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LeftWinger

Larkin & Bertuzzi Contract Watch? Red Wings TDL Discussion.

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15 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

You can blame Kuznetsov for making Vrana a full blown crackhead from his days with the Capitals. I'm even surprised that Kuznetsov is still playing hockey.

Well he scores close to a PPG every year. You can overlook a lot when a player does that consistently I think.

And remember Kuzy is just the one that got caught. Who knows what his actual habits are like. The Caps nor he, entered himself into the player rehab program after getting caught red handed. He may very well be just a casual user who only "parties" a few times a year, once a month, or only in the offseason. That wouldn't really bother me that much. I don't care what guys do outside of work - so long as it's in control and not affecting their work.

Vrana on the other hand appears to have some addiction issues with substances. Is that Kuzy's fault? Hard to say. If he introduced him to the stuff, then sure I guess partially. And you don't really want vets on your team who introduce young prospects to drugs.

That said, Vrana's also from Prague. Which is basically the party city of central Europe. Young people have been flocking their for the club and hard drug scene for the last 10 years or more. And he lives there. I wouldn't be surprised if he was introduced at a very young age, and it finally just spun out of control on him. And Kuzy is just is an easy scapegoat coincidence.

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1 hour ago, Walman6million said:

Well he scores close to a PPG every year. You can overlook a lot when a player does that consistently I think.

And remember Kuzy is just the one that got caught. Who knows what his actual habits are like. The Caps nor he, entered himself into the player rehab program after getting caught red handed. He may very well be just a casual user who only "parties" a few times a year, once a month, or only in the offseason. That wouldn't really bother me that much. I don't care what guys do outside of work - so long as it's in control and not affecting their work.

Vrana on the other hand appears to have some addiction issues with substances. Is that Kuzy's fault? Hard to say. If he introduced him to the stuff, then sure I guess partially. And you don't really want vets on your team who introduce young prospects to drugs.

That said, Vrana's also from Prague. Which is basically the party city of central Europe. Young people have been flocking their for the club and hard drug scene for the last 10 years or more. And he lives there. I wouldn't be surprised if he was introduced at a very young age, and it finally just spun out of control on him. And Kuzy is just is an easy scapegoat coincidence.

I'd imagine coke is SUPER common in the NHL. I recall hearing an interview with Jarrett Stoll a few years ago after he retired and he insinuated that a whole bunch of the LA Kings team that won those two cups were no strangers to coke. That said, I also think its probably generational too. Substance use rates amongst "zennials" are down compared to previous generations so maybe it's less common now than it was. I can imagine back in Bob Probert's day they were doing lines off the goalie's pads during intermission.

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12 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'd imagine coke is SUPER common in the NHL. I recall hearing an interview with Jarrett Stoll a few years ago after he retired and he insinuated that a whole bunch of the LA Kings team that won those two cups were no strangers to coke. That said, I also think its probably generational too. Substance use rates amongst "zennials" are down compared to previous generations so maybe it's less common now than it was. I can imagine back in Bob Probert's day they were doing lines off the goalie's pads during intermission.

Regulations relaxing on pot will help with this too. Many folks in many professions do coke because it's out of their system by Monday and they'll pass drug tests. 

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3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Regulations relaxing on pot will help with this too. Many folks in many professions do coke because it's out of their system by Monday and they'll pass drug tests. 

In theory pot should help with pill addictions too. Many folks (not just athletes) get addicted to pills after they begin using them for pain management. This is likely the case with Vrana (coke jokes aside) as he played for a full year with a bum shoulder before even getting the surgery. I was recovering from a broken ankle recently and I ate edibles when the pain was bad, and it seemed to help a lot. I can't exactly compare with opiates because I didn't take any of those, but the CBD in the weed was plenty strong enough to manage that pain. At some point I imagine opiates will be phased out for all but the most debilitating pain and be replaced by CBD oils and the like. Many athletes already use CBD oils and such as part of their muscle recovery program (particularly boxers and mma fighters).

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I'd imagine coke is SUPER common in the NHL. I recall hearing an interview with Jarrett Stoll a few years ago after he retired and he insinuated that a whole bunch of the LA Kings team that won those two cups were no strangers to coke. That said, I also think its probably generational too. Substance use rates amongst "zennials" are down compared to previous generations so maybe it's less common now than it was. I can imagine back in Bob Probert's day they were doing lines off the goalie's pads during intermission.

Cocaine among rich young people is SUPER common in general. Thats the target market for it. NHLers more than fit that mold. 

Stoll got busted with cocaine and MDMA if I recall. I wouldnt being surprised if guys like Vrana are abusing multiple things like pain killers and coke.

CBD doesnt do anything for me. I see people swear by it, but I would need opiates for any serious injury. Maybe depends on the person. 

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On 1/20/2023 at 2:08 PM, Walman6million said:

SY is gonna trade Larkin just to show his teeth to Raymond and Seider.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/redwings/2023/01/whats-the-most-likely-outcome-in-red-wings-dylan-larkin-contract-talks.html%3foutputType=amp

 

Im looking at this like this: SY offered 7.5 x 8.  Larkin's agent wants 9 x 8.  They will eventually settle on 8.25 x 8.  But SY will get the benefit of making sure Larkin doesnt have an injury through the end of the year that will impact his next season/career.  I think this is just good business by Stevie.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/redwings/2023/01/whats-the-most-likely-outcome-in-red-wings-dylan-larkin-contract-talks.html%3foutputType=amp

 

Im looking at this like this: SY offered 7.5 x 8.  Larkin's agent wants 9 x 8.  They will eventually settle on 8.25 x 8.  But SY will get the benefit of making sure Larkin doesnt have an injury through the end of the year that will impact his next season/career.  I think this is just good business by Stevie.

Yzermans original offer to Larkin was 8x8 it's now up to 8x8.5 per Darren Dreger So we shall see.

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3 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

Yzermans original offer to Larkin was 8x8 it's now up to 8x8.5 per Darren Dreger So we shall see.

Larkin's got Yzerman by the balls right now.  We literally have ZERO real talent in this organization at the center position other than Larkin.  ZERO.  He's the only guy that can play the entire ice surface at speed.  Our team is noticeably more offensive while he's on the ice.  If we don't get him signed, we're in a lot deeper s h i t than if we overpay him by a million.  This much I know.  Might as well just wrap him up last week of February and go into the deadline with a bullseye on Bo Horvat.  Vancouver will be looking for one of our top prospects (Edvinsson, Wallinder, Kasper - preferably Kasper) and a 1st.  Not sure if Yzerman will be willing to part with Kasper, though.  Copp has a modified no trade clause, so he will be able to put the kaibosh on a Vancouver trade.  If Yzerman can pull off a genius move and get Vancouver to sign and trade Horvat to 8x8 for Copp (half salary retained), Zadina, and 2023 first, that would be pretty fantastic.  

 

Horvat

Larkin

Kasper

Veleno

 

I like that down the middle.

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I'm not really sure I understand the attitude vis-a-vis Larkin around here. The guy's in the 90th percentile in almost every measurable analytic category, offense and defense. He was last year too. The only thing that has stopped him from being a 80-90 point center the last two years has been injuries. I could understand if the argument was "Larkin needs to be injured less", to which the answer might be to get another center to lighten his load. But I don't understand the "we're never going to win with Larkin" crowd. This guy is really really good. He has never played with a legit top line winger in his career and last year our 2C was Pius Suter. Pretty easy for defenses to key on the guy.

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12 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm not really sure I understand the attitude vis-a-vis Larkin around here. The guy's in the 90th percentile in almost every measurable analytic category, offense and defense. He was last year too. The only thing that has stopped him from being a 80-90 point center the last two years has been injuries. I could understand if the argument was "Larkin needs to be injured less", to which the answer might be to get another center to lighten his load. But I don't understand the "we're never going to win with Larkin" crowd. This guy is really really good. He has never played with a legit top line winger in his career and last year our 2C was Pius Suter. Pretty easy for defenses to key on the guy.

I agree with you on this.  The big problem with the Red Wings is that we don't have a wealth of centers that can skate like Larkin and play the minutes Larkin plays.  I would rate Larkin's offensive abilities at a 6/10, but his skating is SO GOOD that it allows him to create offensive results for the team.  Lucas Raymond is the only other guy that even comes close to the 5 on 5 effectiveness of Larkin.  We've seen flashes of this from Kubalik, Vrana, and Bertuzzi, but Larkin and Raymond are the only forwards we have that truly tilt the ice our way.  Veleno has looked spectacular as of late, but he's not going to step in as our 1C/2C and win us games.  Not saying he can't get there if he keeps progressing, but right now he's just a solid 3C/4C for us.  Copp has been good defensively and has a nice all around game, but he slots in as a 3C/4C guy like Veleno.  We need that 1A/1B center dynamic we had with Fedorov/Yzerman and Datsyuk/Zetterberg.  Hopefully we end up with Larkin at 8.5 mil and Horvat at 7.5 mil.  Those 2 guys at 16 mil for the next 8 years would be great.

 

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond

Kubalik-Horvat-Perron

Kasper-Copp-Berggren

Rasmussen-Veleno-Sundqvist

 

Seider-Edvinsson

Wallinder-Hronek

Walman-Lindstrom

Johansson

 

Husso

Cossa

 

This team goes somewhere.  

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I've been watching a bunch of the late games lately and I'm seeing tons of guys I've never really appreciated. One name on the list, Rasmus Andersson for the Flames. That guy is a f*cking horse. He's a beast all over the ice. I'm not even sure why I am posting it in this thread because Calgary would be insane to trade him.

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I secretly love this Calgary team. They're a bunch of badasses. Kadri is mean as hell, and borderline dirty. Coleman, Taffoli, and Mangiapane are essentially three Tyler Bertuzzis. I even enjoyed old man Lucic beating the piss out of Mathieu Olivier (who stood in there gave a few too). I love that they cheered for Johnny Gaudreau during his appreciation package on the jumbo screen and then booed him every single other time he touched the puck. This team rules.

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11 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I secretly love this Calgary team. They're a bunch of badasses. Kadri is mean as hell, and borderline dirty. Coleman, Taffoli, and Mangiapane are essentially three Tyler Bertuzzis. I even enjoyed old man Lucic beating the piss out of Mathieu Olivier (who stood in there gave a few too). I love that they cheered for Johnny Gaudreau during his appreciation package on the jumbo screen and then booed him every single other time he touched the puck. This team rules.

Flames are a fun team to watch...Too bad Markstrom fell apart in the playoffs against the Oilers of all teams.

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12 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I've been watching a bunch of the late games lately and I'm seeing tons of guys I've never really appreciated. One name on the list, Rasmus Andersson for the Flames. That guy is a f*cking horse. He's a beast all over the ice. I'm not even sure why I am posting it in this thread because Calgary would be insane to trade him.

you're making @F.Michael cream in his shorts.  This is word porn for him.

https://artflow.ai/gallery/6507f0cba0fc45c8a83602b4c153477f

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1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

According to Woodward Sports, Yzerman is not budging on his Larkin offer and will basically play the Stamkos game. Man if we lose Larkin for nothing because of Yzerman's ego...

Its not ego its being a smart gm. SY knows Larkin wants to be a Red Wing. Hes not going to another team leaving his home state family where hes played his whole career giving up captaincy being 1c etc. SYs smart to be playing hardball. Larkins the teams best player but hes not worth 9,5m imo get closer to 8 and its fair for both sides.

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21 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Its not ego its being a smart gm. SY knows Larkin wants to be a Red Wing. Hes not going to another team leaving his home state family where hes played his whole career giving up captaincy being 1c etc. SYs smart to be playing hardball. Larkins the teams best player but hes not worth 9,5m imo get closer to 8 and its fair for both sides.

SY is at 8.5 right now!  Dylan needs to step in and tell his agent he's good with that.

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3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

According to Woodward Sports, Yzerman is not budging on his Larkin offer and will basically play the Stamkos game. Man if we lose Larkin for nothing because of Yzerman's ego...

How would Woodward Sports know what Yzerman will or will not do, Outside of D Mac Woodward sports is run by a bunch of hacks who no nothing about hockey. The latest offer from Yzerman to Larkin according to Darren Dreger is 8 x $8,500,000 which is way more than enough for Larkin and it's right in his comparable ranges. Woodward sports is a joke most of them outside of Dmac are a bunch of idiots and they don't no a single thing of what Yzerman will or will not do.

Edited by diehardredwingsfan58

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4 hours ago, marcaractac said:

According to Woodward Sports, Yzerman is not budging on his Larkin offer and will basically play the Stamkos game. Man if we lose Larkin for nothing because of Yzerman's ego...

Stop spreading misinformation, I just watched the Woodward Sports episode in question, Under anytime did they ever say that Yzerman wouldn't budge. it wasn't even brought up at all.

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20 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I agree with you on this.  The big problem with the Red Wings is that we don't have a wealth of centers that can skate like Larkin and play the minutes Larkin plays.  I would rate Larkin's offensive abilities at a 6/10, but his skating is SO GOOD that it allows him to create offensive results for the team.  Lucas Raymond is the only other guy that even comes close to the 5 on 5 effectiveness of Larkin.  We've seen flashes of this from Kubalik, Vrana, and Bertuzzi, but Larkin and Raymond are the only forwards we have that truly tilt the ice our way.  Veleno has looked spectacular as of late, but he's not going to step in as our 1C/2C and win us games.  Not saying he can't get there if he keeps progressing, but right now he's just a solid 3C/4C for us.  Copp has been good defensively and has a nice all around game, but he slots in as a 3C/4C guy like Veleno.  We need that 1A/1B center dynamic we had with Fedorov/Yzerman and Datsyuk/Zetterberg.  Hopefully we end up with Larkin at 8.5 mil and Horvat at 7.5 mil.  Those 2 guys at 16 mil for the next 8 years would be great.

 

Vrana-Larkin-Raymond

Kubalik-Horvat-Perron

Kasper-Copp-Berggren

Rasmussen-Veleno-Sundqvist

 

Seider-Edvinsson

Wallinder-Hronek

Walman-Lindstrom

Johansson

 

Husso

Cossa

 

This team goes somewhere.  

Vrana? 

Isn't he permabanned from the team?  

18 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Lucic genuinely looks like Frankenstein on skates...kinda plays like him too I'd imagine.

We should get him for cheap.  Just use him in certain games against teams I don't like.  

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