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The 91 of Ryans

New New Prospects Thread

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3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I've never advocated dumping him. See my posts above. Also, he played almost ALL of last season with Larkin (until he got injured) because Bertuzzi was hurt. Even after Larkin's injury (and Vrana's acquisition) Zadina was still on the top line. I don't mind debating this with you, but it's not helping either of us if we don't get basic facts straight.

Last year was an abomination.  I couldnt even watch.  Top line minutes last year on the wings were worse than 3rd line minutes on the oilers.  This season is a goid measuring stick for Zadina.  Lets see where he pans out at the end.

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38 minutes ago, town123 said:

With Vancouver wetting the bed so far, I wonder if Pettersson could be had.   He's had a slow start to the season and even though they don't have a cap issue at the moment maybe they panic?    Not sure of the cost, but having another Larkin 2C would be great.

He just signed a 3 year contract extension at a pretty reasonable cap hit. He'd cost a fortune to acquire at this point.

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Svechnikov .72

Kotkaniemi .35

Tkachuk .62

Hayton .22

Zadina .42

Kravtsov .20

Wahlstrom .39

 

The rest of the 2018 draft hasnt done squat.  So right now, Tkachuck and Svechnikov are forwards that have had more success than Zadina solely based on the scoresheet.  This discussion should end now, as the only argument anyone has made are his stats.

LGWZLovers - He passes the eyeball test and is still young.

LGWZHaters - He's supposed to score, and he doesnt.

LGWZL - He's the highest scorer in his draft besides those drafted before him.

LGWZH - but but but bu but ...

 

Maybe we can call Zadina "The Herlihy Boy".

Sandler: Let me play and score points.

Farley: "For the love of GOD.  Let the boy scorrrrrre."

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Svechnikov .72

Kotkaniemi .35

Tkachuk .62

Hayton .22

Zadina .42

Kravtsov .20

Wahlstrom .39

 

The rest of the 2018 draft hasnt done squat.  So right now, Tkachuck and Svechnikov are forwards that have had more success than Zadina solely based on the scoresheet.  This discussion should end now, as the only argument anyone has made are his stats.

LGWZLovers - He passes the eyeball test and is still young.

LGWZHaters - He's supposed to score, and he doesnt.

LGWZL - He's the highest scorer in his draft besides those drafted before him.

LGWZH - but but but bu but ...

 

Maybe we can call Zadina "The Herlihy Boy".

Sandler: Let me play and score points.

Farley: "For the love of GOD.  Let the boy scorrrrrre."

 

 

 

So he scores no less than a bunch of other guys who barely score? Glowing endorsement.

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2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I can't really disagree with this. 

I just think it's funny when someone says they'd like to see Fabbri (currently in his final hockey form)  re-signed because he used to play beer pong with Bertuzzi in Guelph but Zadina (same stats - still developing) should be skewered. 

I'm back and forth on this. I really do like Fabbri as a player. And I like that Yzerman did some cultural building by bringing in Suter from Guelph as well.

But he's also our big trade chip this year and I have my eye on someone like Ondrej Palat to replace him in the offseason.

I think at some point you have to stop trading pieces away for the sake of trading them and build a top6 core you like and that meshes. By all accounts and display Fabbri seems to fit in well here... unlike past guys like AA and Mantha... but are we really ready to push forward with this exact group again? I guess what I'm saying is I can be swayed either way on Fabbri. Tossing him or keeping him.

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20 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

I'm back and forth on this. I really do like Fabbri as a player. And I like that Yzerman did some cultural building by bringing in Suter from Guelph as well.

But he's also our big trade chip this year and I have my eye on someone like Ondrej Palat to replace him in the offseason.

I think at some point you have to stop trading pieces away for the sake of trading them and build a top6 core you like and that meshes. By all accounts and display Fabbri seems to fit in well here... unlike past guys like AA and Mantha... but are we really ready to push forward with this exact group again? I guess what I'm saying is I can be swayed either way on Fabbri. Tossing him or keeping him.

He's a UFA so you trade him 100% unless you can get him to re-sign a short term deal. I wouldn't bother though. I doubt there will be much of a Guelph squad here beyond next year anyway. 

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23 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

He's a UFA so you trade him 100% unless you can get him to re-sign a short term deal. I wouldn't bother though. I doubt there will be much of a Guelph squad here beyond next year anyway. 

I think it depends on contract negotiations entirely. If he's willing stay here on a $4x3 great. Much more than that and it's shopping time. I'm really not sweet on anyone besides Bertuzzzi.

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6 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Do you watch the games or just stat watch? His raw stats arent near good enough but his underlying stats are real good. Im not sure if hell ever live up to the 6oa hype but he still looks like a real good top6 winger to me.

I watch the games and I don't see what these stats apparently capture... lots of bad passes, shots that miss the net by a country mile, poor decision making under the slightest pressure.  He's a 3rd liner at best IMHO.

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21 hours ago, mackel said:

I watch the games and I don't see what these stats apparently capture... lots of bad passes, shots that miss the net by a country mile, poor decision making under the slightest pressure.  He's a 3rd liner at best IMHO.

He does these things, but it´s not constantly bad what he does. Most of the time he´s playing it the right way and will be rewarded at some point. He scored against Dallas and maybe he gets another one against Arizona. He needs some confidence in his offense and his linemates as well. They do a good job defensively but the puck´s not really going in for any of them.

If he finds his confidence he will be 2nd line wing, if not I agree with you.

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Yamamoto is Zadinas measuring stick.  Not Brendan Shanahan, Glen Anderson, or Boom Boom Geoffrion.  Zadina haters are so high right now.  Kaller has .46 ppg playing on the best team in the league, playing with the 2nd best center in the league, and is a year+ older than Zadina with conparable NHL experience.  Zadina has .42 ppg playing with much less talented center talent (no offense to our guys), playing on a bottom feeder team (so far), and plays responsibly per his coaching (unlike 2 former whipping boys we shipped out recently).  There is absolutely nothing to dislike right now about Zadina other than he is misding Vrana to make his line more efficient.  

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  • Edvinsson is on pace to be the highest scoring U19 Dman in SHL history. Will be ready next season.
  • Johanssen and Wallinder are good, but I don't think either will be ready next year.
  • Soderblom is Franzen.
  • Pearson and Berggren are tearing up the AHL.
  • Tyuytayev has been forgettable in the AHL so far.
  • Buium and Mazur both playing really well for U of Denver.
  • Mastrosimone and Phillips both playing very well for Boston U.
  • Hanas still having his best season ever in the WHL.
  • Viro is not scoring this year, sorta concerning.
  • Cotton is point machine, but IDK that he can play defense.
  • Zito is still PPG in the OHL and is looking like a steal as a 6th round pick.

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1 hour ago, bIueadams said:
  • Edvinsson is on pace to be the highest scoring U19 Dman in SHL history. Will be ready next season.
  • Johanssen and Wallinder are good, but I don't think either will be ready next year.
  • Soderblom is Franzen.
  • Pearson and Berggren are tearing up the AHL.
  • Tyuytayev has been forgettable in the AHL so far.
  • Buium and Mazur both playing really well for U of Denver.
  • Mastrosimone and Phillips both playing very well for Boston U.
  • Hanas still having his best season ever in the WHL.
  • Viro is not scoring this year, sorta concerning.
  • Cotton is point machine, but IDK that he can play defense.
  • Zito is still PPG in the OHL and is looking like a steal as a 6th round pick.

Just look at all those future whipping boys n punching bags!! 

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2 hours ago, bIueadams said:

>Raymond - 19 yrs old - #4 pick - 20 NHL games
>On pace for 29 goals

>Zadina - 21 yrs old - #6 pick - 106 NHL games
>on pace for 12 goals

Zadina isnt and shouldnt be expected to be on Raymonds level but both have exceeded there draft slot outperformed most 6oa/4oa picks respectively. Its disappointing Zadina isnt scoring as much as we wouldve liked but hes doing everything else real well.

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1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Zadina isnt and shouldnt be expected to be on Raymonds level but both have exceeded there draft slot outperformed most 6oa/4oa picks respectively. Its disappointing Zadina isnt scoring as much as we wouldve liked but hes doing everything else real well.

If what we needed was someone who can play defense as good as Zadina does, and score goals as good as Zadina does, we shoulda just kept Glendening or Helm.

Zadina on pace for 12 goals.
Helm on pace for 12 goals.
Glendening on pace for 20 goals.

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On 11/18/2021 at 4:45 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Did anyone else hear about this?

<Grand Rapids Video>

 

On 11/18/2021 at 4:45 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

That's awesome! It wouldn't have been so bad for him to end up in Perrysburg or Maumee, but Grand Rapids is literally a ghost town when the sun goes down. We had a family reunion there this summer and family members were the only people we saw from the time we entered until the time we left the town lol.

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4 hours ago, bIueadams said:

If what we needed was someone who can play defense as good as Zadina does, and score goals as good as Zadina does, we shoulda just kept Glendening or Helm.

Zadina on pace for 12 goals.
Helm on pace for 12 goals.
Glendening on pace for 20 goals.

both make 3-4 times as much.

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6 hours ago, bIueadams said:

If what we needed was someone who can play defense as good as Zadina does, and score goals as good as Zadina does, we shoulda just kept Glendening or Helm.

Zadina on pace for 12 goals.
Helm on pace for 12 goals.
Glendening on pace for 20 goals.

Neither Helm or Glenny drive offense like Zadina does tho. The production should follow the heavy ozone time. I dont know about you but Im not ready to give up on the soon to be 22yo.

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11 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Neither Helm or Glenny drive offense like Zadina does tho. The production should follow the heavy ozone time. I dont know about you but Im not ready to give up on the soon to be 22yo.

He's trash.  End of story.  Stop putting lipstick on the pig... it's still a pig.

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2 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Neither Helm or Glenny drive offense like Zadina does tho. The production should follow the heavy ozone time. I dont know about you but Im not ready to give up on the soon to be 22yo.

I gave up on him being a serious impact player in 2018 when he was with Grand Rapids. I just didn't see anything to make me think he was any good. Granted he was very young on that team, but usually with a young #6 overall pick you're going to see some very raw high level skill shine through and some flashes of brilliance now and then. Saw none of that.

Do me a favor and next game JUST watch Zadina. Watch his decision making, execution, time away from the puck, in the D zone, neutral, and Ozone, the whole 9. Lemme know what you think.

IMO the most standout feature to his game is his stick lift. His ability to strip the puck is hard to miss. His hands are quick and precise. If you're in his reach or he can close the gap, he's getting that puck. Not quite Datsyukian, but he certainly does this better than anyone on the team IMO.

He's also hard worker and back checks hard. You absolutely cannot say this is a lazy player.

So why isn't he a defensive dynamo? Because his anticipation of the play is mediocre at best. He has the defensive chops to be a real force, but his brain isn't taking his feet to where he can utilize these tools properly. Datsyuk was able to put his tool box to work because he could read the attacking play before the attackers even knew what the play was. Zadina doesn't have that chess brain.

Zadina should be leading our forward group in takeaways with his skill set, but the exact opposite is happening. He has the worst give-away to take-away ration among all of our forwards. 13 giveaways and only 4 takeaways.

Now, before you say it, yes, those giveaways numbers are inflated... They're inflated by how many shots he takes that don't even go near the net. He should be called the end board assassin.

This takes us to his offense: The skill set is not there. He has a decently hard shot, but he seems to have no idea how to use or direct it. It's bad enough that he and every scout on the Red Wings should be embarrassed that they ever billed him as goal scorer.

"Driving the offense" lol sorry but I have to laugh at this. The kid is a primo passenger. He should be in the back of the Wings mini van in a childs car seat. He doesn't get breakaways, he doesn't create rush attempts, he doesn't draw penalties. He's a perimeter player that's easily knocked off the puck. He is decent in the cycle when the zone is spread and set up, his passes are crisp, but - back to his similar problem on defense - he doesn't anticipate the game at a high enough level to make any magic happen with his passing. Which is why he is sitting on 4 total assists right now, all of them secondary assists.

And to be fair, he does try to drive the offense sometimes... it just mostly ends in embarrassment when his poorly selected shot is blocked or it flies 2 ft wide of the net.

These are the same complaints and praises of him I had in 2018 (check post history of "Christopher Reeves Legs" here and on HF boards). HF boards lit me up for this evaluation back then, with their argument being "he's just young! he's just young!". Guess what? My nephew is just young too. Doesn't mean he has the skills to be a top flight NHLer one day.... youth potential means nothing if you can't at least glimpse that potential in a player.

And most concerning is I've seen very little progress from Zadina over the last 3 years. He's going to need an A+ center to feed him easy gifts all game long. Otherwise we have a very average hardworking 3rd line winger on our hands.

If you're okay with that result, great. But that's extremely disappointing for a former #6 overall picked ranked in the top3 IMO.

Should have packaged him in a trade before the 2020 season started.

 

Edited by bIueadams

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First Raymond comp now Datsyuk? I get why some fans are disappointed with these lofty expectations. Zadina shouldnt be held to such high standard. 

I agree that he needs a much better c than Suter. A 2nd line of Zadina-a+c-Vrana would be dangerous af. A lot of people didnt think Larkin was a 1c now that lazyloaf Mantha was swapped out with a young elite winger everyones tune has changed on Lark. Theres no question hes a 1c. Give Z some capable linemates and he should start producing aswell.

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1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Zadina shouldnt be held to such high standard. 

He's a #6 overall projected to go top 3. What kind of standard should he be held to?

 

8 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Otherwise we have a very average hardworking 3rd line winger on our hands.

I think this is pretty accurate, which I would consider an underperformance from such a high pick. 

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3 minutes ago, Rick D said:

He's a #6 overall projected to go top 3. What kind of standard should he be held to?

I see this 'projected to go top 3' nonsense quite often. Why does that matter> why does 6oa even matter? Judge him on what hes doing now not where he was drafted or even worse where he was 'projected' to be drafted. Zadina isnt Tkachuk or Monahan or Zibanejad but hes a heck of alot better then alot of other former 6oa picks. Zibanejads first 3 seasons 74gp 11g 21a 32pts 0.43pts/g is very similar to Zadinas current pace. 

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