2022 Draft / UFA

[mackel 679]

8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

If he has 35 pts in 55 games, you trade him?

Yes and capitalize on the bit of recouped value he'd have... might get a 2nd round pick.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

13 hours ago, mackel said:

Yes and capitalize on the bit of recouped value he'd have... might get a 2nd round pick.

10-4.  Im not as down on him as you are.  Will be interesting how you evaluate Berggren and his 16 pts this season.

[mackel 679]

16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

10-4.  Im not as down on him as you are.  Will be interesting how you evaluate Berggren and his 16 pts this season.

What's Berggren got to do with Zadina being a failed top 10 pick?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

What's Berggren got to do with Zadina being a failed top 10 pick?

Whats you having to badmouth Zadina have to do with Zadina?

[redw1ngs 149]

Zadina wont ever be the top winger ppl were expecting when drafted but hes still effective mid6 winger. Zadina is what he is regardless where he was drafted. Its not like hes a overpaid player on a bad contract. Just hasnt met draft expectations yet that can be said for lotsa 22yo players. Hes consistently produced at a 25-35pt pace. If he has another season in that range he settles in as a good 3w and gets paid as such. 

On 8/15/2022 at 1:13 AM, Jonas Mahonas said:

If he has 35 pts in 55 games, you trade him?

Thats a 52pt pace. If he has a season like this maybe hes starting to turn the corner and look like a possible 2w. No you dont trade that unless its for a big return.

On 8/15/2022 at 9:49 AM, mackel said:

Yes and capitalize on the bit of recouped value he'd have... might get a 2nd round pick.

Lets not pretend teams wouldnt be lining up to acquire a former 6oa pick at that production regardless what you think of him now. If Zad puts up 35pts in 55gp your probly looking at a late 1st+. At that point Id be happy with keeping him or getting that sort of return. Hes far from a lost cause yet lets see how he does under a new coach.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Zadina wont ever be the top winger ppl were expecting when drafted but hes still effective mid6 winger. Zadina is what he is regardless where he was drafted. Its not like hes a overpaid player on a bad contract. Just hasnt met draft expectations yet that can be said for lotsa 22yo players. Hes consistently produced at a 25-35pt pace. If he has another season in that range he settles in as a good 3w and gets paid as such. 

Thats a 52pt pace. If he has a season like this maybe hes starting to turn the corner and look like a possible 2w. No you dont trade that unless its for a big return.

Lets not pretend teams wouldnt be lining up to acquire a former 6oa pick at that production regardless what you think of him now. If Zad puts up 35pts in 55gp your probly looking at a late 1st+. At that point Id be happy with keeping him or getting that sort of return. Hes far from a lost cause yet lets see how he does under a new coach.

One thing you say here is something a lot of LGW posters fail to grasp = pay.  Seems like a lot of people dont understand that we cant have 6.5 mil per season wingers on EVERY line.  We need players that make 1.5-2.5 million in the bottom 6 that can play top 6 when injuries hit.  And we need guys that are happy to do that.  So far, Zadina hasnt put any pressure on anyone to make him a better player other than hisself.  I see absolutely zero reason to get rid of a guy like that unless there are better options.  With Soderblom, Niederbach, Berggren, and Mazur coming on, we could have better options soon.

[mackel 679]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

One thing you say here is something a lot of LGW posters fail to grasp = pay.  Seems like a lot of people dont understand that we cant have 6.5 mil per season wingers on EVERY line.  We need players that make 1.5-2.5 million in the bottom 6 that can play top 6 when injuries hit.  And we need guys that are happy to do that.  So far, Zadina hasnt put any pressure on anyone to make him a better player other than hisself.  I see absolutely zero reason to get rid of a guy like that unless there are better options.  With Soderblom, Niederbach, Berggren, and Mazur coming on, we could have better options soon.

So we want a teams worth of scrubs?

4 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Zadina wont ever be the top winger ppl were expecting when drafted but hes still effective mid6 winger. Zadina is what he is regardless where he was drafted. Its not like hes a overpaid player on a bad contract. Just hasnt met draft expectations yet that can be said for lotsa 22yo players. Hes consistently produced at a 25-35pt pace. If he has another season in that range he settles in as a good 3w and gets paid as such. 

Thats a 52pt pace. If he has a season like this maybe hes starting to turn the corner and look like a possible 2w. No you dont trade that unless its for a big return.

Lets not pretend teams wouldnt be lining up to acquire a former 6oa pick at that production regardless what you think of him now. If Zad puts up 35pts in 55gp your probly looking at a late 1st+. At that point Id be happy with keeping him or getting that sort of return. Hes far from a lost cause yet lets see how he does under a new coach.

That might be the only scenario where you could trade him... he's go no value right now.  Better players can be signed for or near league minimum in FA.

Edited August 16, 2022 by mackel

[redw1ngs 149]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

So we want a teams worth of scrubs?

That might be the only scenario where you could trade him... he's go no value right now.  Better players can be signed for or near league minimum in FA.

Theres not a single <23yo FA that can be signed with Zadinas draft pedigree. Like it or not that matters to NHL gms. Imo most gms in the league would give up a 2nd or equivalent now and much more if he pops off this season. Give him 1 more season under a new coach to see what he can do.

[town123 174]

I really wonder what Kenny would give up.    Don't tell me SY and Holland haven't at least broached the subject.

 

Time for a good old fashioned hoodwinking trade Stevie Y.

[mackel 679]

3 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Theres not a single <23yo FA that can be signed with Zadinas draft pedigree. Like it or not that matters to NHL gms. Imo most gms in the league would give up a 2nd or equivalent now and much more if he pops off this season. Give him 1 more season under a new coach to see what he can do.

Never mentioned age... if the FA is 32 who cares... I'm talking in season performance.  He's a replacement level player no matter his age.

44 minutes ago, town123 said:

I really wonder what Kenny would give up.    Don't tell me SY and Holland haven't at least broached the subject.

 

Time for a good old fashioned hoodwinking trade Stevie Y.

Not even Holland would double down on that mistake. 

[redw1ngs 149]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

Never mentioned age... if the FA is 32 who cares... I'm talking in season performance.  He's a replacement level player no matter his age.

Not even Holland would double down on that mistake. 

Clearly you dont but unfortunate to your argument gms do. Age is a huge factor when trading for or signing players.

[mackel 679]

14 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Clearly you dont but unfortunate to your argument gms do. Age is a huge factor when trading for or signing players.

Only if the player is a building block... an offensively challenged offensive player with worse than average defense is a transient bottom 6 player regardless of age. 

[redw1ngs 149]

18 minutes ago, mackel said:

Only if the player is a building block... an offensively challenged offensive player with worse than average defense is a transient bottom 6 player regardless of age. 

Whatever you say. No gm would give up assets for a 22yo former 6oa 25-35pt winger theyd obv rather the 32yo winger who is slightly more productive.

Zadina is a fine 3w that could become a 2w if Lalonde lits a fire under his ass. Either way SY will pay him his worth or ship him out for a reasonable return. We dont have to worry about him being overpaid like we would of under KH.

[mackel 679]

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Whatever you say. No gm would give up assets for a 22yo former 6oa 25-35pt winger theyd obv rather the 32yo winger who is slightly more productive.

Zadina is a fine 3w that could become a 2w if Lalonde lits a fire under his ass. Either way SY will pay him his worth or ship him out for a reasonable return. We dont have to worry about him being overpaid like we would of under KH.

What you don't seem to realize is that Zadina is bad, he's not able to play the game at a top 6 level.  What's Lalonde going to do that Blashill didn't?  Under Blash there was more opportunity for a scrub like Zadina up the lineup.  Now with the additions he's at best on the 3rd line with limited/no pp time.

[redw1ngs 149]

50 minutes ago, mackel said:

What you don't seem to realize is that Zadina is bad, he's not able to play the game at a top 6 level.  What's Lalonde going to do that Blashill didn't?  Under Blash there was more opportunity for a scrub like Zadina up the lineup.  Now with the additions he's at best on the 3rd line with limited/no pp time.

Im not sure where you get this idea that Zadina is bad. Hes a NHL player. Who cares if he never reaches top6 level hell never get paid like it either. 

[mackel 679]

10 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Im not sure where you get this idea that Zadina is bad. Hes a NHL player. Who cares if he never reaches top6 level hell never get paid like it either. 

He's a scrub... "insert name here" type guy.  100% replaceable 100% unremarkable. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Aren't we all just scrubs with varying degrees of replacability?

[redw1ngs 149]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

He's a scrub... "insert name here" type guy.  100% replaceable 100% unremarkable. 

Did anyone say Zadina is anything special/remarkable/irreplaceable? 

I dont know what your point or agenda is but it sounds like you just wanna replace Zadina for the sake of it regardless how he performs or how little he makes.

[kipwinger 8,520]

25 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Did anyone say Zadina is anything special/remarkable/irreplaceable? 

I dont know what your point or agenda is but it sounds like you just wanna replace Zadina for the sake of it regardless how he performs or how little he makes.

I do. He's bad, not getting better, not likely to get more opportunity than he had a year ago, and eating up a roster spot. I'd rather have Berggren/Fabbri/Sodorblom in that spot. Our farm system is really deep. We are no longer in a position where roster spots are gifted to scrubs just because nobody else wants to play for us and we have no talented prospects.

I don't see any rationale for keeping a loser in your middle six just because he's cheap. I also don't think you're right that GMs value guys like him because they're young and have upside. Look at all the players who are better than Zadina who went unqualified the last couple offseasons?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I do. He's bad,

 

no, he's not.

 

not getting better,

 

He literally is getting better.

 

not likely to get more opportunity than he had a year ago,

 

this is not his decision.

 

and eating up a roster spot.

 

23 guys do this.  Zadina is one of our 12 best forwards AT THE MOMENT.

 

I'd rather have Berggren/Fabbri/Sodorblom in that spot.

 

So you could whip a new guy?

 

Our farm system is really deep.

 

No it isnt.

 

We are no longer in a position where roster spots are gifted to scrubs just because nobody else wants to play for us and we have no talented prospects.

False statement.  Our forward prospect pool is so weak/underdeveloped/injured that Steve Yzerman needed to sign 3 UFAs to field an NHL caliber lineup.

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I don't see any rationale for keeping a loser in your middle six just because he's cheap.

 

 Good thing you dont manage money for a living.

 

I also don't think you're right that GMs value guys like him because they're young and have upside.

 

Listen to yourself!!!  Tat statement is pure R-Slur'ed.

 

Look at all the players who are better than Zadina who went unqualified the last couple offseasons?

Where?  Cant find them.

[mackel 679]

4 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Did anyone say Zadina is anything special/remarkable/irreplaceable? 

I dont know what your point or agenda is but it sounds like you just wanna replace Zadina for the sake of it regardless how he performs or how little he makes.

I'm saying that he is currently a worthless asset.  If he has some sort or outlier season and gains any trade value... capitalize on it before he returns to the mean of mediocrity that defines his existence as a bust.

Edited August 17, 2022 by mackel

[redw1ngs 149]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I do. He's bad, not getting better, not likely to get more opportunity than he had a year ago, and eating up a roster spot. I'd rather have Berggren/Fabbri/Sodorblom in that spot. Our farm system is really deep. We are no longer in a position where roster spots are gifted to scrubs just because nobody else wants to play for us and we have no talented prospects.

I don't see any rationale for keeping a loser in your middle six just because he's cheap. I also don't think you're right that GMs value guys like him because they're young and have upside. Look at all the players who are better than Zadina who went unqualified the last couple offseasons?

If Berggren or Soderblom earn a spot great but I still dont think either take a spot from Zadina and even if they do neither are much if at all an upgrade this season imo. There worse players on this roster but Zadina is the whipping boy because he was a 6oa pick.

Thinking Zadina is a loser is a loser mentality imo. Poor asset management and Im sure SY isnt about that. Noone is saying keep Zadina regardless how he plays but he deserves a shot under the new coach imo.

2 hours ago, mackel said:

I'm saying that he is currently a worthless asset.  If he has some sort or outlier season and gains any trade value... capitalize on it before he returns to the mean of mediocrity that defines his existence as a bust.

Worthless asset is a stretch. Your bias is showing.

[mackel 679]

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

If Berggren or Soderblom earn a spot great but I still dont think either take a spot from Zadina and even if they do neither are much if at all an upgrade this season imo. There worse players on this roster but Zadina is the whipping boy because he was a 6oa pick.

Thinking Zadina is a loser is a loser mentality imo. Poor asset management and Im sure SY isnt about that. Noone is saying keep Zadina regardless how he plays but he deserves a shot under the new coach imo.

Worthless asset is a stretch. Your bias is showing.

Kip said it best... Chicago has not qualified atleast 2 better players the last 2 years...  Suter and Kubalik.  If you were to shop Zadina as the primary asset in a trade you're getting a 3rd round pick tops.  It's more likely to be a 4th.

His draft slot does matter... he's a borderline NHL player taken 6OA.  unless he's sheltered in the top 6 with someone to do the heavy lifting he's useless and barely better than useless when he's been given top 6 and PP minutes.

Edited August 17, 2022 by mackel

[redw1ngs 149]

26 minutes ago, mackel said:

Kip said it best... Chicago has not qualified atleast 2 better players the last 2 years...  Suter and Kubalik.  If you were to shop Zadina as the primary asset in a trade you're getting a 3rd round pick tops.  It's more likely to be a 4th.

His draft slot does matter... he's a borderline NHL player taken 6OA.  unless he's sheltered in the top 6 with someone to do the heavy lifting he's useless and barely better than useless when he's been given top 6 and PP minutes.

Bad asset management by another gm doesnt mean SY should mismanage his assets. Both were then signed by SY. Both are better but older and making more them what Zadina will make. All 3 will likely play on a line together Suter making over 3m Kub making just under 3m and Zadina making under 2m.

Zadina would fetch more then a 3/4 round pick imo but lets say thats all he gets. Wtf would you want to get rid of him then unless your suggesting not even sign him which is even worse.

Give the kid another look this season and if he doesnt improve ship his ass out.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

False statement.  Our forward prospect pool is so weak/underdeveloped/injured that Steve Yzerman needed to sign 3 UFAs to field an NHL caliber lineup.

Where?  Cant find them.

SY signed 3 F because the F prospect pool is likely not yet ready for full time NHL top 6/middle 6 duties. That doesn't make those players a weak pool.

Also, those 3 F possess assets not yet present in the prospect pool.

David Perron: RH, gritty top 6 RW with veteran leadership. No one like that in the prospect pool.

Andrew Copp was brought in to fill the 2C position. The closest F prospects to the NHL are all wingers. Kasper is still a couple years away.

Dominik Kubalik wasnt signed because there aren't any prospects capable of 3rd line duties very soon. He was signed because he is a low risk reclamation project that could pay off big.

None of these signings really had anything to do with the quality of the prospect pool. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie