Red Wings 2024-25 Season Catch All

[kipwinger 8,701]

I'm starting this thread with the purpose of having someplace to discuss the team's season in overview. I want to leave the GDT (if we're still doing that) for game by game commentary. But this, I hope, will allow us to contextualize our season. We can compare what we are saying at game 45 to what we were saying at game 15 and see what's changing as the season plays out.

And the main thing I want to start with is the play of the kids. Much has been made of Lalonde's coaching, and a lot of the criticism is deserved, but since early in the season he's been giving a lot of big, important, minutes to Edvinsson, Kasper, and Berggren. Less so for Johansson, but the Maatta trade should change that a bit. And from a fan standpoint it's hard to be mad at the results. These guys aren't playing like superstars (although I'd argue Edvinsson is close already), but they've been really really good. Kasper is still a long way off from turning 21 and he's out there taking faceoffs (and winning them) against Syndey Crosby. Berggren has been making things happen all over the ice, but particularly in the offensive zone where his stats don't really tell the story of how good he's been at creating scoring opportunities for the Wings. And then there's Edvinsson. This guy is unreal. Watch how many plays he kills in the defensive zone with a simple poke check (his reach is insane) or by simply pinning his weight into a forward along the boards. He's got two fewer points than Seider (without powerplay time) and he's shouldering the same defensive matchups at even strength. He's still got things to learn (like not taking late penalties) but it's beginning to look like we've got another of the top young defenders in the league. And importantly, he's a defender that should be able to hang with bigger, tougher, playoff-type teams.

If Lalonde really is coaching for the future, then by mid-season I'd like to see:

1. Marco's line seeing their ice time start creeping up at even strength (they're currently our 2nd best forward line)

2. Berggren getting top powerplay looks when guys like Kane, Raymond, Dcat, deal with injuries.

3. Edvinsson taking over the 2nd powerplay unit (Seider to the 1st)

4. Johansson as an everyday 3rd pair defender.

[kipwinger 8,701]

This is from Max Bultman's article today in The Athletic:

"Edvinsson has always had the pedigree. He was the No. 6 pick in the 2021 NHL Draft, just as Seider had been two years prior. In that sense, maybe it seems obvious the two would partner to take Detroit’s toughest minutes.

But you don’t need to look any further than Seider to see how challenging that can be early in a young player’s career. In a similar workload last season, Seider handled his role against elite-quality competition, but he mostly had to weather the storm against that nightly onslaught. Advanced metrics don’t tell the whole story, but Detroit nonetheless conceded more goals and expected goals than it generated with Seider on the ice at five-on-five last season. This year, next to Edvinsson? The two entered Wednesday’s game with a 61 percent five-on-five expected goals share — an elite number that is staggering given their workload. Their actual goals share was even better."

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

This is from Max Bultman's article today in The Athletic:

"Edvinsson has always had the pedigree. He was the No. 6 pick in the 2021 NHL Draft, just as Seider had been two years prior. In that sense, maybe it seems obvious the two would partner to take Detroit’s toughest minutes.

But you don’t need to look any further than Seider to see how challenging that can be early in a young player’s career. In a similar workload last season, Seider handled his role against elite-quality competition, but he mostly had to weather the storm against that nightly onslaught. Advanced metrics don’t tell the whole story, but Detroit nonetheless conceded more goals and expected goals than it generated with Seider on the ice at five-on-five last season. This year, next to Edvinsson? The two entered Wednesday’s game with a 61 percent five-on-five expected goals share — an elite number that is staggering given their workload. Their actual goals share was even better."

This is the nice way of explaining the Sex Toys effect.  Seider ahould never have had to play with Butt Plug after being sentence to that first year of crap.  They brought Edvinsson up one year too late.  These guys are the best 1st pair in the league imo.

[kipwinger 8,701]

14 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

This is the nice way of explaining the Sex Toys effect.  Seider ahould never have had to play with Butt Plug after being sentence to that first year of crap.  They brought Edvinsson up one year too late.  These guys are the best 1st pair in the league imo.

Yeah, I definitely agree that our defense group is really bad. But I think the top pair’s success is more than that. I think it’s a testament to HOW Seider and Edvinsson play. Give Seider an elite, but not defensively responsible, partner (think Quinn Hughes type player) and I don’t think they have the same effect. They’d score but they wouldn’t be able to defend against top talent. That’s the winning recipe here. We have seen it many times already this season, Edvinsson is a really difficult guy for opposition forwards to deal with. Add ASP and Cossa to the back end and it’s clear what the strength of this team is going to be in a year or two. 

Edited November 14, 2024 by kipwinger

[LeftWinger 5,075]

Just some info, Soderblom is in his last season of waiver exemptions. 

[kipwinger 8,701]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Just some info, Soderblom is in his last season of waiver exemptions. 

This is a huge season for Sodorblom and so far he’s been really blah for GR. He better pick it up soon or he’ll be back in the SHL this time next season. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, I definitely agree that our defense group is really bad. But I think the top pair’s success is more than that. I think it’s a testament to HOW Seider and Edvinsson play. Give Seider an elite, but not defensively responsible, partner (think Quinn Hughes type player) and I don’t think they have the same effect. They’d score but they wouldn’t be able to defend against top talent. That’s the winning recipe here. We have seen it many times already this season, Edvinsson is a really difficult guy for opposition forwards to deal with. Add ASP and Cossa to the back end and it’s clear what the strength of this team is going to be in a year or two. 

Its NOT really bad, tho.  Thats the VERY SAD thing.  It's horribly mismanaged.  You play Edvinsson-Seider, Maatta-Holl, Johansson-ASP, Wallinder from game 1, we round out to rock solid by playoff time.  Instead of Motte, let Chiarot take 12th man duties.  The SCAM and Dycknose have crippled this team with the Sex Toys.  It's sad that Seider has to let the SCAM and Dycknose know TWICE that he's being hindered by Chiarot.  I saw it 25 games in Chiarot's first year.  Until those guys are out of the lineup, we stand ZERO chance against a good opponent.

[Rick D 375]

18 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

  Until those guys are out of the lineup, we stand ZERO chance against a good opponent.

It should be clear to the management that we need to make significant moves to improve our defense. Our players that you refer to as "The Neutered" along with the D you mentioned in the GR thread are hopefully being shopped to make these improvements. 

We cant keep picking up mediocre players and expecting them to have a profound impact on our roster. 

Hopefully these moves come sooner than later, some of these "core" players aren't getting any younger. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

2 hours ago, Rick D said:

It should be clear to the management that we need to make significant moves to improve our defense. Our players that you refer to as "The Neutered" along with the D you mentioned in the GR thread are hopefully being shopped to make these improvements. 

We cant keep picking up mediocre players and expecting them to have a profound impact on our roster. 

Hopefully these moves come sooner than later, some of these "core" players aren't getting any younger. 

Yah,

It's really frustrating because everybody keeps saying how great our farm system is.  If our farm system is so great, why do we need to watch complete TRASH turn 2 playoff season in a row into non-playoff seasons?

 

Rasmussen, Petry, Gustafsson, and Husso to any team that will take them at any price.

 

Tarasenko-Larkin-Debrincat

Raymond-Kasper-Berggren

Copp-Compher-Danielson

Chiarot-Veleno-Mazur

Fischer/Motte

 

Edvinsson - Seider

Johansson - Holl

Wallinder - Tuomisto

Lagesson

 

Talbot

Lyon

(Cossa 9 Games)

 

This is a lineup that can compete against good teams after 30-40 games of gel time.  The Neutered, The Sex Toys, The SCAM, and Dycknose are killing this team right now.  We need to do something about it, but for some reason - nothing happens.  Just constant TRASH.

 

BTW - Kip/Rick/Lefty - have you started watching Chiarot when he "activates" in the O-zone?  I'm so perplexed by this guy.  He's an absolute mess on defense and just creates a ton of problems for us in our own end.  But EVERY SINGLE TIME he decides to skate the puck along the boards and go in deep, something good happens.  It's the strangest of things.  I have zero idea why this guy has spend the last 10 years as a shetty defenseman instead of a useful bottom 6-er.  He's gotten paid more for being a Sex Toy, so I don't blame the guy.  But the coach and GM SHOULD be able to pick up on a player's strengths and weaknesses and take advantage of them.  I can't believe the SCAM is such a knucklehead in this regard.  Dycknose I can believe.  He's a stoolie.  The SCAM needs to OPEN HIS P H U C K I N G eyes, though.

 

 

 

 

 

[Axl Foley 327]

9 hours ago, Rick D said:

It should be clear to the management that we need to make significant moves to improve our defense. Our players that you refer to as "The Neutered" along with the D you mentioned in the GR thread are hopefully being shopped to make these improvements. 

We cant keep picking up mediocre players and expecting them to have a profound impact on our roster. 

Hopefully these moves come sooner than later, some of these "core" players aren't getting any younger. 

They werent brought in to be impactful. They were brought in to fill out the roster and be placeholders until the top 4 is filled with youth. Too many fans assume that because guys like Chiarot and Petry are getting big minutes, SY and Lalonde view them as top end D, when they both know these guys are playing above their skill level.

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

1 hour ago, Axl Foley said:

They werent brought in to be impactful. They were brought in to fill out the roster and be placeholders until the top 4 is filled with youth. Too many fans assume that because guys like Chiarot and Petry are getting big minutes, SY and Lalonde view them as top end D, when they both know these guys are playing above their skill level.

Blah blah blah.  Bullshet.  They suck.

[LeftWinger 5,075]

At this point, I wouldn't mind a minor to middle of the road shake up. Fire Lalonde is a no brainer, but I say trade Rasmussen and Veleno and cut ties (however you can) with Petry and Chiarot. Rangers are now talking desperate when it comes to dumping some players. They are still talking Trouba and have added Kreider to the mx. I think that the Trouba to Detroit trade is still on the table and will happen. But now in their desperate attempt to make their team better, they will definitely need to retain some salary and also add a sweeenter to the pot for this to happen. Anaheim still talking about getting rid of Zegras.

Acquire Trouba. Acquire Zegras and Fowler. Fire Lalonde, hire Fedorov or Larionov. (or both)

Rangers retain $4M, you LTIR Husso and waive Petry and Chiarot.

It's time for a shakeup!

[kipwinger 8,701]

This team isn't going anywhere until we've got two or three quality (not just serviceable) centers, four quality defensemen, and a regular NHL caliber starting goalie...at the same time. We've got one quality NHL center and it looks like Kasper and Danielson will slot in right after Larkin, but we aren't there yet. We've got two quality defensemen (Edvinsson and Seider) and it looks like ASP will be a third. We need four. I'd trade for Ivan Provorov. We have zero (long term) NHL caliber goalies. Talbot has been a stud, just like Bernier was a few years ago, but he's not a long term solution. Cossa is a beast and Augustine might be even better, so I'm not worried, but they're not ready yet.

The only position where we've got actual talent aside from those guys is at wing, which is the least important position and the easiest to find talent in UFA. Our team is built in an idiotic way. The common refrain is that you build from the net out, and SY does seem to be doing that (to his credit). But we need a little more time to get those guys in NHL roster spots. IMO that means two things, 1) promote guys when they're ready and not let unenthusiastic vets crowd them out (Berggren, Edvinsson, AlJo, Kasper), and B) be just a little more patient with the guys who aren't quite ready (Danielson, ASP, Cossa)

My list of tradeable assets from most to least valuable:

1. Dcat: this guy is a puss and is a total passenger. A contender with scoring/powerplay issues might be interested.

2. Talbot: He's been a stud so he's valuable. But I'd be bummed to move him because I think Cossa could learn a lot from him next season.

3. Compher: Marco makes this dude redundant as 2C and we only need one of Compher/Copp to be the 3C.

4. Kane/Tarasenko: Old, slow, unmotivated scoring wingers will only fetch marginal returns, but I'd be happy to replace either of these guys in the lineup with Mazur (as soon as he's healthy).

5. Rasmussen/Veleno: Both are solid defensively and don't cost much, which I'd imagine would appeal to contenders who need help on the defensively side of things.

5. Chiarot/Petry/Copp/Motte/Fischer: No real value here, either because the player is too expensive or because most organizations have guys like this already.

Edited November 25, 2024 by kipwinger

[town123 215]

I think Kane would net you a 2nd rounder to a cup contender  that wants their PP to be lethal... if he waives his NTC.

Tarasenko is tougher because he has a 2nd year attatched to him.

Talbot is worth a 1st if we're patient enough and injuries hamper a contender.

[kipwinger 8,701]

1 hour ago, town123 said:

I think Kane would net you a 2nd rounder to a cup contender  that wants their PP to be lethal... if he waives his NTC.

Tarasenko is tougher because he has a 2nd year attatched to him.

Talbot is worth a 1st if we're patient enough and injuries hamper a contender.

I don't even really care about the returns (within reason) because I think the on-ice impact would be a big addition by subtraction. I'm all for having quality, hard working, veterans around to provide leadership and push the young guys to steal roster spots. I'm not for gifting roster spots to underachievers who don't feel any motivation to perform. Like I said, guys like Kane and Tarasenko have nothing to play for. Same with Petry. At this point they're just cashing checks. Get gone from here Satan!!!!

[LeftWinger 5,075]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I don't even really care about the returns (within reason) because I think the on-ice impact would be a big addition by subtraction. I'm all for having quality, hard working, veterans around to provide leadership and push the young guys to steal roster spots. I'm not for gifting roster spots to underachievers who don't feel any motivation to perform. Like I said, guys like Kane and Tarasenko have nothing to play for. Same with Petry. At this point they're just cashing checks. Get gone from here Satan!!!!

[Axl Foley 327]

On 11/25/2024 at 1:06 PM, LeftWinger said:

At this point, I wouldn't mind a minor to middle of the road shake up. Fire Lalonde is a no brainer, but I say trade Rasmussen and Veleno and cut ties (however you can) with Petry and Chiarot. Rangers are now talking desperate when it comes to dumping some players. They are still talking Trouba and have added Kreider to the mx. I think that the Trouba to Detroit trade is still on the table and will happen. But now in their desperate attempt to make their team better, they will definitely need to retain some salary and also add a sweeenter to the pot for this to happen. Anaheim still talking about getting rid of Zegras.

Acquire Trouba. Acquire Zegras and Fowler. Fire Lalonde, hire Fedorov or Larionov. (or both)

Rangers retain $4M, you LTIR Husso and waive Petry and Chiarot.

It's time for a shakeup!

Trouba burned that bridge. He isnt coming to Detroit even as a FA.

[LeftWinger 5,075]

7 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

Trouba burned that bridge. He isnt coming to Detroit even as a FA.

I dunno. He said he wasn't waiving to go anywhere. Maybe it just wasn't because it was Detroit. I know the Rangers are looking to trade him. He only has a 15 team NTC. That's 16 teams they can trade him to with no recourse on his end. They could find the best deal (with no salary retained) to a crap hole team that isn't on his NTC and he'd be screwed. He may as well put Detroit on his list if they want him that bad. I do think the better play is Fowler because Detroit is actually on his list already.

[town123 215]

Cossa up and hopefully he gets a start.    Good or bad result, just practicing with the team, big league travel and reporters asking him the same questions over and over should make our boy hungry to get back to the D once he inevitably gets returned to GR.

 

As far as the loss to the Nucks, I thought both teams looked clunky (soft ice?) and slow.    Kasper was a solid 200' stud and BearGrin looked really showed his playmaking skill and scoring prowess even if his defensive game still lacks.   

 

Thoughts?

[Jimmybigrigs69 315]

14 minutes ago, town123 said:

Cossa up and hopefully he gets a start.    Good or bad result, just practicing with the team, big league travel and reporters asking him the same questions over and over should make our boy hungry to get back to the D once he inevitably gets returned to GR.

 

As far as the loss to the Nucks, I thought both teams looked clunky (soft ice?) and slow.    Kasper was a solid 200' stud and BearGrin looked really showed his playmaking skill and scoring prowess even if his defensive game still lacks.   

 

Thoughts?

Signing Jamal Adams is so dumb it might just work. Yes Adams is insane. No he can't cover in the backfield. But... he can rush. If Glenny is only going to use him at the line, then this could be one of the smarter dumb moves the Lions have ever made. Just keep him the fuq away from Waymo. 

[TLGTrico 648]

3 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Signing Jamal Adams is so dumb it might just work. Yes Adams is insane. No he can't cover in the backfield. But... he can rush. If Glenny is only going to use him at the line, then this could be one of the smarter dumb moves the Lions have ever made. Just keep him the fuq away from Waymo. 

Football sucks

[Jimmybigrigs69 315]

9 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

Football sucks

Agreed, but in USA it's called soccer. 

[LeftWinger 5,075]

So.... both Ghost and Walman are on pace for 65+ points this season.

[kipwinger 8,701]

Jon Buccigross's Red Wings observations from the game last night. Gotta say I agree with most of these (minus Rantanen).

https://x.com/Buccigross/status/1864323161375768884

 

Edited December 4, 2024 by kipwinger

[mackel 747]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Jon Buccigross's Red Wings observations from the game last night. Gotta say I agree with most of these (minus Rantanen).

https://x.com/Buccigross/status/1864323161375768884

 

Most of this is accurate... the problem... where/how do we get the players we need?

In one case I think we have a player we need bit he needs a reset.  Rasmussen needs a coach to get in his ear to make him play his size.  Meek Lalonde isn't that guy.  Until Rasmussen plays with an edge hits everyone chips in offensively he's a wasted talent.

Joe V should be trade bait.