• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
bIueadams

Restarting the rebuild - Fully wiping the Holland slate clean

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, amato said:

Trading Larkin would be a horrible idea unless we're getting another first line center back. Our center depth behind him still isn't great.. although Copp has definitely helped. 

Didnt have a 1D or a compentent top4 for a decade. But a 2C playing 1C is where we draw the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Even with Hossa, the team was a cup-fav. You don't sell in that circumstance. 

Trading him for the sake of it? 100%. But if he remains unsigned come deadline time? Got to get what you can before risking losing for nothing. To be fair, IF it came to that, Larkin would be the prize of the TDL and would bring in a haul.

 

For sure. Definitely would bring in A LOT. I personally would just hope for another high upside top 6 center in the package. But also I see no reason why Larkin wouldn't re-sign. Time will tell, I suppose. 

Just now, bIueadams said:

Didnt have a 1D or a compentent top4 for a decade. But a 2C playing 1C is where we draw the line.


Wouldn't have traded away a 1D either? Not sure what your point is. I'm not saying he's untouchable.. just that I'd rather have a replacement in the deal, than put a 3C at 1C. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, amato said:

 

For sure. Definitely would bring in A LOT. I personally would just hope for another high upside top 6 center in the package. But also I see no reason why Larkin wouldn't re-sign. Time will tell, I suppose. 


Wouldn't have traded away a 1D either? Not sure what your point is. I'm not saying he's untouchable.. just that I'd rather have a replacement in the deal, than put a 3C at 1C. 

Oh yeah, for me the ask for Larkin at 50% salary retained would start with a 2023 first and a young center with upside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, amato said:

 

For sure. Definitely would bring in A LOT. I personally would just hope for another high upside top 6 center in the package. But also I see no reason why Larkin wouldn't re-sign. Time will tell, I suppose. 


Wouldn't have traded away a 1D either? Not sure what your point is. I'm not saying he's untouchable.. just that I'd rather have a replacement in the deal, than put a 3C at 1C. 

My point is losing larkin isnt a big deal. I look forward to the days when hes remembered among guys like paul woods. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bIueadams said:

My point is losing larkin isnt a big deal. I look forward to the days when hes remembered among guys like paul woods. 

It would depend on the return imo, if it's a big deal or not. 

 

That said, I'd definitely trust Yzerman to maximize that return. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, amato said:

It would depend on the return imo, if it's a big deal or not. 

 

That said, I'd definitely trust Yzerman to maximize that return. 

Yes id want a kings ransom. Multiple 1sts and or prospects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Oh yeah, for me the ask for Larkin at 50% salary retained would start with a 2023 first and a young center with upside.

Teams that would want Larkin have 1st round picks that are more like high 2nd round picks...  I'm not the biggest Larkin guy but you guys are on crack if you'd trade a guy who is now a legitimate 1C (albeit not elite) for a C prospect and a late 1st round pick.

Ideally you sign Larkin and move assets for an extended Bo Horvat... if you have Larkin, Horvat, Copp, and Rasmussen down the middle you're an unquestionable cup contender for 5-8 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mackel said:

Teams that would want Larkin have 1st round picks that are more like high 2nd round picks...  I'm not the biggest Larkin guy but you guys are on crack if you'd trade a guy who is now a legitimate 1C (albeit not elite) for a C prospect and a late 1st round pick.

Ideally you sign Larkin and move assets for an extended Bo Horvat... if you have Larkin, Horvat, Copp, and Rasmussen down the middle you're an unquestionable cup contender for 5-8 years.

Larkin is a limited time asset. Eventually he won't be a mediocre 1C anymore. And Eventually he will retire.

The question is, do you believe this team wins a cup with Larkin as our 1C? If you don't, then the futures are worth it regardless of the haul. But I do believe the haul would be very good.

I realize that's a tough question to answer, but I personally don't think Larkin leads us to a cup. He's a great player - but he's no Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Mackinnon, Stamkos, Bergeron, Crosby, Kopitar, etc etc. He's a replaceable player. The Dale McCourt of the 2020s. Hell, the Leafs have Mattehews and Tavares down the middle and cant put a cup together - but Detroit fans expect Larkin and Copp to get it done...

I'm more than a bit sick of the narrative in the Wings community that Larkin is somehow untouchable. For a fanbase that's fielded great centers like Yzerman, Fedorov, Zetterberg, Datsyuk for the last 20+ years the standards have significantly dropped. He's a great player - but not someone worthy of special treatment IMO.

I like what Yzerman is doing, and I think clinging to Larkin and Bertuzzi is a mistake. After suffering for so long, what we should want to build is a dynastic core of as many future HOFers as we can muster. Larkin and Bertuzzi aren't HOFers - they're decent peripheral stars. Great teams aren't built on the backs of decent peripheral stars. They should be traded while we're still rebuilding for the future assets we need to build an all Yzerman core of elite players - Kasper, Raymond, Cossa, Seider, Edvinsson, etc.

Out with the Holland players. In with the Yzerman players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mackel said:

Teams that would want Larkin have 1st round picks that are more like high 2nd round picks...  I'm not the biggest Larkin guy but you guys are on crack if you'd trade a guy who is now a legitimate 1C (albeit not elite) for a C prospect and a late 1st round pick.

Ideally you sign Larkin and move assets for an extended Bo Horvat... if you have Larkin, Horvat, Copp, and Rasmussen down the middle you're an unquestionable cup contender for 5-8 years.

I said that would be the starting point, not the final ask. I also said nothing about a C prospect. When I say a young center with a high upside, that pretty much means A prospect. So it's pretty clear that I said it takes a first and a high-end prospect just to get things started. Clearly, it would take more than that. 

I've also stressed over and over that I do not want to see him traded and very much want to see that 8-year extension. A trade scenario should only occur if we reach TDL with no ink to paper. Not an unreasonable thought. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Teams have proven to win with good c and great w and d. St louis had O'reilly Schenn Bozak Sundqvist at c. Larkin is better then any of those. Like mentioned adding Horvat having Larkin Horvat Copp/Kasper at c with Raymond Vrana Kubalik Berggren Perron Copp/Kasper at w and Seider Hronek Edvinsson Wallinder at d thats a cup caliber team imo. We just need a g because Cossa aint it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Teams have proven to win with good c and great w and d. St louis had O'reilly Schenn Bozak Sundqvist at c. Larkin is better then any of those. Like mentioned adding Horvat having Larkin Horvat Copp/Kasper at c with Raymond Vrana Kubalik Berggren Perron Copp/Kasper at w and Seider Hronek Edvinsson Wallinder at d thats a cup caliber team imo. We just need a g because Cossa aint it.

It's refreshing to see roster predictions that don't include Zadina. 

Too early to tell on Cossa, but I do get a kick out of ppl who think he will be on the roster before the end of this season. We're set for at least a few years with Husso at least. The dude is legit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Teams have proven to win with good c and great w and d. St louis had O'reilly Schenn Bozak Sundqvist at c. Larkin is better then any of those. Like mentioned adding Horvat having Larkin Horvat Copp/Kasper at c with Raymond Vrana Kubalik Berggren Perron Copp/Kasper at w and Seider Hronek Edvinsson Wallinder at d thats a cup caliber team imo. We just need a g because Cossa aint it.

2022 - Mackinnon
2021 - Stamkos
2020 - Stamkos
2019 - ROR <------------ plz ignore 99% of cup teams. This is the norm.
2018 - Backstrom
2017 - Crosby
2016 - Crosby
2015 - Toews
2014 - Kopitar
2013 - Toews
2012 - Kopitar
2011 - Bergeron
2010 - Toews
2009 - Crosby
2008 - Datsyuk
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay - say we do the opposite this year - we decide to buy at the deadline... what would we even try to acquire?

I doubt patience plan Yzerman is ready to spend big on a major acquisition yet. Yet I also don't seem him throwing picks at rentals at this stage either. So maybe more cheapish role players like Walman and Sundqvist that he'll likely re-sign? I don't think we need anymore bottom 4 Dmen when the bottom 4 has been solid and there's a lot of depth there. Maybe a PK forward to take the PK burden off Larkin and Copp? But - even with our injuries at forward - we will have a glut of bottom 6 forwards again next year witth Ras/Veleno/Zadina/Sundqvist/Berggren/Soderblom/Fabbri/Kubalik. We really don't need anymore.

I'm totally at a loss as to what this team would even add. Maybe that's why you sell? Or just sit on our thumbs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two interesting teams that are struggling this year: Caps and Blues (f*** you Nick Leddy)

Yzerman loves to trade with the Blues... They have Kyrou and Thomas getting BIG raises next year and ROR and Tarasneko's contracts expiring. It would be interesting to add Blues C ROR to this group of former Blues. But probably costs the farm.

I'd love to shore up the defense for next year and get Orlov out of Washington. Or maybe to a lesser extent get Nick Jensen back from them. 

Orlov - Seider
Chiarot - Hronek
Maata - Walman/Lindstrom

^^^ this would be pretty sick to start the year with

If we can't prey Orlov out of Washington, I'd take a run at CBJ's Gavrikov. Basically a younger version of Orlov.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2022 at 10:36 PM, mackel said:

Teams that would want Larkin have 1st round picks that are more like high 2nd round picks...  I'm not the biggest Larkin guy but you guys are on crack if you'd trade a guy who is now a legitimate 1C (albeit not elite) for a C prospect and a late 1st round pick.

Ideally you sign Larkin and move assets for an extended Bo Horvat... if you have Larkin, Horvat, Copp, and Rasmussen down the middle you're an unquestionable cup contender for 5-8 years.

I like your way of thinking, but I would think Horvat wants his try at FA which is fine, sign him and save the load going to Vancouver.   Yeah, if you have Larkin, Horvat and Kasper down the middle....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2022 at 1:22 PM, bIueadams said:

2022 - Mackinnon
2021 - Stamkos
2020 - Stamkos
2019 - ROR <------------ plz ignore 99% of cup teams. This is the norm.
2018 - Backstrom
2017 - Crosby
2016 - Crosby
2015 - Toews
2014 - Kopitar
2013 - Toews
2012 - Kopitar
2011 - Bergeron
2010 - Toews
2009 - Crosby
2008 - Datsyuk
 

Larkins also better then Toews so thats 4yrs since 2008 but the point wasnt how many times but that it can be done. You can win with a very good 1c elite w and d and strong depth and it looks like thats what SY is building. Larkin isn being traded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Larkins also better then Toews so thats 4yrs since 2008 but the point wasnt how many times but that it can be done. You can win with a very good 1c elite w and d and strong depth and it looks like thats what SY is building. Larkin isn being traded.

Larkin's on pace for 720 pts in 1000 games.
You know who had similar numbers to that? All the greats = Jason Pominville, Mikko Koivu, Cory Stillman, Petr Sykora, Petr Nedvded, Martin Straka
Some real names to remember. Won a lot of cups too.

Toews already has 866 pts at about 1000 games.
Guys at that party = Alex Tanguay, Slava Kozlov, Ted Lindsay, Markus Naslund, Trevor Linden
You know guys who actually earn names for themselves

Toews had already captained his team to THREE cups at Larkin's current age. Is the youngest captain to ever win a Conn Smythe. Youngest triple gold member of all time. Only 1 of 8 players to win a gold and a cup in the same season. Won a world cup. Two time NHL cover athlete. And has a Selke to his name to boot.

Larkin's personal awards at the same age = Big ten freshmmen of the year 2015

But yes I'm sure Larkin will be remembered as "better than Toews", and this isn't just you being a fussy d-boss fanboy

Edited by bIueadams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this