2022 Draft / UFA

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

SY signed 3 F because the F prospect pool is likely not yet ready for full time NHL top 6/middle 6 duties. That doesn't make those players a weak pool.

Also, those 3 F possess assets not yet present in the prospect pool.

David Perron: RH, gritty top 6 RW with veteran leadership. No one like that in the prospect pool.

Andrew Copp was brought in to fill the 2C position. The closest F prospects to the NHL are all wingers. Kasper is still a couple years away.

Dominik Kubalik wasnt signed because there aren't any prospects capable of 3rd line duties very soon. He was signed because he is a low risk reclamation project that could pay off big.

None of these signings really had anything to do with the quality of the prospect pool. 

Are people not reading what they are writing?  This is so bizarre.

[marcaractac 3,963]

It's highly entertaining that the same person who says Cossa sucks is such a shill for Zadina. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Are people not reading what they are writing?  This is so bizarre.

In other words: Neo is correct.

[redw1ngs 149]

3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

It's highly entertaining that the same person who says Cossa sucks is such a shill for Zadina. 

Tbh I dont have high expectations for Zadina I just dont agree with giving up on him at this point in his carrer. Its getting close tho. Worst case hes a 3w best case hes a 2w. Atp I think hes closer to the lower end of that but if he is hell be paid like it. No worries of overpay from SY.

Ive expressed how highly I view Soderblom but Im not sure Berggren or broken down Fabbri are better then Zadina at this point.

As for Cossa ya he sucks balls shoulda drafted Wallstedt.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

In other words: Neo is correct.

He repeated what I said!

3 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Tbh I dont have high expectations for Zadina I just dont agree with giving up on him at this point in his carrer. Its getting close tho. Worst case hes a 3w best case hes a 2w. Atp I think hes closer to the lower end of that but if he is hell be paid like it. No worries of overpay from SY.

Ive expressed how highly I view Soderblom but Im not sure Berggren or broken down Fabbri are better then Zadina at this point.

As for Cossa ya he sucks balls shoulda drafted Wallstedt.

Yes.  

 

Berggren might bust harder than Zadina.  Dont think so, but he isnt getting top 6 minutes this year.  I dont expect more than 10 pts outta him.

 

Soderblom - hasnt played on NA surface yet.  

 

Niederbach - I think this guy is going to be the best besides Kasper.

 

Mazur - not even pro yet.

[mackel 681]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:30 PM, redw1ngs said:

Bad asset management by another gm doesnt mean SY should mismanage his assets. Both were then signed by SY. Both are better but older and making more them what Zadina will make. All 3 will likely play on a line together Suter making over 3m Kub making just under 3m and Zadina making under 2m.

Zadina would fetch more then a 3/4 round pick imo but lets say thats all he gets. Wtf would you want to get rid of him then unless your suggesting not even sign him which is even worse.

Give the kid another look this season and if he doesnt improve ship his ass out.

Yes I'd trade him, if he showed any signs of improvement... I'd capitalize and trade him before he regressed back to being his mediocre self.

[kipwinger 8,522]

I’m confused by the “sure he’s not great but he’s cheap, re-sign him” crowd. You know who projects as a 3W and is cheaper? Berggren. Sodorblom. Andreasson. If Zadina’s only value is that he’s cheap, there are cheaper players who potentially could suck just as much no? Or are we pretending he’s cheap AND kinda good now? 
 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

39 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I’m confused by the “sure he’s not great but he’s cheap, re-sign him” crowd. You know who projects as a 3W and is cheaper? Berggren. Sodorblom. Andreasson. If Zadina’s only value is that he’s cheap, there are cheaper players who potentially could suck just as much no? Or are we pretending he’s cheap AND kinda good now? 
 

 

the only people pretending are those who think we have a 50-60 pt winger in our system past our top 6.  We dont.

[redw1ngs 149]

9 hours ago, mackel said:

Yes I'd trade him, if he showed any signs of improvement... I'd capitalize and trade him before he regressed back to being his mediocre self.

Id be good with this the only thing we shouldnt be doing imo is let him walk or trade him for peanuts now. He needs 1 more season under Lalonde imo.

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I’m confused by the “sure he’s not great but he’s cheap, re-sign him” crowd. You know who projects as a 3W and is cheaper? Berggren. Sodorblom. Andreasson. If Zadina’s only value is that he’s cheap, there are cheaper players who potentially could suck just as much no? Or are we pretending he’s cheap AND kinda good now? 
 

 

great is an odd word choice. Noone is expecting him to be great atp. more like sure he hasnt been good enough but hes still young enough that he should continue to improve. Maybe he doesnt but imo he deserves another chance under a new coahc. What do you think SY could get for Zadina right now?

Im confused by why your so anxious to get rid of him only to replace him by a player that probly isnt any better. Zadina played in the AHL 2yrs ago and put up similar numbers as Berggren last season and you think hes gonna step into the NHL and be better right off the hop? I wouldnt hold my breath. Soderblom and Andreasson havent played a single game in na and you think there gonna step into the NHL and put up 40pts? Not gonna happen.

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Id be good with this the only thing we shouldnt be doing imo is let him walk or trade him for peanuts now. He needs 1 more season under Lalonde imo.

great is an odd word choice. Noone is expecting him to be great atp. more like sure he hasnt been good enough but hes still young enough that he should continue to improve. Maybe he doesnt but imo he deserves another chance under a new coahc. What do you think SY could get for Zadina right now?

Im confused by why your so anxious to get rid of him only to replace him by a player that probly isnt any better. Zadina played in the AHL 2yrs ago and put up similar numbers as Berggren last season and you think hes gonna step into the NHL and be better right off the hop? I wouldnt hold my breath. Soderblom and Andreasson havent played a single game in na and you think there gonna step into the NHL and put up 40pts? Not gonna happen.

Your entire rationale for keeping him is that he's cheap and not absolutely terrible. I'm just saying there are other player who could occupy that roster spot who are cheaper and also probably not absolutely terrible.

Lol @ Zadina scoring 40 points. He won't sniff the top six this year and will get limited powerplay time. We all saw how bad he sucked with Suter and Fabbri last year but you're expecting him to score MORE with Suter and Kubalik in FEWER minutes? Not likely.

[kipwinger 8,522]

9 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

the only people pretending are those who think we have a 50-60 pt winger in our system past our top 6.  We dont.

Agreed. So basically you're saying "Zadina's cheap, can fill the 3W spot, and still has some upside"? I'm saying Berggren is CHEAPER, can fill the 3W spot, and has upside. So does Sodorblom. Fabbri isn't cheap, but he's under contract nonetheless and has show he can outproduce Zadina after two knees surgeries. Why not after three?

We don't have PERFECT options. But we have options that are just as good. So I have to wonder why Zadina is everyone's pet project yet again? I've never seen a fan base over-inflate a bad player so egregiously. He got outscored by Suter, Fabbri, Ras, Namestnikov, Hronek, and Gagner last year despite getting more favorable usage than ANY of those guys. He SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS.

Edit: Noted offensive juggernaut Oskar Sundqvist had a significantly higher points per gave average than Zadina too, just for those keeping track of how badly that dude blows.

Edited August 19, 2022 by kipwinger

[redw1ngs 149]

36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Your entire rationale for keeping him is that he's cheap and not absolutely terrible. I'm just saying there are other player who could occupy that roster spot who are cheaper and also probably not absolutely terrible.

Lol @ Zadina scoring 40 points. He won't sniff the top six this year and will get limited powerplay time. We all saw how bad he sucked with Suter and Fabbri last year but you're expecting him to score MORE with Suter and Kubalik in FEWER minutes? Not likely.

No my entire rationale is that hes been good and still has room to grow. What do you suggest SY should do with Zadina let him walk? Terrible asset management. Theres no gaurantee any of Berggren Soderblom Andreasson would be as good as Zadina let alone better.

Never said anything about Zadina scoring 40pts I said none of the players you mentioned as replacements would put up 40pts. Zadinas produced at a 30-35pt pace if your gonna let him walk you better know theres significant upgrade coming in to replace him. You dont know that with any of the players your talking about.

37 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

We don't have PERFECT options. But we have options that are just as good. So I have to wonder why Zadina is everyone's pet project yet again? I've never seen a fan base over-inflate a bad player so egregiously. 

Whos pet project? Whos overinflating him?

Only thing I see pro-Zadina ppl saying is hes nearing the end of his leash but should get 1 more chance. If he fails get rid of him.

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 minute ago, redw1ngs said:

No my entire rationale is that hes been good and still has room to grow. What do you suggest SY should do with Zadina let him walk? Terrible asset management. Theres no gaurantee any of Berggren Soderblom Andreasson would be as good as Zadina let alone better.

Never said anything about Zadina scoring 40pts I said none of the players you mentioned as replacements would put up 40pts. Zadinas produced at a 30-35pt pace if your gonna let him walk you better know theres significant upgrade coming in to replace him. You dont know that with any of the players your talking about.

Whos pet project? Whos overinflating him?

Only thing I see pro-Zadina ppl saying is hes nearing the end of his leash but should get 1 more chance. If he fails get rid of him.

Why should he get "one more chance"? What has he done to earn anything? How's he been good? So far his career trajectory is closer to Tomas Jurco than it is to a legit top six forward.

He's been given AMPLE chances to succeed. Certainly more than he'll get now that we have a competitive roster. And you act like he's the ONLY asset we need to manage. There are other, more important, things for this team to do than move heaven and earth to jumpstart a pud. Michael Rasmuseen, for instance, had more goals, points, and primary assists than Zadina despite playing fewer (and harder) minutes. Yet I don't see the Zadina crowd clamboring for Ras to get more of Zadina's opportinities? Why?

Here's what I'd do with him. Offer him a million dollars on a one year deal. Let him know he's competing for a roster spot in training camp. And that includes fourth line duties since he can't score and is supposedly "good" defensively. If he gets outplayed by 8 other wingers, wave him. If he gets outplayed by 6 other wingers, put him on the fourth line until he actually earns something. But what I absolutely would not do is spend a single additional second trying to drag another Holland Era loser to productivity at the expense of the team.

[redw1ngs 149]

36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Why should he get "one more chance"? What has he done to earn anything? How's he been good? So far his career trajectory is closer to Tomas Jurco than it is to a legit top six forward.

He's been given AMPLE chances to succeed. Certainly more than he'll get now that we have a competitive roster. And you act like he's the ONLY asset we need to manage. There are other, more important, things for this team to do than move heaven and earth to jumpstart a pud. Michael Rasmuseen, for instance, had more goals, points, and primary assists than Zadina despite playing fewer (and harder) minutes. Yet I don't see the Zadina crowd clamboring for Ras to get more of Zadina's opportinities? Why?

Here's what I'd do with him. Offer him a million dollars on a one year deal. Let him know he's competing for a roster spot in training camp. And that includes fourth line duties since he can't score and is supposedly "good" defensively. If he gets outplayed by 8 other wingers, wave him. If he gets outplayed by 6 other wingers, put him on the fourth line until he actually earns something. But what I absolutely would not do is spend a single additional second trying to drag another Holland Era loser to productivity at the expense of the team.

Asks why he should get one more chance. Proceeds to say that you would give him once more chance lol. 1yr deal at $1m sounds good to me tho I think hell get more.

I never said he should be gifted opportunity he should and imo will earn that. He should have to earn his spot in the lineup no different then any other player on the team especially true with a new coach. Its you saying we should get rid of him to gift opportunity to other less deserving players.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Why should he get "one more chance"?

 

#6oa, 2 seasons nhl experience, he's 23

 

What has he done to earn anything?

 

What he's been asked and told to do.

 

How's he been good?

 

He made it to the NHL faster than all our draft picks but Raymond.

 

So far his career trajectory is closer to Tomas Jurco than it is to a legit top six forward.

False.  TBD still.

Quote

He's been given AMPLE chances to succeed.

 

So have you.  You're still not making a convincing argument.

 

Certainly more than he'll get now that we have a competitive roster.

 

Agreed, here.

 

And you act like he's the ONLY asset we need to manage.

 

He's our most developed.

 

There are other, more important, things for this team to do than move heaven and earth to jumpstart a pud.

 

You having Zadina under your microscope doesnt mean the organization does.

 

Michael Rasmuseen, for instance, had more goals, points, and primary assists than Zadina despite playing fewer (and harder) minutes. Yet I don't see the Zadina crowd clamboring for Ras to get more of Zadina's opportinities? Why?

Youre creating a false hypithetical here.  Zadina played some top 6 last year.  So did Ras.  Both players are valuable to the Wings in that they have both been coachef to be dependable anywhere in the lineup.  Your teammate competition thing isnt as big a thing to the organization.

Quote

Here's what I'd do with him. Offer him a million dollars on a one year deal.

 

Not enough.  Time served is a thing in the NHL.

 

Let him know he's competing for a roster spot in training camp. And that includes fourth line duties since he can't score and is supposedly "good" defensively.

 

This is always unsaid within the organization.  The media will write it.

 

If he gets outplayed by 8 other wingers, wave him.

 

Waiving him not gonna happen.

 

If he gets outplayed by 6 other wingers, put him on the fourth line until he actually earns something.

 

Fair enough.

 

But what I absolutely would not do is spend a single additional second trying to drag another Holland Era loser to productivity at the expense of the team.

We should have drafted Hughes, Bouchard, or Dobson in retrospect.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Asks why he should get one more chance. Proceeds to say that you would give him once more chance lol. 1yr deal at $1m sounds good to me tho I think hell get more.

I never said he should be gifted opportunity he should and imo will earn that. He should have to earn his spot in the lineup no different then any other player on the team especially true with a new coach. Its you saying we should get rid of him to gift opportunity to other less deserving players.

Not true at all. I was suggesting that if your most compelling argument in favor of Zadina is "he's cheap" then there are other cheap options on entry level contracts. If you're arguing that he actually played well and therefore deserves opportunity I'd counter with the fact that based on their performances last year ALL of Raymond, Bertuzzi, Vrana, Perron, Kubalik, Fabbri, Rasmussen, and Sundqvist are more deserving of ice time than Zadina. So I guess I'll agree that right now you can pencil him onto your 4th line. Except that he's bad defensively and on special teams so he's not really a fit there (and everyone would complain that it's setting him up for failure). So where do you put the "scorer who doesn't score"? My guess is you want him playing higher in the lineup and on special teams yeah? Again, what exactly did he ever do to earn those premium minutes?

This Zadina thing reminds me so much of Teemu Pulkkinen. Prolific junior scorer who couldn't score in the NHL because he sucked, but everyone was POSITIVE that is was the coach/icetime/usage/linemates etc. So we hung onto him forever, until the whole world could see he sucked, and never got a single thing for all that "asset management".

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Not true at all. I was suggesting that if your most compelling argument in favor of Zadina is "he's cheap" then there are other cheap options on entry level contracts. If you're arguing that he actually played well and therefore deserves opportunity I'd counter with the fact that based on their performances last year ALL of Raymond, Bertuzzi, Vrana, Perron, Kubalik, Fabbri, Rasmussen, and Sundqvist are more deserving of ice time than Zadina. So I guess I'll agree that right now you can pencil him onto your 4th line. Except that he's bad defensively and on special teams so he's not really a fit there (and everyone would complain that it's setting him up for failure). So where do you put the "scorer who doesn't score"? My guess is you want him playing higher in the lineup and on special teams yeah? Again, what exactly did he ever do to earn those premium minutes?

This Zadina thing reminds me so much of Teemu Pulkkinen. Prolific junior scorer who couldn't score in the NHL because he sucked, but everyone was POSITIVE that is was the coach/icetime/usage/linemates etc. So we hung onto him forever, until the whole world could see he sucked, and never got a single thing for all that "asset management".

Teemu Pulkkinen had ONE thing going for him.  A 95 MPH slap shot.  Zadina brings a lot more to the table than that.  You know this.

[redw1ngs 149]

17 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Not true at all. I was suggesting that if your most compelling argument in favor of Zadina is "he's cheap" then there are other cheap options on entry level contracts. If you're arguing that he actually played well and therefore deserves opportunity I'd counter with the fact that based on their performances last year ALL of Raymond, Bertuzzi, Vrana, Perron, Kubalik, Fabbri, Rasmussen, and Sundqvist are more deserving of ice time than Zadina. So I guess I'll agree that right now you can pencil him onto your 4th line. Except that he's bad defensively and on special teams so he's not really a fit there (and everyone would complain that it's setting him up for failure). So where do you put the "scorer who doesn't score"? My guess is you want him playing higher in the lineup and on special teams yeah? Again, what exactly did he ever do to earn those premium minutes?

This Zadina thing reminds me so much of Teemu Pulkkinen. Prolific junior scorer who couldn't score in the NHL because he sucked, but everyone was POSITIVE that is was the coach/icetime/usage/linemates etc. So we hung onto him forever, until the whole world could see he sucked, and never got a single thing for all that "asset management".

You keep trying to paint a picture that Zadinas only asset is being cheap. Anyone that has paid any attention knows thats not true. Hes done enough early in his career to warrant more time.

Lol at the Pulkinen comp 22pts in 83gp. Zadina has triple pts in double gp at an age before Pulk played his first game. 

Imo Zadina should start on L3 with Suter and Kub and pp2. Fabbris injured Ras should be 4c with Sundqvist imo.

Btw Ras is a yr ahead of Zadina has less pts in more gp just had his breakout season and still scored at a lower pts/gp then Zadinas avg.

[kipwinger 8,522]

16 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Teemu Pulkkinen had ONE thing going for him.  A 95 MPH slap shot.  Zadina brings a lot more to the table than that.  You know this.

Like what?

4 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

You keep trying to paint a picture that Zadinas only asset is being cheap. Anyone that has paid any attention knows thats not true. Hes done enough early in his career to warrant more time.

Lol at the Pulkinen comp 22pts in 83gp. Zadina has triple pts in double gp at an age before Pulk played his first game. 

Imo Zadina should start on L3 with Suter and Kub and pp2. Fabbris injured Ras should be 4c with Sundqvist imo.

Btw Ras is a yr ahead of Zadina has less pts in more gp just had his breakout season and still scored at a lower pts/gp then Zadinas avg.

Btw Ras is doing all that in fewer minutes, more defensive situations, and worse line mates. Zadinas does less while being force fed premium minutes. 
 

 

[redw1ngs 149]

8 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Btw Ras is doing all that in fewer minutes, more defensive situations, and worse line mates. Zadinas does less while being force fed premium minutes. 
 

Rasmusen will continue to get less minutes more defensive situations and worse linemates because hes better defensively. Zadina will continue to get more minutes more offensive situations and better linemates because hes better offensively.

The bold is false.

[mackel 681]

@kipwinger just stop dude... in 2 years when this POS is playing in the Czech extraliga these slappys will be saying he's still under 30 and this is part of his development or some such delusional nonsense.   

Those of us who knew the pick was bad on draft night have been proved right every time the guy hits the ice... the worst part is if he's not producing offense he has nothing else to contribute. 

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Rasmusen will continue to get less minutes more defensive situations and worse linemates because hes better defensively. Zadina will continue to get more minutes more offensive situations and better linemates because hes better offensively.

The bold is false. <---  this is now true!

Yet he was out produced  by Ras in both points and goals...  albeit Ras played 6 more games... that musssst be the difference lol

[redw1ngs 149]

9 hours ago, mackel said:

 Yet he was out produced  by Ras in both points and goals...  albeit Ras played 6 more games... that musssst be the difference lol

Zadina has more pts in less gp and a year behind in his development. Ras had his breakout this past season. Zadina could breakout this season like Ras and alot other 23yo players. Maybe he ends up overseas in a year or 2 but lets wait and see. Before you say hes not gonna have a breakout season getting less opportunity youd be right but noone knows what opportunity players are gonna get under the new coach and noone can predict injuries. Zadina probly starts in the bottom6 but could be a injury or 2 away from top6.

[mackel 681]

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Zadina has more pts in less gp and a year behind in his development. Ras had his breakout this past season. Zadina could breakout this season like Ras and alot other 23yo players. Maybe he ends up overseas in a year or 2 but lets wait and see. Before you say hes not gonna have a breakout season getting less opportunity youd be right but noone knows what opportunity players are gonna get under the new coach and noone can predict injuries. Zadina probly starts in the bottom6 but could be a injury or 2 away from top6.

Yup.  And thats why having a guy like Zadina is nice for the team.  Willing to grind out bottom 6 minutes, and fills in top 6 minutes when needed.  Is he the only guy on our team that can do that?  Pretty much Zadina, Veleno, and Ras right now.  They moved Erne up last year for 2 games and he was completely lost.  They moved Smith up for a game - disaster.  Can Berggren, Solderblom, and Kasper step in and perfrorm better than Zadina?  Id say no to Berggren and Solderblom, and it looks like Kasper wont be in the NHL until 24-25, maybe 23-24.  So get used to Zadina for this upcoming season.

[marcaractac 3,963]

18 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yup.  And thats why having a guy like Zadina is nice for the team.  Willing to grind out bottom 6 minutes, and fills in top 6 minutes when needed.  Is he the only guy on our team that can do that?  Pretty much Zadina, Veleno, and Ras right now.  They moved Erne up last year for 2 games and he was completely lost.  They moved Smith up for a game - disaster.  Can Berggren, Solderblom, and Kasper step in and perfrorm better than Zadina?  Id say no to Berggren and Solderblom, and it looks like Kasper wont be in the NHL until 24-25, maybe 23-24.  So get used to Zadina for this upcoming season.

Yes, I will get used to regular healthy scratch, Filip Zadina.