forsberg in the next?  That's foolish.

[bIueadams 776]

58 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

The reality, which I've said before, is that Zadina is a top 12 forward in our organization right now.  And if you want him to not be, you need to acquire better players.

 

The difference between you and me is that I recognize that overpaying Forsberg type players in UFA and getting lucky in the draft are the only ways we are going to do that.  You think Yzerman is going to steal some good young prospects from other teams.  I know he is not.

 

Larkin

Raymond

Vrana

Bertuzzi

Veleno

Rasmussen

Berggren

 

Those are 7 guys ahead of Zadina on the depth chart and in importance, if Im being optomistic and generous with the last 3.

 

Until there are 5-7 more guys that are clearly better now and clearly have brighter futures with the team, what's the point of s***ting on Zadina one breath and then saying we shouldnt spend money on Forsberg in the next?  That's foolish.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Copp - Trocheck - Forsberg

[LeftWinger 4,953]

So let's start talking about our upcoming UFA/RFA players and who you think may stay or go...

RFA: Zadina, Pearson, Stephens, Juolevi, Walman, Larsson, Brattstrom, Fulcher

My opinion: 

Zadina - Yes (No brainer)

Pearson - Yes (No waiver danger)

Stephens - Yes (Very good bottom 6 C, belongs in the NHL)

Juolevi - No (Too many D prospects; not enough games played to prove anything)

Walman - Yes (Has proven he was an excellent acquisition)

The three Goalies - Yes (No waiver danger) Unless Cossa is going to make the jump to GR, then one may go. Probably Larsson since he has been on loan to Sweden forever it seems...

UFA: Staal, Dekeyser, Gagner, Griess, Pickard, Hellburg, Rowney, Hirose, Barber, Renouf, Murphy, Lashoff

My opinion:

Staal - Maybe? Has been consistent and is a great mentor.

Dekeyser - Uhhhh, no.

Gagner - Maybe, *see Staal

Griess - No. I believe with Hellburg, this means Griess is moving on.

Pickard - Yes, for depth in G for injuries (unless he is tired of being in the AHL and wants a new start somewhere)

Hellburg - Yes, especially if Gronborg is coming

Rowney - No, not enough NHL roster spots

Hirose - Yes, for depth in GR (unless he wants to test the market and try to get a NHL job.)

Barber - *see Hirose

The remaining three D doesn't really matter, but if we have any more D coming to NA this season, there may have to be some cuts.

Now trades could alter these of course, but I hope a new coaching staff can give life to some players who may be getting lost under Blashill...

When it comes to trades, it's all up in the sir since Yzerman could trade anyone at anytime, for the right price. (No I am not talking about Raymond or Seider.)

I know he said he'd like to get Larkin and Bertuzzi extended ASAP, Larkin should not be an issue, but something tells me that he'll give Bertuzzi and couple of tries, and if they get turned down, he'll be on the trading block. He would get a nice return. Other names that COULD be mentioned in trade talks (not necessarily going to happen) are Zadina, Hronek, Sundqvist, Suter, Smith and Rasmussen. I wouldn't mind seeing all of these guys stay, but they each have their own value in the NHL and wee know if Yzerman gets the right deal, he won't hesitate to pull the trigger. The Vrana deal is going to go down as the steal of the decade, even if it was One for One let alone the 1st (traded to Dallas to move up for Cossa) and 2nd we got along with him.

Edited April 20, 2022 by LeftWinger

[bIueadams 776]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

So let's start talking about our upcoming UFA/RFA players and who you think may stay or go...

RFA: Zadina, Pearson, Stephens, Juolevi, Walman, Larsson, Brattstrom, Fulcher

My opinion: 

Zadina - Yes (No brainer)

Pearson - Yes (No waiver danger)

Stephens - Yes (Very good bottom 6 C, belongs in the NHL)

Juolevi - No (Too many D prospects; not enough games played to prove anything)

Walman - Yes (Has proven he was an excellent acquisition)

The three Goalies - Yes (No waiver danger)

UFA: Staal, Dekeyser, Gagner, Griess, Pickard, Hellburg, Rowney, Hirose, Barber, Renouf, Murphy, Lashoff

My opinion:

Staal - Maybe? Has been consistent and is a great mentor.

Dekeyser - Uhhhh, no.

Gagner - Maybe, *see Staal

Griess - No. I believe with Hellburg, this means Griess is moving on.

Pickard - Yes, for depth in G for injuries (unless he is tired of being in the AHL and wants a new start somewhere)

Hellburg - Yes, especially if Gronborg is coming

Rowney - No, not enough NHL roster spots

Hirose - Yes, for depth in GR (unless he wants to test the market and try to get a NHL job.)

Barber - *see Hirose

The remaining three D doesn't really matter, but if we have any more D coming to NA this season, there may have to be some cuts.

Now trades could alter these of course, but I hope a new coaching staff can give life to some players who may be getting lost under Blashill...

RFAs: re-sign: Zadina, Pearson, Stephens, Walman
UFAs: re-sign: No one. Maybe Hellberg if he proves he can play.

I'm really not so in love with Staal and Gagner as many seem to be.

Staal can barely handle 17 minutes a night. He only plays 15 minutes a night of even strength. Walman, DK, and Oesterle are all getting deployed more than that. I think he's a nice vet team dad, but he's an extremely slow skater at this point in his career, and he gets caved in on if he's not playing extremely sheltered minutes. There's just no purpose to keeping him around. Oesterle/Walman/Edvinsson are better served in that 3rd pairing spot. And we cannot in good conscious enter next season expecting Staal to play in the top4. He's got to go.

Gagner is a 4th line forward. Again, I'm sure another nice guy, but that 4th line spot is better filled by Berggren, Soderblom, Pearson, Veleno or any UFA. If we want a vet on the 4th line than go add Reaves, Namestnikov, Aston-Reese, Acciari, Deslauriers, someone who will add more elements to this team other than "is serviceable on the PK" Gagner makes Drew Miller look like Maltby.

I guess I don't understand the attachment to this new round of washed up vets. Lets sign something more capable for those roles.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

38 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Gagner is a 4th line forward. Again, I'm sure another nice guy, but that 4th line spot is better filled by Berggren, Soderblom, Pearson, Veleno or any UFA. If we want a vet on the 4th line than go add Reaves, Namestnikov, Aston-Reese, Acciari, Deslauriers, someone who will add more elements to this team other than "is serviceable on the PK" Gagner makes Drew Miller look like Maltby.

I think Gagner's 28 points (so far) and cheap price tag would put him above trying to re-sign any of those guys you listed. Namestnikov may return, but he brings a different game than Gagner. I think Gagner is also a great mentor for the likes of Raymond, Berggren, etc... But then again, so was Bobby Ryan, and he got cut out of camp. Staal I could live with or without, but having a veteran mentor on D is even more important that up front. Dekeyser is not an option if you ask me, and Staal seems to like being here...but we are talking Yzerman, so who knows what will happen, I just don't see him moving ahead with Hronek as his most veteran D. I know we have $35M available, and either of those two would only be a 1 year deal, but looking at who's available via UFA, any upgrade may cost a pretty penny. Of course, with what we have now, we'll have to pay up on someone just to get to the cap floor. This year the floor was $60M, I am pretty sure it'll go up by $1M along with the cap, but right now we sit at $46M, so that is $15M-ish we are going to have to dole out just to be compliant. Maybe paying up for a 1 year rental like Subban or a Giordano might be in the cards as well as someone up front. None of our UFA's or RFA's will command that kind of money, even IF Zadina gets $2M-ish. So I guess if we HAVE to spend $15M, may as well overpay someone like Subban or a Malkin, for example, up front. I guess it's time to start looking at the UFA list and see who we can overpay to get their services for a year to hit that floor.  We have to look for players who want a 1 year (2 at most) deal. No longer terms. We need to save our cap space for Larkin, Bert and then in a couple more season's Raymond and Seider. Those four are going to be our highest earners, so we have to be careful what we hand out. I say 1 year deals to vets that are (worth it) 30 and older and then attempt the ol' flip to a contender for a pick trick next TDL.

Edited April 20, 2022 by LeftWinger

[bIueadams 776]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I think Gagner's 28 points (so far) and cheap price tag would put him above trying to re-sign any of those guys you listed. Namestnikov may return, but he brings a different game than Gagner. I think Gagner is also a great mentor for the likes of Raymond, Berggren, etc... But then again, so was Bobby Ryan, and he got cut out of camp. Staal I could live with or without, but having a veteran mentor on D is even more important that up front. Dekeyser is not an option if you ask me, and Staal seems to like being here...but we are talking Yzerman, so who knows what will happen, I just don't see him moving ahead with Hronek as his most veteran D. I know we have $35M available, and either of those two would only be a 1 year deal, but looking at who's available via UFA, any upgrade may cost a pretty penny. Of course, with what we have now, we'll have to pay up on someone just to get to the cap floor. This year the floor was $60M, I am pretty sure it'll go up by $1M along with the cap, but right now we sit at $46M, so that is $15M-ish we are going to have to dole out just to be compliant. Maybe paying up for a 1 year rental like Subban or a Giordano might be in the cards as well as someone up front. None of our UFA's or RFA's will command that kind of money, even IF Zadina gets $2M-ish. So I guess if we HAVE to spend $15M, may as well overpay someone like Subban or a Malkin, for example, up front. I guess it's time to start looking at the UFA list and see who we can overpay to get their services for a year to hit that floor.

You're spot on.

I don't see a scenario where we can afford to keep stop gaps like Staal and Gagner anymore. The cap floor and roster spaces will literally force us to abandon them and spend on someone else.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Vrana - Suter - Zadina ($2 mil)
Fabbri - Rasmussen - Sundqvist
Erne - Stepehens ($1 mil) - Gagner ($1 mil)

Scratched: Veleno/Smith

Oesterle - Seider
Staal ($2 mil) - Hronek
Walman ($1 mil) - Lindstrom

Ned
Hellberg ($1 mil)

That's a pretty realistic, if not generous, re-signing of our RFA's and Gagner and Staal. And I didn't even put Fabbri on LTIR as he will be. But that team right there is STILL well beneath the cap floor. So we will have to spend on new players, and for that we will need the roster spots. Meaning guys like Gagner got to go unless we want to start waiving other players and force guys like Veleno farther down the depth chart.

I just don't see a scenario where we can realistically keep Staal and Gagner on paper, unless SY is going to buy She Weber's contract or something.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 hours ago, bIueadams said:

That's quite a narrative you're telling yourself. Ras was promoted earlier than 99% of prospects, including Zadina.

Zadina should have been demoted for this season and last. He's in way over his head. Ras on the other hand is carving out a modest living.

I bet you also think Cholowski deserves more than Walman cause ya know experience. Ignore the fact that he can't play.

I am speaking to why Ras got what he did at the time of his contract and why Zadina and Ras's situations are different. I am comparing 21/22 Zadina's contract situation to Ras's 20/21 contract situation. You are the one comparing 21/22 Zadina and 21/22 Ras, which is a completely different comparable.