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The 91 of Ryans

New New Prospects Thread

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Sebrango sucks. If everything goes right for him hes a 6/7D. Hes not in the same mix as Johansson and def not right behind Edvinsson. Sebrangos still toward the bottom of our LD depth chart behind Edvinsson Johansson Wallinder Buium McIsaac imo.

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2 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Sebrango sucks. If everything goes right for him hes a 6/7D. Hes not in the same mix as Johansson and def not right behind Edvinsson. Sebrangos still toward the bottom of our LD depth chart behind Edvinsson Johansson Wallinder Buium McIsaac imo.

Nobody is saying he is on the level of guys like Johansson. He is simply one of the D prospects that are closest to NHL-ready. 

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12 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Nobody is saying he is on the level of guys like Johansson. He is simply one of the D prospects that are closest to NHL-ready. 

I disagree. The only 1 of 5 dmen I mentioned that is behind Sebrango is Buium imo. Edvinsson Johansson Wallinder and McIsaac are all ahead in terms of ceiling and NHL readiness imo.

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Based on what has happened thus far, I don't see how anyone can objectively put Hughes or Zegras above Seider in a redraft. In a 10 year redraft, who knows? But it seems to me that Wheeler is still trying his best to minimize his complete wiff on Seider.

Sebrango could be the new Lashoff for this team.

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Apparently he isn't all that bad 

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2022/08/red-wings-pick-donovan-sebrango-brings-grit-leadership-to-canada-for-world-juniors.html

From article 

“It’s pretty obvious I’m not going to be an offensive guy at the next level,” Sebrango said. “Being gritty is something I pride myself on and being able to shut down their top players.” 

not a bad thing if he is your 6th guy 

 

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Sebrango will have a really hard time making this team as we continue to improve. There is still a place in the league for one-way defensive specialists, but typically guys like that aren't in high demand by good teams (see: Olli Maatta). Sebrango is a lefty, he's obviously not as good on either side of the puck as Seider, he's not as offensive as Johansson (likely PP specialist), and so he'll have to try to compete with guys like Wallinder, Buium, or McIsaac for a job. Is he so much better defensively than them that their clear advantage in the offensive zone is nullified? I doubt it.

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2 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Apparently he isn't all that bad 

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2022/08/red-wings-pick-donovan-sebrango-brings-grit-leadership-to-canada-for-world-juniors.html

From article 

“It’s pretty obvious I’m not going to be an offensive guy at the next level,” Sebrango said. “Being gritty is something I pride myself on and being able to shut down their top players.” 

not a bad thing if he is your 6th guy 

 

Theres nothing apparent about a fluff article written by a Red Wings beat writer.

Sebrango likely wont play in the NHL and def wont ever crack the top6 on a contending team. He sucks offensively and is ok defensively not a very good player at the AHL level let alone NHL.

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3 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Theres nothing apparent about a fluff article written by a Red Wings beat writer.

Sebrango likely wont play in the NHL and def wont ever crack the top6 on a contending team. He sucks offensively and is ok defensively not a very good player at the AHL level let alone NHL.

Dead wrong.  Your worst take on this message board.  Sebrango is 20 and has 100 games as a pro already.  He's playing for Canada in the World Juniors.  That's FAR from sucking.  On top of that, the organization loves him.  I will bet you $20.00 he gets a game with the Wings this year.  Deal?

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6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Dead wrong.  Your worst take on this message board.  Sebrango is 20 and has 100 games as a pro already.  He's playing for Canada in the World Juniors.  That's FAR from sucking.  On top of that, the organization loves him.  I will bet you $20.00 he gets a game with the Wings this year.  Deal?

He wouldnt of played pro to this point if it werent for covid. Making a u20 team as a 20yo isnt exactly a big feat. No chance he plays a game with the Wings this season. 

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10 hours ago, marcaractac said:

I'll always root for Sebrango based on his upbringing and work ethic alone. It's a feel-good story and hopefully, he can keep it up. 

Me too.  Kid is a winner.  He's excelling with what he's been given.  Those kind of guys are the kind I want on my team.  

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9 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Youve come to the correct forum for hottakes. But can u support ur hotcake??

Im not even sure how this is a hot take at this point. Hes been mediocre/awful since drafted. He struggled at times in jr this season bad in wjc this past winter and again yesterday terrible at dev camp last year and again a few weeks ago. Hes gonna get lit tf up if he plays in gr this season. Shoulda drafted the brick Wallstedt.

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1 hour ago, redw1ngs said:

Im not even sure how this is a hot take at this point. Hes been mediocre/awful since drafted. He struggled at times in jr this season bad in wjc this past winter and again yesterday terrible at dev camp last year and again a few weeks ago. Hes gonna get lit tf up if he plays in gr this season. Shoulda drafted the brick Wallstedt.

I'd agree with some of this. But you're misrepresenting some things too. He was awesome to start and end last season. He had 5 shutouts and a 1.9 GAA in 19 playoff games? He just sucked during the middle of the season. He didn't play in any tournament games during the  WJC in December. Also, there was no development camp last year. It was canceled as a result of the pandemic for two years.

But all in all I think most reasonable fans agree that his performance isn't what we had hoped for when he was drafted, and given that there was another premium goalie available there will always be a bit of buyer's remorse if Wallstedt turns out better. I'm still not overly concerned until he starts getting lit up after having a year or two of pro-hockey coaching. I think he needs some mechanical tweaking to his game, but otherwise I still think he'll be fine. The next two years will be good for him. Hopefully it will give him a chance to work on his game without the pressure of having to go out and be "the man" every single night.

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35 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'd agree with some of this. But you're misrepresenting some things too. He was awesome to start and end last season. He had 5 shutouts and a 1.9 GAA in 19 playoff games? He just sucked during the middle of the season. He didn't play in any tournament games during the  WJC in December. Also, there was no development camp last year. It was canceled as a result of the pandemic for two years.

But all in all I think most reasonable fans agree that his performance isn't what we had hoped for when he was drafted, and given that there was another premium goalie available there will always be a bit of buyer's remorse if Wallstedt turns out better. I'm still not overly concerned until he starts getting lit up after having a year or two of pro-hockey coaching. I think he needs some mechanical tweaking to his game, but otherwise I still think he'll be fine. The next two years will be good for him. Hopefully it will give him a chance to work on his game without the pressure of having to go out and be "the man" every single night.

In between the awesome numbers were to many terrible numbers it seemed like for every shutout he had a sub .900 game. Those awesome numbers were also on a top team in a weak league. No he didnt play in any tournament games and wont this time around either because like last winter he sucked balls in the games before the tourney even started. Maybe Im mixing up dev camp and training camp? Cossa definitely played scrimmage games in a Red Wings jersey last summer and sucked then to.

Wallstedt will be a elite starting goalie for 15yrs. Cossa might play in the league but wont ever be a starter imo.

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I'd agree with some of this. But you're misrepresenting some things too. He was awesome to start and end last season. He had 5 shutouts and a 1.9 GAA in 19 playoff games? He just sucked during the middle of the season. He didn't play in any tournament games during the  WJC in December. Also, there was no development camp last year. It was canceled as a result of the pandemic for two years.

But all in all I think most reasonable fans agree that his performance isn't what we had hoped for when he was drafted, and given that there was another premium goalie available there will always be a bit of buyer's remorse if Wallstedt turns out better. I'm still not overly concerned until he starts getting lit up after having a year or two of pro-hockey coaching. I think he needs some mechanical tweaking to his game, but otherwise I still think he'll be fine. The next two years will be good for him. Hopefully it will give him a chance to work on his game without the pressure of having to go out and be "the man" every single night.

Cossa also entered the game last night when Canada was up 3-0 and started falling asleep at the wheel. Two of Sweden's goals they had all the time and space in the world to pick their spot. The third goal was a Wallinder point shot where Cossa was screened by his own guys.

Cossa is definitely a project and always has been. But there are no flaws in his game that are not coachable. His size, athleticism, work ethic, confidence, and mentality are huge assets that cannot be taught. I feel like when he is off, his positioning is off. Working with pro-level coaching will go a long way for this kid. 

His struggles this past season were good for him. It was adversity and he hit the reset button and then battled through it. I won't have any concerns unless he goes 1+ years in pro hockey without showing any sign of improving. 

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12 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

In between the awesome numbers were to many terrible numbers it seemed like for every shutout he had a sub .900 game. Those awesome numbers were also on a top team in a weak league. No he didnt play in any tournament games and wont this time around either because like last winter he sucked balls in the games before the tourney even started. Maybe Im mixing up dev camp and training camp? Cossa definitely played scrimmage games in a Red Wings jersey last summer and sucked then to.

Wallstedt will be a elite starting goalie for 15yrs. Cossa might play in the league but wont ever be a starter imo.

I'm in an awkward position here because I generally agree with you that his performance wasn't what you'd expect last season, but it was by no means "bad". His final stats in the WHL were solid, just not spectacular, during the regular season. During the playoffs he was a beast, and that's important because it's the playoffs, there are no bad teams to inflate your stats. Then he was great again during the Memorial Cup.

The Red Wings event you're thinking of is the prospect tournament. He wasn't great at that event, I agree, but he was the youngest goalie there. He had just been drafted and got lit up by guys who were a few years older, some of whom are playing in professional leagues already. I'm not too beat up about it. You're also a little off base about the WJC. He didn't play, not because he was awful (he wouldn't have made the team if he was bad) but because Dylan Garand (who is a full year older than Cossa) had a monster season last year. He was the CHL goalie of the year. Canada went with the older, hotter, goalie. That's not uncommon, they always put older players in those positions. Remember when Joe Veleno was their 1C for the WJC despite never, ever, being the best center Canada had on their WJC roster? Me too.

I don't know enough about Wallstedt to say he'll be elite. If you think so I'll defer to your judgement. I definitely want Cossa to be more consistent with his performance as well. So I'm with you on the fact that he's under performed. But goalies do A LOT of developing post-draft. Most don't even sniff the NHL until they're 23-25 years old. Igor Shesterkin, for example, developed for 5 years before he even got a cup of coffee in the NHL. Yaroslav Askarov is now in the draft+4 year, has been abysmal in international play, and was never a starter in the KHL despite being one of the top goalie prospects of the last 10 years. He'll compete for a starting job in the AHL this season.

My point is, it's a little early to tell how Cossa is going to develop, but I agree that Wallstedt is obviously ahead of him at this point and looks to be the better player overall thus far.

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Knowing the relationship Yzerman has with Hakan Andersson and as much as he dives into the Swedish pool when he drafts, you'd have to think that he asked Hakan if Wallstedt should be the pick or should he go with Cossa. I am sure if Hakan had said Wallstedt, then we'd have Wallstedt. Everyone wants to trust Hakan with all these picks that he is in on, yet not trust passing on Wallstedt. You have to know that Hakan had his opinion on which Goalie to take. He obviously didn't push for Wallstedt or Yzerman would've drafted Wallstedt. I have a feeling both Yzerman and Hakan feel they drafted the right guy. 100% Hakan was asked if they should draft Wallstedt when they traded up.

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Knowing the relationship Yzerman has with Hakan Andersson and as much as he dives into the Swedish pool when he drafts, you'd have to think that he asked Hakan if Wallstedt should be the pick or should he go with Cossa. I am sure if Hakan had said Wallstedt, then we'd have Wallstedt. Everyone wants to trust Hakan with all these picks that he is in on, yet not trust passing on Wallstedt. You have to know that Hakan had his opinion on which Goalie to take. He obviously didn't push for Wallstedt or Yzerman would've drafted Wallstedt. I have a feeling both Yzerman and Hakan feel they drafted the right guy. 100% Hakan was asked if they should draft Wallstedt when they traded up.

I suspect that scouts saw something in Walmart's technique/style that they had concerns about. Cossa seemed like the bigger boom/bust pick at the time, and still does now.

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Knowing the relationship Yzerman has with Hakan Andersson and as much as he dives into the Swedish pool when he drafts, you'd have to think that he asked Hakan if Wallstedt should be the pick or should he go with Cossa. I am sure if Hakan had said Wallstedt, then we'd have Wallstedt. Everyone wants to trust Hakan with all these picks that he is in on, yet not trust passing on Wallstedt. You have to know that Hakan had his opinion on which Goalie to take. He obviously didn't push for Wallstedt or Yzerman would've drafted Wallstedt. I have a feeling both Yzerman and Hakan feel they drafted the right guy. 100% Hakan was asked if they should draft Wallstedt when they traded up.

It could be just that Draper was banging the table harder for Cossa and maybe Hakan didnt have much of an opinion on the 2 goalies. Im sure there are Swedes that HA wants at every single pick but SY/KD obv arent taking all Swedes every draft.

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I suspect that scouts saw something in Walmart's technique/style that they had concerns about. Cossa seemed like the bigger boom/bust pick at the time, and still does now.

Id bet its more of a personality issue.

I was a Walstud fan at the draft. I doubt his issues are technique or technical. He is SOUND in those departments. The defination of textbook technique goalie. 

On the other hand i was really impressed by Cossas personality after being drafted. He is smart, charismatic, and confident. Shades of Seider.

SY made it apparent he was gunning for key players with strong character to be the bed rock of this new era. Id bet Cossas personality set him apart - whereas walnuts likely had the same boring stoic personality of every other blue collar swede. 

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