5/7 - Draft Lottery GDT - Detroit v The Bettman - 8PM EST

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 minute ago, Walman6million said:

Sex scandal and Toews and Kane are gone. Try to keep up. The landscape has drastically changed.

Funny that you didn't mention this before when you were making your first erroneous argument re; The Bulls. It's almost like you're just throwing things that the wall and seeing what sticks.

But I'll play along. If fans were actually upset about the scandal (they aren't), then wouldn't cleaning house and getting rid of Toews and Kane (along with Quenneville and Bowman) actually make fans happier? Make them more inclined to give the team a fresh start?

Conversely, if Toews and Kane were such big draws and the league was willing to stack the deck in Chicago's favor, wouldn't they have done so any of the last three years so that the organization could leverage all that Toews and Kane star power? They could have gifted them top two picks in any of the last THREE drafts BEFORE the Blackhawks traded Dach and Debrincat and Kane. Before Toews retired. Hell, if they're rigging the thing they could have done it in ALL THREE drafts. They basically did something similar for Edmonton and the Rangers right?

[Dabura 12,207]

I don't necessarily buy that it's rigged, but I also don't think it's crazy to acknowledge that there's a fundamental human truth behind the Ring of Gyges principle.

"But why do it? What's in it for the league? It'd make sense if they rewarded a perpetually struggling franchise like the Coyotes, but they're not doing that. So what are they doing, then?"

Well, I suppose the argument is that making sure the solid markets stay solid gives the league a stable foundation to work with; if your solid markets are going to continue to rake in money, then you've got a financial safety net which will offset any potential losses. And that allows you to "grow the game."

Just for s***s and giggles (again, I'm not really arguing for either side here), here are the past ten winners:

2013
Colorado

2014
Florida

2015
Edmonton

2016
Toronto

2017
New Jersey

2018
Buffalo

2019
New Jersey

2020
New York Rangers

2021
Buffalo

2022
Montreal

2023
Chicago

Make of that what you will.

[kipwinger 8,522]

Every team in the league has representatives in the room when the lottery takes place. What reason would they have to allow the league to rig the lottery against them and in favor of their competitors?

"Sure Gary, go ahead and screw our team over in the draft year after year. I definitely don't mind because...reasons?", says Chris Ilitch (of the the most powerful and well respected owners of one of the most profitable organizations in the league).

[Walman6million 250]

26 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Funny that you didn't mention this before when you were making your first erroneous argument re; The Bulls. It's almost like you're just throwing things that the wall and seeing what sticks.

But I'll play along. If fans were actually upset about the scandal (they aren't), then wouldn't cleaning house and getting rid of Toews and Kane (along with Quenneville and Bowman) actually make fans happier? Make them more inclined to give the team a fresh start?

Conversely, if Toews and Kane were such big draws and the league was willing to stack the deck in Chicago's favor, wouldn't they have done so any of the last three years so that the organization could leverage all that Toews and Kane star power? They could have gifted them top two picks in any of the last THREE drafts BEFORE the Blackhawks traded Dach and Debrincat and Kane. Before Toews retired. Hell, if they're rigging the thing they could have done it in ALL THREE drafts. They basically did something similar for Edmonton and the Rangers right?

Yes i did mention it earlier. Read the forum b4 posting.

I mentioned the Bulls offhand. No idea if theyre good or not. I dont follow basketball.

Bowman wasnt getting rid of Toews and Kane. Thats changed since Davidson and the sex scandal. Again, keep up.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Kip, youre way off here.  Watch the video.  Every team in the league did NOT have a rep in the room.  And nobody in the room had ever been seen before besides Gary Betman.  And the Chicago Blackhawks guy in the room didnt get excited when the last ball was called out.  And the other teams guys in the room didnt gasp when the last ball was called out.  Thats cuz there was only one guy with a magic sheet.  And he whispered "Chicago" for some stupid reason.  And the sum of the balls ended up being 31, which one of the MOST LIKELY sums statistically for a 4 ball pull from 1 to 14 after eliminating the 24 ways 11,12,13,14 could be pulled from from the accepted pool.  Sums of 10 to 49 being the least likely, sums of 29 and 30 being the most likely with 29.5 being the mean over an infinite amount of draws.  This draft lottery is RIGGED.  And it matters.  If it's rigged, it could mean that we never had a chance in any of the previous years.  This shouldnt just be an oh well situation.  It hurts the integrity of the sport and fans of teams like ours that have been shoved down draft positions continually should be upset.

  

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

This fills me with feelings, some good and some bad:

https://archive.is/g6Ofb

Thought the same thing. Two teams as tied in the standings as you could possibly be.  Wash gets the nod with some voodoo tiebreaker rule and take Michkov. I think I’ll kill myself 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Thought the same thing. Two teams as tied in the standings as you could possibly be.  Wash gets the nod with some voodoo tiebreaker rule and take Michkov. I think I’ll kill myself 

Anybody know anything about Willander?  Seems like word is out on Reinbacher and he willbe long gone by pick 9.  

[Walman6million 250]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Kip, youre way off here.  Watch the video.  Every team in the league did NOT have a rep in the room.  And nobody in the room had ever been seen before besides Gary Betman.  And the Chicago Blackhawks guy in the room didnt get excited when the last ball was called out.  And the other teams guys in the room didnt gasp when the last ball was called out.  Thats cuz there was only one guy with a magic sheet.  And he whispered "Chicago" for some stupid reason.  And the sum of the balls ended up being 31, which one of the MOST LIKELY sums statistically for a 4 ball pull from 1 to 14 after eliminating the 24 ways 11,12,13,14 could be pulled from from the accepted pool.  Sums of 10 to 49 being the least likely, sums of 29 and 30 being the most likely with 29.5 being the mean over an infinite amount of draws.  This draft lottery is RIGGED.  And it matters.  If it's rigged, it could mean that we never had a chance in any of the previous years.  This shouldnt just be an oh well situation.  It hurts the integrity of the sport and fans of teams like ours that have been shoved down draft positions continually should be upset.

  

Those ball combos were the most rigged thing ive ever seen. "Okay we'll show you the ball pulling, but we wont tell u what it means, well just say that combo means chicago." Ud have to be mentally damaged not to see how rigged this is.

I also love the end of the video. Gary tells the two (thats right kip only 2 team reps were in the room, not 32) team reps and 3 reporters not to leave the room or share the results with anyone until its broadcasted. But b4 its even revealed Kevin Weekes (who was not in that room) announces the result. 

Either the NHL is shockingly inept, or they are predetermining draft order. These arent stupid ppl. Its rigged.

[Walman6million 250]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Funny that you didn't mention this before when you were making your first erroneous argument re; The Bulls. It's almost like you're just throwing things that the wall and seeing what sticks.

But I'll play along. If fans were actually upset about the scandal (they aren't), then wouldn't cleaning house and getting rid of Toews and Kane (along with Quenneville and Bowman) actually make fans happier? Make them more inclined to give the team a fresh start?

Conversely, if Toews and Kane were such big draws and the league was willing to stack the deck in Chicago's favor, wouldn't they have done so any of the last three years so that the organization could leverage all that Toews and Kane star power? They could have gifted them top two picks in any of the last THREE drafts BEFORE the Blackhawks traded Dach and Debrincat and Kane. Before Toews retired. Hell, if they're rigging the thing they could have done it in ALL THREE drafts. They basically did something similar for Edmonton and the Rangers right?

This is how I know youre either completely disconnected, or trolling.

Ive never seen 31 teams so united over hatred of one team. The Hawks win has reopened that sex scandal wound in a big way. Its honestly shocking how many NHL fans are still pissed at the Hawks. The majority absolutely care, and still care.

[mackel 681]

1 hour ago, Walman6million said:

Those ball combos were the most rigged thing ive ever seen. "Okay we'll show you the ball pulling, but we wont tell u what it means, well just say that combo means chicago." Ud have to be mentally damaged not to see how rigged this is.

I also love the end of the video. Gary tells the two (thats right kip only 2 team reps were in the room, not 32) team reps and 3 reporters not to leave the room or share the results with anyone until its broadcasted. But b4 its even revealed Kevin Weekes (who was not in that room) announces the result. 

Either the NHL is shockingly inept, or they are predetermining draft order. These arent stupid ppl. Its rigged.

This 1 billion percent.   It's easy to fix when nobody knows what the numbers mean, how they're assigned and what the target value is.  You can do a magic trick in front of people and they are usually fooled or fool themselves unless the know the gimmick. 

[Walman6million 250]

6 minutes ago, mackel said:

This 1 billion percent.   It's easy to fix when nobody knows what the numbers mean, how they're assigned and what the target value is.  You can do a magic trick in front of people and they are usually fooled or fool themselves unless the know the gimmick. 

I was like - great, theyre finally gonna put my mind at ease and show the process - only to obscure it even more. Honestly, it makes me even more convinced it's rigged. Cause they're hoping enough sub 80 iq fans will just accept it and convince everyone to move on. But anyone with a half a brain sees they actually revealed nothing at all.

Makes me lose interest in the sport honestly knowing Gary is dictating results to a high degree.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Walman6million

[mackel 681]

21 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

I was like - great, theyre finally gonna put my mind at ease and show the process - only to obscure it even more. Honestly, it makes me even more convinced it's rigged. Cause they're hoping enough sub 80 iq fans will just accept it and convince everyone to move on. But anyone with a half a brain sees they actually revealed nothing at all.

Makes me lose interest in the sport honestly knowing Gary is dictating results to a high degree.

Well according to Elliott in 32 thoughts team personnel and players league wide think the lottery was rigged.

[Walman6million 250]

6 minutes ago, mackel said:

Well according to Elliott in 32 thoughts team personnel and players league wide think the lottery was rigged.

Gotta love our commie friends in @kipwinger and @The 91 of Ryans . The world is screwing them with capitalism, but when the NHL behaves the same way how dare we suggest their bias. It's all fair.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Those ball combos were the most rigged thing ive ever seen. "Okay we'll show you the ball pulling, but we wont tell u what it means, well just say that combo means chicago." Ud have to be mentally damaged not to see how rigged this is.

I also love the end of the video. Gary tells the two (thats right kip only 2 team reps were in the room, not 32) team reps and 3 reporters not to leave the room or share the results with anyone until its broadcasted. But b4 its even revealed Kevin Weekes (who was not in that room) announces the result. 

Either the NHL is shockingly inept, or they are predetermining draft order. These arent stupid ppl. Its rigged.

[Walman6million 250]

Just now, F.Michael said:

fair and unbiased

[Dabura 12,207]

4 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Thought the same thing. Two teams as tied in the standings as you could possibly be.  Wash gets the nod with some voodoo tiebreaker rule and take Michkov. I think I’ll kill myself 

 

[Axl Foley 222]

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

I don't necessarily buy that it's rigged, but I also don't think it's crazy to acknowledge that there's a fundamental human truth behind the Ring of Gyges principle.

"But why do it? What's in it for the league? It'd make sense if they rewarded a perpetually struggling franchise like the Coyotes, but they're not doing that. So what are they doing, then?"

Well, I suppose the argument is that making sure the solid markets stay solid gives the league a stable foundation to work with; if your solid markets are going to continue to rake in money, then you've got a financial safety net which will offset any potential losses. And that allows you to "grow the game."

Just for s***s and giggles (again, I'm not really arguing for either side here), here are the past ten winners:

2013
Colorado

2014
Florida

2015
Edmonton

2016
Toronto

2017
New Jersey

2018
Buffalo

2019
New Jersey

2020
New York Rangers

2021
Buffalo

2022
Montreal

2023
Chicago

Make of that what you will.

completely random

[Axl Foley 222]

The 3rd worst team won the 1st pick. The worst team got 2nd pick. The 2nd worst team got 3rd pick. How is that rigged exactly?

[marcaractac 3,963]

10 hours ago, Walman6million said:

This is how I know youre either completely disconnected, or trolling.

Ive never seen 31 teams so united over hatred of one team. The Hawks win has reopened that sex scandal wound in a big way. Its honestly shocking how many NHL fans are still pissed at the Hawks. The majority absolutely care, and still care.

Remember how Arizona lost a first-rounder because they had their own little combine for prospects?

Remember how New Jersey lost a first-rounder because they signed Kovalchuk to a contract that was well within the rules of the CBA but the league decided to cry foul?

Yet the team who covers up sexual assault for 10 years gets barely a slap on the wrist. Clown league. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

10 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Those ball combos were the most rigged thing ive ever seen. "Okay we'll show you the ball pulling, but we wont tell u what it means, well just say that combo means chicago." Ud have to be mentally damaged not to see how rigged this is.

I also love the end of the video. Gary tells the two (thats right kip only 2 team reps were in the room, not 32) team reps and 3 reporters not to leave the room or share the results with anyone until its broadcasted. But b4 its even revealed Kevin Weekes (who was not in that room) announces the result. 

Either the NHL is shockingly inept, or they are predetermining draft order. These arent stupid ppl. Its rigged.

Ok, so I totally misunderstood the ball draw.  I was thinking order of balls was important, and its not.  Its just teams percentage chance of pick X number of 4 ball combos (1,000) = how many combos each team gets.  So the statistics argument cannot prove the lottery is rigged.  And so we are only left with the following:

Why is Betman doing the newspaper thing at the beginning?  Why does he have to provide an "Im not lying" statement right at the start?

Why is the sheet with the combos not made available to all before the balls are selected and the balls selected a live event?

Of intetest - When Betman introduces the individuals, you can see the faces of 2 of their watches very clearly.  I cant make out the times on them from my phone.  Can anyone else see them clearly and verify the time Betman has given is acurate?  Would be interesting if both of them read 10:30 and Betman lied about the recording time.

 

[Rick D 350]

17 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Columbus has the 2nd largest population amongst midwest cities (behind Chicago) and the largest population growth according to the US Census Bureau. However, they do not have the largest "metro area", which is what I previously said. My mistake. I think my original point is more than valid though.

 

If the league cared about census or largest metro area Houston would have had a team decades ago, before Dallas even. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

35 minutes ago, Rick D said:

If the league cared about census or largest metro area Houston would have had a team decades ago, before Dallas even. 

yup, 2nd behind phoenix/mesa in population.  Houston Hockey Nuts.  The fans would love it.

 

You guys are nuts!

 

Yah, we're nuts!

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 hour ago, Rick D said:

If the league cared about census or largest metro area Houston would have had a team decades ago, before Dallas even. 

The NHL has expanded dramatically under Bettman. If you think the size of the city isn't an important consideration I don't know what to tell you.

[Scottgaf 0]

I don't think its rigged,  but do not get why the nhl and nba won't televise the lottery draw.

It would quickly put an end to these discussions. 

[TLGTrico 624]

12 minutes ago, Scottgaf said:

I don't think its rigged,  but do not get why the nhl and nba won't televise the lottery draw.

It would quickly put an end to these discussions. 

Doesn't matter if they televised or not.  They would also have to publicly release all the number combinations and what teams they belong to