New New Prospects Thread

[town123 173]

Crap.   Ivan Ivan got released.     There goes that dream.

 

[bIueadams 776]

36 minutes ago, town123 said:

Crap.   Ivan Ivan got released.     There goes that dream.

 

Both of them?

[Akakabuto 1,744]

Allmost there, Lalonde. Now just switch Erne with Berggren. 

[bIueadams 776]

Stephens on waivers with MTL. We didn't have room for him, but I'm a bit surprised he couldn't find a spot with the Habs.

[redw1ngs 149]

18 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Allmost there, Lalonde. Now just switch Erne with Berggren. 

This is the optimal lineup if Bergg can find his way in.

Eff the old school mentality having grinding 4th line have 4 lines that can be legitimate threats.

This team would be tons of fun to watch and playoff team imo. Erne Smith Oesterle Kampfer should see minimal ice time this season.

[kipwinger 8,491]

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

This is the optimal lineup if Bergg can find his way in.

Eff the old school mentality having grinding 4th line have 4 lines that can be legitimate threats.

This team would be tons of fun to watch and playoff team imo. Erne Smith Oesterle Kampfer should see minimal ice time this season.

Disagree. Right now Albert Johansson is a better player than Simon Edvinsson. He's consistently been better all pre-season as well.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Add Sundqvist and thats 26 guys.  Who goes down to GR?

 

 

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Disagree. Right now Albert Johansson is a better player than Simon Edvinsson. He's consistently been better all pre-season as well.

NOT EVEN CLOSE.  YOU HAVE NOT BEEN WATCHING THE GAMES IF YOU THINK THIS.

[kipwinger 8,491]

17 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Add Sundqvist and thats 26 guys.  Who goes down to GR?

 

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE.  YOU HAVE NOT BEEN WATCHING THE GAMES IF YOU THINK THIS.

Something about your reply seems deliberately provocative but I just can't put my finger on it.

Edit: And speaking of things I just can't put my finger on, there's something I really like about Marco Kasper's game but I'm at a loss...

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by kipwinger

[redw1ngs 149]

15 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Disagree. Right now Albert Johansson is a better player than Simon Edvinsson. He's consistently been better all pre-season as well.

Your disagreeing with me the coach and probly 95% of those thatve watched the games. Johanssons been good but Edvinssons been better. Neither have blown the doors off but when your competition is Oesterle its a pretty easy decision to make. Edvinsson will make the team out of camp and Johansson will be up when Maattas traded.

24 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Add Sundqvist and thats 26 guys.  Who goes down to GR?

trade/waive all the duds.

[kipwinger 8,491]

32 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Your disagreeing with me the coach and probly 95% of those thatve watched the games. Johanssons been good but Edvinssons been better. Neither have blown the doors off but when your competition is Oesterle its a pretty easy decision to make. Edvinsson will make the team out of camp and Johansson will be up when Maattas traded.

trade/waive all the duds.

That's odd, I don't recall Lalonde saying anything like this about Johansson:

"You don’t have to be a trained hockey guy to see I’m sure he led the entire group today in turnovers,” Red Wings coach Derek Lalonde said of Edvinsson. “It’s something we’re going to work on with him.

I think with Simon, he might have had six or seven turnovers in that first half,” Lalonde said. “That’s something he’s going to have to manage. That’s something we’re going to have to work with him.”

I don’t know if it’s so much going to be a negative early on,” Lalonde said. “We understand it’s a process with him. Unfortunately for him, a lot of turnovers ended up back at him and caused him to defend on shifts where obviously we’d like him to be playing north."

Maybe Lalonde is giving you and the other "95% of those that watched the games" too much credit?

[kipwinger 8,491]

Then, of course, there's these bad boys which seem to show Simon Edvinsson fluctuating from horribly bad to moderately good while Albert Johansson has been consistently positive in all facets of the game. But I'm sure the ol' eyeball brigade has it right on this one.

 

 

[redw1ngs 149]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's odd, I don't recall Lalonde saying anything like this about Johansson:

"You don’t have to be a trained hockey guy to see I’m sure he led the entire group today in turnovers,” Red Wings coach Derek Lalonde said of Edvinsson. “It’s something we’re going to work on with him.

I think with Simon, he might have had six or seven turnovers in that first half,” Lalonde said. “That’s something he’s going to have to manage. That’s something we’re going to have to work with him.”

I don’t know if it’s so much going to be a negative early on,” Lalonde said. “We understand it’s a process with him. Unfortunately for him, a lot of turnovers ended up back at him and caused him to defend on shifts where obviously we’d like him to be playing north."

Maybe Lalonde is giving you and the other "95% of those that watched the games" too much credit?

Your pulling quotes from training camp and red v white game? lol

Heres some more recent ones from pre-season.

“I’ve liked him through the whole camp. That’s one player who I think it was healthy to have a fresh start. He’s big, he’s got a long stick. He’s probably a little better positionally defensively than I would have anticipated. He’s got great poise.

“Even looking back to that Red/White game, those turnovers, I haven’t seen them in these exhibition games. Just coming off the ice real quick (assistant coach Bob Boughner) made a comment, too. We’ve been happy with him and he’s a 19-year-old playing this game and he’s shown very well.”

“The first couple of games, the practices, even the Red/White game, was like it’s just so fast. I think it’s slowing down for him, which is good,” Lalonde said. “He’s committed. He wants to get better. He’s seeking video out the next day. Any criticism you take to him is constructive. What he is so far for me is very exciting.”

Thats just a few quotes from 1 article. There are many more that we can pull.

Edvinsson has been playing more games more minutes more special teams all with more NHL quality players then Johansson.

Edited October 5, 2022 by redw1ngs

[kipwinger 8,491]

4 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Your pulling quotes from training camp and red v white game? lol

Heres some more recent ones from pre-season.

“I’ve liked him through the whole camp. That’s one player who I think it was healthy to have a fresh start. He’s big, he’s got a long stick. He’s probably a little better positionally defensively than I would have anticipated. He’s got great poise.

“Even looking back to that Red/White game, those turnovers, I haven’t seen them in these exhibition games. Just coming off the ice real quick (assistant coach Bob Boughner) made a comment, too. We’ve been happy with him and he’s a 19-year-old playing this game and he’s shown very well.”

“The first couple of games, the practices, even the Red/White game, was like it’s just so fast. I think it’s slowing down for him, which is good,” Lalonde said. “He’s committed. He wants to get better. He’s seeking video out the next day. Any criticism you take to him is constructive. What he is so far for me is very exciting.”

Thats just a few quotes from 1 article. There are many more that we can pull.

Edvinsson has been playing more games more minutes more special teams all with more NHL quality players then Johansson.

How dare I pull quotes from one whole week ago. They're obviously irrelevant. But again, I'll wait for you to post all the times Lalonde has said anything equivalent about Johansson. And then when you're done with that feel free to respond to the fact that Johansson has not even once posted a negative impact, offensively or defensively, in a pre-season game (something that DEFINTELY can't be said about Edvinsson).

Edited October 5, 2022 by kipwinger

[bIueadams 776]

Neither Jodogg or Eddogg will make the team.

This is the season of OOOOOOOSTerle

[kipwinger 8,491]

Never say I'm unwilling to compromise. In the end I'll just leave this as a final point in the Johansson vs. Edvinsson debate:

It's all love baby.

[redw1ngs 149]

40 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

How dare I pull quotes from one whole week ago. They're obviously irrelevant. But again, I'll wait for you to post all the times Lalonde has said anything equivalent about Johansson. And then when you're done with that feel free to respond to the fact that Johansson has not even once posted a negative impact, offensively or defensively, in a pre-season game (something that DEFINTELY can't be said about Edvinsson).

The red v white game is as irrelevant as it gets. Lalonde has said very little about Johansson compared to Edvinsson thats kinda the point. He also shot down your previous quote about turnovers. Hes been steady and making plays all pre-season.

[kipwinger 8,491]

3 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

The red v white game is as irrelevant as it gets. Lalonde has said very little about Johansson compared to Edvinsson thats kinda the point. He also shot down your previous quote about turnovers. Hes been steady and making plays all pre-season.

Again, feel free to turn your attention to the stats I've posted above. At no point in training camp or the pre-season has Johansson been a liability in the same ways that Edvinsson has been. In fact, he hasn't been a liability at all. He's consistently good at both ends of the ice. Edvinsson has had one good pre-season game and a couple of stinkers. I'd agree if you said "Edvinsson WILL be better". But there's literally nothing, statistically or anecdotally, to suggest he's better right now. Other than your eyeball test, obviously.

[redw1ngs 149]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Again, feel free to turn your attention to the stats I've posted above. At no point in training camp or the pre-season has Johansson been a liability in the same ways that Edvinsson has been. In fact, he hasn't been a liability at all. He's consistently good at both ends of the ice. Edvinsson has had one good pre-season game and a couple of stinkers. I'd agree if you said "Edvinsson WILL be better". But there's literally nothing, statistically or anecdotally, to suggest he's better right now. Other than your eyeball test, obviously.

Im gonna be completely honest I have no clue what those statcards are showing. Not sure how much credibility they have tho when according to those Maatta was our best dman and Raymond and Vrana were our worst forwards last game.

You posted lines with Edvinsson in the top6 and Johansson in the dust. Sure tho Jo has been so much better then Ed.

[kipwinger 8,491]

1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Im gonna be completely honest I have no clue what those statcards are showing. Not sure how much credibility they have tho when according to those Maatta was our best dman and Raymond and Vrana were our worst forwards last game.

You posted lines with Edvinsson in the top6 and Johansson in the dust. Sure tho Jo has been so much better then Ed.

If you need to me explain how to read graphs/stats then you probably shouldn't be arguing with me.

p.s. You're definitely reading them wrong.

Edited October 5, 2022 by kipwinger

[redw1ngs 149]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

If you need to me explain how to read graphs/stats then you probably shouldn't be arguing with me.

Id love to see you try to explain how Maatta was our best dman and Raymond and Vrana were our worst forwards last game. lol

[kipwinger 8,491]

4 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Id love to see you try to explain how Maatta was our best dman and Raymond and Vrana were our worst forwards last game. lol

Because sometimes players have good games and sometimes players have bad games. And when you look at all 82 games in aggregate you get a clear picture of just how good (or bad) a player is overall. So far, Johansson has had two good games and no bad ones. Conversely, Edvinsson has had two bad games and one good one. Which is precisely the point I've been making all day. There is literally nothing to suggest that Edvinsson has been better than Johansson so far.

From here on I'll have to charge you for these types of lessons in critical thinking.

Edited October 5, 2022 by kipwinger

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Because sometimes players have good games and sometimes players have bad games. And when you look at all 82 games in aggregate you get a clear picture of just how good (or bad) a player is overall. So far, Johansson has had two good games and no bad ones. Conversely, Edvinsson has had two bad games and one good one. Which is precisely the point I've been making all day. There is literally nothing to suggest that Edvinsson has been better than Johansson so far.

From here on I'll have to charge you for these types of lessons in critical thinking.

He was on the ice for 3 goals in our loss to Chicago and looked completely lost.  I covered this in the Seider / Lidstrom thread.  You have not watched the games.  That much is clear.  He was SO BAD against Chicago, There is zero way you could defend him.  Worse than Cholowski's worst game type of bad.  He was a lot better in his 2nd game.  I will give you that.  But he isnt playing with Detroit this year.  You better get used to that idea.

[kipwinger 8,491]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

He was on the ice for 3 goals in our loss to Chicago and looked completely lost.  I covered this in the Seider / Lidstrom thread.  You have not watched the games.  That much is clear.  He was SO BAD against Chicago, There is zero way you could defend him.  Worse than Cholowski's worst game type of bad.  He was a lot better in his 2nd game.  I will give you that.  But he isnt playing with Detroit this year.  You better get used to that idea.

I've watched every single game. If you have, you haven't been paying attention closely because Johansson wasn't on the ice for the first even strength goal of that game, the 2nd he got burnt on, the third was a powerplay (he's never been a penalty killer before), and the fourth was an empty net. So it's safe to say "he was on the ice for three goals against" is lacking a fair amount of context. At no point have I said he's been perfect in the preseason, I said he's been a net positive at both ends of the ice (he has) and that he's been better than Edvinsson (who's also been on the ice for more than a few goals against). I also never said he WOULD start in Detroit, I said I'd start him there over Edvinsson (who's struggled badly).

[redw1ngs 149]

36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Because sometimes players have good games and sometimes players have bad games. And when you look at all 82 games in aggregate you get a clear picture of just how good (or bad) a player is overall. So far, Johansson has had two good games and no bad ones. Conversely, Edvinsson has had two bad games and one good one. Which is precisely the point I've been making all day. There is literally nothing to suggest that Edvinsson has been better than Johansson so far.

From here on I'll have to charge you for these types of lessons in critical thinking.

So you think Maatta was our best dman and Raymond and Vrana were our 2 worst fs last game? The statcards dont lie.

Btw Edvinsson hasnt had 2 bad games and 1 good one. He had 1 game he clearly looked rusty adjusting to the bigger ice and better each of the last 2gp. 

Im not sure what the argument is here its clear Ed is ahead of Jo in the eyes of SY and DL.

[kipwinger 8,491]

1 minute ago, redw1ngs said:

So you think Maatta was our best dman and Raymond and Vrana were our 2 worst fs last game? The statcards dont lie.

Btw Edvinsson hasnt had 2 bad games and 1 good one. He had 1 game he clearly looked rusty adjusting to the bigger ice and better each of the last 2gp. 

Im not sure what the argument is here its clear Ed is ahead of Jo in the eyes of SY and DL.

Bud, you REALLY need to pay attention. Last game, against the Pens on 10/3, Raymond and Vrana combined for ZERO points. neither the box score, nor the "statcards" I posted above suggest they were good in that game. So I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on here? The game before that, when they combined for 4 points against the Blackhawks they WERE the best players on the ice and both the box scores and the "statcards" I posted above support that.

You're right, stats don't lie. You clearly don't have a clue though. Hard to imagine why I don't put any faith in the eyeball test though.