2023 Offseason Thread

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

I want Foligno and Reaves.  I want to see the Red Wings punch people.  Especially Ottawa.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

10 hours ago, Walman6million said:

IDK if you noticed, but we didn't accomplish s*** this year. Do you mean to assert that we were, and would be, better off without these players?

U think this team is gutted by missing the combined 5 goals from Vrana and Bert? 

[Walman6million 250]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

U think this team is gutted by missing the combined 5 goals from Vrana and Bert? 

I think the team was gutted the moment Vrana went into rehab and bert hurt his hand yeah. And its worse now without Hronek and them completely. Whats your point?

Edited April 18, 2023 by Walman6million

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

On 4/17/2023 at 2:00 PM, Walman6million said:

Sounds like the Thrashers are coming back according to Weekes lol

Supposedly Atlanta is building a brand new Arena.

[Axl Foley 222]

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I want Foligno and Reaves.  I want to see the Red Wings punch people.  Especially Ottawa.

So you complain about lack of scoring and your solution is to sign 2 guys who can't even score 50 points in a season...combined.

7 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

U think this team is gutted by missing the combined 5 goals from Vrana and Bert? 

A healthy Vrana and Bert would absolutely be a boost to the offense.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

So you complain about lack of scoring and your solution is to sign 2 guys who can't even score 50 points in a season...combined.

A healthy Vrana and Bert would absolutely be a boost to the offense.

I didnt complain about scoring.  I always complain about strength training and team toughness.

[Axl Foley 222]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I didnt complain about scoring.  I always complain about strength training and team toughness.

you complain about everything and you know it.

[Walman6million 250]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I didnt complain about scoring.  I always complain about strength training and team toughness.

[Axl Foley 222]

I always thought it was the team that scored more that won. Silly me.

 

[Walman6million 250]

22 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

I always thought it was the team that scored more that won. Silly me.

 

Can't score goals if you don't wreck shop.

Idiot.

[Walman6million 250]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:17 PM, Walman6million said:

DCat or not this team is absolutely gutted again without Bertuzzi, Vrana, and Hronek.

Even if DCat was our big acquisition this summer this team would suck bad.

We are losing Erne and Suter, which is a start, but there are still way too many plug losers on this team.

Trade Zadina, Veleno, and Lindstrom while they still have some semblance of youthful value. Get anything for them. IDC. I'm tired of watching these absolute losers take up roster spots and minutes. Here's a thought, trade all 3 for the rights to DCat.

Killorn - Larkin - DeBrincat
Rasmussen - Copp - Raymond
Fabbri - Compher - Perron
Kubalik - Kasper - Berggren

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Mayfield
Maata - Chiarot

Husso
Ned

How much nicer does that look

Alright now that @The 91 of Ryans is done being an R-slur thinking we''re better off without Bertuzzi, Vrana, and Hronek...

We got some big shoes to fill, and very lil ammo in UFA to fill it with.

We basically have only 1 Dman that generates offense in Seider now. Mayfield, Severson, and Gudas would be nice, but none of these guys are going to give us the necessary secondary scoring. I do think we need to take a hard look at Klingberg. Even if it's short term high AAV.

We need some significant impact wingers as well. We can't bank on the fact that Ray and Ras are going to take major steps forward as soon as next year. DCat is one option maybe. But we likely need more than that for this team to take forward steps.

With this UFA class, I gotta think SY is going to make some trades. I just hope Veleno, Zadina, and Lindstrom are some of the pieces leaving us. Let them be lackluster for someone else.

 

[Walman6million 250]

Reluctantly listening to the winged wheel podcast (god I hate those xanxed out yawns) where they interview Bultman. And I have to agree with Bultman. He explains that the tank for #1 overall period has passed us, and we're not getting back to it now. And that the Yzerplan has gone well, but not 100% what SY thought it would be. Now we need to move to plan B and augment the plan. Which means a trade or trades. Partly because UFA is dim for us at this point.

Buttman and I seem to agree, SY is about to get aggressive.

DCat? Kyle Connor? I think it's time.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

10 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Alright now that @The 91 of Ryans is done being an R-slur thinking we''re better off without Bertuzzi, Vrana, and Hronek...

We got some big shoes to fill, and very lil ammo in UFA to fill it with.

We basically have only 1 Dman that generates offense in Seider now. Mayfield, Severson, and Gudas would be nice, but none of these guys are going to give us the necessary secondary scoring. I do think we need to take a hard look at Klingberg. Even if it's short term high AAV.

We need some significant impact wingers as well. We can't bank on the fact that Ray and Ras are going to take major steps forward as soon as next year. DCat is one option maybe. But we likely need more than that for this team to take forward steps.

With this UFA class, I gotta think SY is going to make some trades. I just hope Veleno, Zadina, and Lindstrom are some of the pieces leaving us. Let them be lackluster for someone else.

 

1. Bite me

2. I wasn’t trying to say this team didn’t need the goal scoring that a healthy and mentally stable duo of Bert and Vrana could provide. I was trying to say that this team held their own for most of the season without production from either player and it was the loss of Rasmussen that caused the nose dive that began with those Ottawa games

3. Speaking of Ottawa. I clearly remember a no-look neutral zone PP drop pass by Hronek that led to a Sens shorty at a very crucial time in one of those games. No way Yzerman ever gives a loser like that 6M a year. Also I  think a full season of levelled-up Wallman and a decent rookie campaign from Edvinsson can make up for Hronek’s production. Without the dumbness. 
 

edit: Klingberg on a sheltered 3rd pairing with Maatta might work. But that guy is even dumber than Hronek. So I hesitate. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by The 91 of Ryans

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

9 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Reluctantly listening to the winged wheel podcast (god I hate those xanxed out yawns) where they interview Bultman. And I have to agree with Bultman. He explains that the tank for #1 overall period has passed us, and we're not getting back to it now. And that the Yzerplan has gone well, but not 100% what SY thought it would be. Now we need to move to plan B and augment the plan. Which means a trade or trades. Partly because UFA is dim for us at this point.

Buttman and I seem to agree, SY is about to get aggressive.

DCat? Kyle Connor? I think it's time.

Would Albert Jo + Bergrren + NYI 23 1st + BOS 24 1st get a Connor deal done? 
 

There will be trades for sure though. Have to think there’s no way Yzerman makes all EIGHT 1st and 2nd round picks in the next two drafts. Especially considering there’s prob more picks coming if guys like Perron and Kubalik are shopped as rentals in Feb/March. 

 

[Walman6million 250]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

1. Bite me

2. I wasn’t trying to say this team didn’t need the goal scoring that a healthy and mentally stable duo of Bert and Vrana could provide. I was trying to say that this team held their own for most of the season without production from either player and it was the loss of Rasmussen that caused the nose dive that began with those Ottawa games

3. Speaking of Ottawa. I clearly remember a no-look neutral zone PP drop pass by Hronek that led to a Sens shorty at a very crucial time in one of those games. No way Yzerman ever gives a loser like that 6M a year. Also I  think a full season of levelled-up Wallman and a decent rookie campaign from Edvinsson can make up for Hronek’s production. Without the dumbness. 
 

edit: Klingberg on a sheltered 3rd pairing with Maatta might work. But that guy is even dumber than Hronek. So I hesitate. 

1. No

2. Nah you were trying to be a cock boy about Vrana and Tuzzi being insignificant. Missing those two players for basically the entire season doomed us way more than missing Ras against Ottawa did. And you know it.

3. Your hatred for Hronek is well documented. Im not in love with the guy either, but his absence is still a major loss, dumb passes now and then or not. He was even much better than Seider for good chunks of the season this year. I don't think Walman is going to ever be more than a big shot in the O zone. Gambling on Eddogg next year is what it is. A gamble. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Offensively, there's no way that you can deny that having a healthy Bert and Vrana (and I'd add Fabbri too) to the lineup would not have significantly changed the outlook of the season. Paticularly when you remember how many games that guys like Luff and Czarnik and Zadina and Veleno and Erne played. Likewise, I think it's valid to note that the team played their asses off despite not icing anything close to it's best lineup and hung around the playoff picture (and even had a brief wildcard spot) without those guys in the lineup. If anything that seems to suggest we're closer than many folks think. With all that said, I think SY HAS to try and replace some of the lost offense in the offseason. Some of that is going to come from internal growth for sure. I expect better production from Kubalik, Fabbri, and Berggren next year for sure, along with the addition of Kasper. But if you can land a high-end offensive contributor like Debrincat I think you can't really sleep on the job. I think he would be particularly effective with Copp (who is an assist machine).

Conversely, I think many of the team's defensive woes can be attributed to Lalonde. He kept Chiarot-Seider together way too long. He also broke up a Maatta-Hronek pairing that was REALLY effective and didn't let Maatta sniff the top four again until after the trade deadline. This is not a "hindsight" situation either. Both of those things were obviously to even casual fans at the time. If, hypothetically, we played 15(ish) more games with Walman-Sedier and Maatta-Hronek as the top four I think our fortunes would have been quite different as well. Because of our depth on defense I'm more okay standing pat or making smaller moves there. Maybe you don't replace Hronek's offense completely next year, but longer term you'd expect a defense that sees growth from Walman, Edvinsson promoted, and Chiarot playing on the right side(along with addition by subtraction via the losses of Hagg, Lindstrom) to match or eclipse this season's scoring but with better defensive results. So, offseason plan:

-Trade for Debrincat, re-sign Suter

-Sign Scott Mayfield

 

Kubalik-Larkin-Raymond

Ras-Copp-Debrincat

Berggren-Kasper-Perron

Fabbri-Veleno-Suter

Zadina

 

Walman-Seider

Edvinsson-Mayfield

Maatta-Chiarot

 

Note: I highlighted Kubalik on the top line for two reasons. Ideally he's not a long term top line guy, but his scoring rates did increase dramatically when he played with Larkin, he's a legitimate shooting threat on that line opposite a better passer in Raymond, and because it would pump up his value prior to the trade deadline if things fall apart and we have to sell.

 

[Walman6million 250]

31 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Offensively, there's no way that you can deny that having a healthy Bert and Vrana (and I'd add Fabbri too) to the lineup would not have significantly changed the outlook of the season. Paticularly when you remember how many games that guys like Luff and Czarnik and Zadina and Veleno and Erne played. Likewise, I think it's valid to note that the team played their asses off despite not icing anything close to it's best lineup and hung around the playoff picture (and even had a brief wildcard spot) without those guys in the lineup. If anything that seems to suggest we're closer than many folks think. With all that said, I think SY HAS to try and replace some of the lost offense in the offseason. Some of that is going to come from internal growth for sure. I expect better production from Kubalik, Fabbri, and Berggren next year for sure, along with the addition of Kasper. But if you can land a high-end offensive contributor like Debrincat I think you can't really sleep on the job. I think he would be particularly effective with Copp (who is an assist machine).

Conversely, I think many of the team's defensive woes can be attributed to Lalonde. He kept Chiarot-Seider together way too long. He also broke up a Maatta-Hronek pairing that was REALLY effective and didn't let Maatta sniff the top four again until after the trade deadline. This is not a "hindsight" situation either. Both of those things were obviously to even casual fans at the time. If, hypothetically, we played 15(ish) more games with Walman-Sedier and Maatta-Hronek as the top four I think our fortunes would have been quite different as well. Because of our depth on defense I'm more okay standing pat or making smaller moves there. Maybe you don't replace Hronek's offense completely next year, but longer term you'd expect a defense that sees growth from Walman, Edvinsson promoted, and Chiarot playing on the right side(along with addition by subtraction via the losses of Hagg, Lindstrom) to match or eclipse this season's scoring but with better defensive results. So, offseason plan:

-Trade for Debrincat, re-sign Suter

-Sign Scott Mayfield

 

Kubalik-Larkin-Raymond

Ras-Copp-Debrincat

Berggren-Kasper-Perron

Fabbri-Veleno-Suter

Zadina

 

Walman-Seider

Edvinsson-Mayfield

Maatta-Chiarot

 

Note: I highlighted Kubalik on the top line for two reasons. Ideally he's not a long term top line guy, but his scoring rates did increase dramatically when he played with Larkin, he's a legitimate shooting threat on that line opposite a better passer in Raymond, and because it would pump up his value prior to the trade deadline if things fall apart and we have to sell.

 

KUBA - LARKIN - PERRON SHOULD BE THE TOP LINE THE ENTIRE SEASON NEXT YEAR. LOLande does not take enough heat for his bizzaro D pairings and for seperating those forwards. Its demonstrably evident that Kuba plays really well with, and scores A LOT, with Larkin and Perron. This will also serve to boost Kuba and Perrons trade value like you say. If Derek doesnt staple those 3 to each other im gonna put a fist through the TV. Its been a while since we had 3 forwards with this much obvious chemistry.

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

KUBA - LARKIN - PERRON SHOULD BE THE TOP LINE THE ENTIRE SEASON NEXT YEAR. LOLande does not take enough heat for his bizzaro D pairings and for seperating those forwards. Its demonstrably evident that Kuba plays really well with, and scores A LOT, with Larkin and Perron. This will also serve to boost Kuba and Perrons trade value like you say. If Derek doesnt staple those 3 to each other im gonna put a fist through the TV. Its been a while since we had 3 forwards with this much obvious chemistry.

In general I agree with you. But I'm not putting Perron there over Raymond. Kubalik was on a heater for the first 20 game or so and most of that was with Larkin and Raymond. I'm not gonna cry about it either way, but Perron isn't good at 5on5 any more and I'd rather a quality even strength winger have that third spot on the top line.

[Walman6million 250]

Im okay with Mayfield/Severson/Gudas. But what if Maata can do for Klingberg what he did for Hronek?

Im almost certain we wont get Dcat and our forward addition is gonna be Killorn.

SY will keep his assets and sign more "proven winners" to teach the pups.

Kubalik - Larkin - Perron

Killorn - Copp - Raymond

Fabbri - Ras - Berggren

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

In general I agree with you. But I'm not putting Perron there over Raymond. Kubalik was on a heater for the first 20 game or so and most of that was with Larkin and Raymond. I'm not gonna cry about it either way, but Perron isn't good at 5on5 any more and I'd rather a quality even strength winger have that third spot on the top line.

Idk man if you go run the numbers Perron loves to feed Kubalik like Raymond hasnt done. 

Im willing to bet way more of those kuba goals came off perrons stick in that 20 game heater

[Axl Foley 222]

A Berggren-Copp-Perron line combo SHOULD be effective.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:09 PM, Walman6million said:

Kubalik - Larkin - Perron

Killorn - Copp - Raymond

Fabbri - Ras - Berggren

I thought we all agreed on Ras being a winger going forward?

[Akakabuto 1,750]

I'm convinced Lalonde wants to add some beef to this lineup

Killorn-Larkin-Raymond
Ras-Copp-Perron
Berggren-Kasper-Watson
Kubalik-Veleno-Reaves
Fabbri

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-Mayfield
Maatta-Chiarot

Edited April 22, 2023 by Akakabuto

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Ive said it before, but this team has absolutely ZERO OFF-ICE DISCIPLINE.  Theyre all s h i t t i n g the bed during the starts of the regular season because theyre all f u c k i n g off during the off season. Want to know why a Calder trophy winner has a skphmore slump?  because fro. age 19 to age 21, he stays 203 lbs despite having the ability to add 12 lbs of muscle with a good trainer and some hard work.  Yzerman is a good HOCKEY mind, but he's an imbecile when it comes to hiring non-hockey people.  Harbaugh is the opposite.  He's an imbecile as a coach.  But he's an absolute genius off gthe field.  First thing he did at MI was rebuild the training facilities and start recruiting like crazy.  5 years later, the players look like Alabama and Georgia's players instead of like Western Michigan's.  Yzerman needs to get nutritionists and strength training people who know how to make athletes thicker and more explosive.  We have a bunch of soft bodies sissies right now.  I wish Tkachuk would have punched Seider's face in until his orbital bones and jaw were broken.  The front office just isnt getting the message.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jonas Mahonas

[Walman6million 250]

10 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

I'm convinced Lalonde wants to add some beef to this lineup

Killorn-Larkin-Raymond
Ras-Copp-Perron
Berggren-Kasper-Watson
Kubalik-Veleno-Reaves
Fabbri

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-Mayfield
Maatta-Chiarot

No

Killorn ($4.5 x 3) - Larkin - Raymond
Ras - Copp - Perron
Fabbri - Kasper - Berggren
Engvall ($2.5 x 4)- Veleno ($1 x 1) - Kubalik
Zadina

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Chiarot
Maata - Gudas ($2 x 2)
Lindstrom ($1 x 1)

Husso
Andersen ($3 x 2)

This lineup leaves us with just about $6 million in cap space, or 3 rookie contracts.

We shed $11 from Kubalik, Perron, Veleno, and Lindstrom at the deadline next year. And an additional $2.5 from Vrana's contract at end of year. Leaving us with $17.5 to re-sign Seider, Raymond, Berggren, and Ras next year. 

You then fully commit to Ras and bridge Seider, Raymond, and Berggren.

Seider - $7 x 3
Ras - $4 x 4
Raymond $4 x 3
Beggren $2 x 2

After that we'll shed Maata, Zadina, Fabbri, and Husso, and in theory Gudas and Andersen as well. Freeing up $16 mil and making us a top loaded team with young hot shot CHEAP goalies.

Mazur - Larkin - Raymond
Ras - Kasper - Berggren
Hanas - Copp - Soderblom
Engvall, - Lombardi - James

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Chiarot
Wallinder - McIsaac

Cossa
Gylander
 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Walman6million

[Akakabuto 1,750]

3 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Zadina

I left Zadina completely off my line-up. That means its better than yours.