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GoWings1905

Member Since 27 Mar 2007
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#2090200 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by Outsider on 03 January 2011 - 09:40 PM

Howard = 2nd season = Sophomore slump.


Fine. If that's what it is, fine.

Then WHY keep him in there, Game after Game, and allow him to keep struggling, when you have a 400 Career Game Winner outplaying him when he's NOT stapled to the bench?

What happened to Babcock's mantra of: "It's about Winning. It's about who's playing better. It's not about personal accomplishments."?

Or is this no longer the NHL, where the goal is to WIN?

Are these no longer the Detroit Red Wings, whose goal is to contend for the Cup. Every year?

Is it now the Jimmy Howard Developmental League, where the goal is to "season" James Howard, and get him experience?

Ken Holland has ALWAYS held the opinion that he wants his Players, ALL of them, "over-ready" before they take on major roles with the Red Wings. What Babcock is doing flies in the face of that philosophy.

This should NOT be about Jimmy Howard, no matter how promising he appears to be. Because the fact of the matter is that there are MANY "promising" rookies and young Players who just never. pan. out.

Babcock is trying to force the issue. It's going to backfire. Detroit is NOT the place to "test" a rookie goaltender.


#2090172 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by Outsider on 03 January 2011 - 09:10 PM

And really, what's the worst that would happen if Osgood did get going and take over heading into the playoffs? His last two playoff runs worked out pretty well for everyone...


Simple, gcom:

It would prove that Babcock was wrong.

Wrong to name Howard the Starter last Season. Wrong to bench Osgood for the entire second half of last Season. Wrong to stick with a struggling Howard in the Play Offs when he had Osgood on the bench. Wrong to name Howard the Starter this Season.

And Babcock will not allow himself to be proven wrong. Period.

We saw that first hand when the stubbornly refused to listen to the wisdom of Steve Yzerman, Nick Lidstrom, Ken Holland, and SCOTTY BOWMAN, as they ALL went to him in 2005-2006, and told him that it was a BAD idea to go with Legace in the Play Offs, and he should start getting Osgood prepared.

He refused. He wanted everyone to know that this was his Team. It was his decision.

He paid for it against Edmonton in 2006.

He paid for it last Post Season.

He'll pay for it again. Watch and see.

The man will NOT admit when he's wrong, and he refuses to learn from his mistakes.


#2090167 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by Outsider on 03 January 2011 - 09:04 PM

I don't understand what Babcock is doing. I've always supported him, but his handling of the goalie situation last year and this year is just mind boggling. Howard is not playing well. Whether or not you blame him for losses, it's just a fact. Ozzie, on the flip side, is playing very, very well. Why NOT give him a chance? Howard, for the moment, has played himself OUT of a starting position, yet Babcock refuses to go to Ozzie who we know is capable of carrying the load if need be. It's almost like he forgets we have a 400-win goalie as our backup.

I understand he doesn't want to shake Howard's confidence, but that boat sailed a while ago. Howard has gotten into terrible habits and needs to retool his game (namely, not dropping to the ice every time the opponent comes into the zone), which he can't do if he's starting every game.

If I were Ozzie I'd be even more pissed than last year. Last year Ozzie deserved to not play, and he didn't. This year he deserves to play, and he's not.

Wake up Babcock!


It's pretty simple, VM:

If Babcock turns to Osgood now, odds are Ozzie is so fired up and hungry for the #1 spot, that he TAKES it. And never looks back.

What does that mean for Mike Babcock?

It means he was WRONG about the goaltending. It means that he was WRONG to stick with Howard as the Wings were driven to 7 Games against an inferior opponent, and bounced in 5 Games against a choke Team which was swept in the next Round.

It means that he made the WRONG decision to declare Howard the Starter to open this Season, without a hint of competition for the spot.

For those who state that "Howard is the Starter. You have to stick with your Starter."

Says WHO? What justifies keeping Howard as the Starter, when his "back-up" is outplaying him. Wasn't Osgood the Starter just LAST SEASON....until HIS "back-up" started outplaying HIM. Then a NEW Starter was named, based on merit.

When Legace was the Starter in 2005-2006, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Manny's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Dom was the Starter from 2006-2008, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Dom's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2007-2008, and Conklin was the back-up, it was: "Whoever plays better, plays."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2008-2009, and Howard was the back-up, it was: "We're going with the hot hand."
Now that Howard is the Starter, and Osgood is once again the back-up, it's back to: "Howard's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."

Anyone who fails to see the ridiculous double standard here is out of their minds.

It's quite simple. Babcock will NOT allow Osgood a shot, not even a shot, to re-take the Starting role. He'll keep throwing Howard out there, for loss after loss, regardless of HOW he's playing, until the TEAM pulls it together, and Howard starts Winning again.

THEN he can say: "See. It was just a slump. All is well now." Right up until the Wings are bounced out of the Post Season early, again.

He did the same thing in January/February last Season when Howard went 8-5-6, and was giving up 3+ goals per Game consistently. He just kept throwing him out there, Game after Game, after Game.


#2090160 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by Outsider on 03 January 2011 - 08:47 PM

Really, what is wrong with having Osgood start every other or every third game? As things sit right now, I see Howard continuing to struggle, Osgood to cool off/get discouraged again, and here we are in spring out in the second round again. Do you think its a saving-face thing sometimes with Babcock, as in he doesn't want anyone to think anything is wrong with what he has been doing so he keeps on keeping on? He seems to do that a lot...


Gee....ya think?

Babcock is delusional about goaltending. It's his blind spot.

He seems to think that he can manufacture a Starting Goaltender, by sheer number of Starts alone.

He did it with Legace. He tried to do it with Conklin. And now he's doing it with Howard.

Babcock needs to learn that what makes a goaltender a #1 Goaltender is NOT the number of Games he starts during the Season. It's what's between his ears. And you can't FORCE that, no matter how many Games you throw 'em out there.

Babcock seems pig-headedly stubborn, incapable of learning from past mistakes, and unwilling to admit when he's wrong.

Maybe THAT is what kept him from ever being able to make it to the NHL as a Player.


#2090152 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by eva unit zero on 03 January 2011 - 08:28 PM

I know, it's like he treats a starter different than a back up. <_<


Howard has been badly outplayed by Osgood for a month and a half. This what you don't understand.

Howard automatically gets the next start after a bad game to 'sort it out' if you will. The problem is that he has been having a ton of bad games. Osgood, on the other hand, has been playing great and after each great game he gets exiled to the end of the bench for another week or two.

Howard has done nothing to earn his starts this season; Osgood has done plenty. Osgood should be starting half or more of the games from here on out until Howard proves otherwise.



#2090015 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by VM1138 on 03 January 2011 - 04:12 PM

I don't understand what Babcock is doing. I've always supported him, but his handling of the goalie situation last year and this year is just mind boggling. Howard is not playing well. Whether or not you blame him for losses, it's just a fact. Ozzie, on the flip side, is playing very, very well. Why NOT give him a chance? Howard, for the moment, has played himself OUT of a starting position, yet Babcock refuses to go to Ozzie who we know is capable of carrying the load if need be. It's almost like he forgets we have a 400-win goalie as our backup.

I understand he doesn't want to shake Howard's confidence, but that boat sailed a while ago. Howard has gotten into terrible habits and needs to retool his game (namely, not dropping to the ice every time the opponent comes into the zone), which he can't do if he's starting every game.

If I were Ozzie I'd be even more pissed than last year. Last year Ozzie deserved to not play, and he didn't. This year he deserves to play, and he's not.

Wake up Babcock!


#2090008 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by b.shanafan14 on 03 January 2011 - 04:01 PM

Really would like to see Osgood getting some starts. He has earned it as of late, especially compared to Howard. I get the whole "let the goaltender bounce back" thing, but how long are we going to shelf Osgood so Howard can work out the kinks? He had a rough December and didn't exactly start the New Year with a bang. I think the Wings have a chance right now to do what they couldn't last season and ended up regretting in the long run: have a two goalie rotation, using the veteran to keep the younger guy rested and healthy, and let the position work itself out naturally.

Really, what is wrong with having Osgood start every other or every third game? As things sit right now, I see Howard continuing to struggle, Osgood to cool off/get discouraged again, and here we are in spring out in the second round again. Do you think its a saving-face thing sometimes with Babcock, as in he doesn't want anyone to think anything is wrong with what he has been doing so he keeps on keeping on? He seems to do that a lot...


#2090004 Howard, Stuart, Eaves possible Tuesday against the Oil

Posted by wings_fanatic on 03 January 2011 - 03:55 PM

I am now getting really annoyed with Babcock's refusing to play Ozzy; he better play Friday against the Flames. Also good to hear Stu is okay. I too would like to see the Defense problem talked about in the dressing room, but maybe Babs needs to fix the D combos... Lidstrom is always a high plus/ minus except for this year playing with Stuart who is just too slow at puck movement. I think the team played better with Nick and Rafi playing together the other night so Babs should try that out again because some sort of changes need to be made.


#2089823 1/2 GDT: Flyers 3 at Red Wings 2

Posted by gcom007 on 03 January 2011 - 01:28 AM

Hartnell made it 3-0 with 5:36 left in the second, beating Howard high on the short side from the bottom of the left circle on a turnaround shot. Hartnell has 10 goals.

"I had a feeling in that situation that the goalie would be down," Hartnell said. "So I just tried to get the puck up."


http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=548211

This is the kind of thing that I've worried about since last season. While Howard did an outstanding job of stopping the puck last regular season, he displayed a fair amount of rather glaring weaknesses as well. It makes me think that the more focused attack in the playoffs by other teams and the increasing struggles this year are no coincidence. Howard plays a ton and with rather obvious weaknesses and tendencies, guys are likely figuring out how to more easily score on him. In any event, his December stats are pretty brutal and they weren't any better the second half of November. He really didn't need this game tonight to get 2011 off on the right note.

However, I'm slowly coming back to a similar frustration to one from last year, and it's directed at Babcock. I don't think Jimmy played a terrible game tonight; some weird bounces were really the story. But considering Howard's been on a steady decline since mid-November while showing little sign of the decline really ending, why is he continuing to get starts? Wait, let me rephrase that. Why is Babcock seemingly doing all he can to ensure that Jimmy Howard becomes just another one of the countless one-year wonder goalies who gets lost in the sophomore season slump? Sure, he's winning, but at what cost? He looks less and less confident every game and more and more frustrated and frazzled. This just doesn't make sense to me. If you've got a guy with the talent to be a real-deal pro for awhile, why do all you can to burn him out in 2 seasons? I just don't get it, and as I think about it, I truly am infinitely more frustrated by Babcock's decisions than Howard's play. I certainly want to see Howard improve, but he's not being given the best chance to allow that to happen.

Well, either that or he really was just a one-season wonder. Maybe 5 seasons in Grand Rapids and shaky play there wasn't a fluke after all...it's a frustrating situation either way.


#2089740 1/2 GDT: Flyers 3 at Red Wings 2

Posted by VM1138 on 02 January 2011 - 08:55 PM

It comes down to a simple equation. Which of the goalies has been playing better this past month? Ozzie, by a mile. Let's spare ourselves the endless debate over who should is better overall. Howard has gotten into bad habits and needs a break to get rid of them. I'm tired of seeing him so low on the ice every single time. It seems like he's always getting scored on high or because he immediately goes to the ground and can't get up and over for the rebound.

Ozzie gives the team a chance to win. At the very least do a 60-40 rotation, if not a 50-50 for now.

No predictions for the future, but for right now, we need Ozzie. The team didn't play to their full potential but they played well enough to win. Considering that Howard was clearly the weak link, especially after Ozzie immediately made huge saves coming in.

EDIT: On the bright side, the Wings should dominate January with a good schedule. Frankly I don't care if Vancouver takes 1st for now, there's still half a season left and in the end 1st place doesn't really matter anyway. But I'm tired of seeing mindfly talk like this means we're suddenly out of the playoffs because a team TIED us for 1st.


#2088556 12/31 GDT: Islanders 4 at Red Wings 3 OT)

Posted by wings_fanatic on 01 January 2011 - 04:50 PM

You know I am getting a little tired of Babcock cutting Jimmy Howard all the slack in the world. No, the loss was not per say all Howard's fault, but the job of a goalie is to stop a puck, even during times when the team defense is not at its best. Obviously goalies are not going to be perfect when the defense is weak, but Howard is just letting in too many goals the past month and a half or so; it seems to be a trend for him to let in 4 goals these days. My problem is that Ozzy has been looking REALLY solid in net, but then gets the bench for Howard, who is playing average at best. I see that Howard is getting the nod again tomorrow against Philly which makes me mad because I think Ozzy deserves some games here.

All biased aside, I know there are Ozzy fans and Howie fans, but I think Babs should be rotating them and, as the year progresses, give the better goalie more starts, and then use that to determine the goalie for the playoffs. At this rate, I feel every time the other team shoots it is going to go in on Howie (that is what I felt with Ozzy last year) so unless Howie starts outperforming Ozzy, Id say he should be the go to guy somewhere down the line


#2088248 12/31 GDT: Islanders 4 at Red Wings 3 OT)

Posted by edicius on 31 December 2010 - 09:38 PM

Thanks, O'Halloran. Prick.


#2087819 Who do you like?

Posted by GMRwings1983 on 31 December 2010 - 02:53 PM

Zetterberg - great playoff performer. Often disappears for stretches in the regular season.
Datsyuk - Best two way forward in hockey. Still needs to shoot more.
Lidstrom - Best defenseman in the game today. Has a worse plus/minus than Dustin Byfuglien.
Cleary - Does it all for this team on both sides of the ice. Got beat up by Chris Pronger.
Franzen - Awesome sniper who's clutch in big moments. Is one of the biggest ******* in the league.
Bertuzzi - Looks like he's big and mean. No longer plays big or mean.
Rafalski - Great puck moving defenseman. Often moves the puck to the wrong team.
Filppula - Nice hair and isn't bad looking. Overrated by 95% of LGW.
Kronwall - Good skater and puck handler. Doesn't lay big hits anymore. Also looks slightly effeminate.
Holmstrom - No one screens the goalie better. Is totally useless when not screening the goalie.
Eaves - Gave GMR a hard-on with his play in the last game. Unlikely to get more icetime from Babcock.
Stuart - Great hitter. Afraid to fight despite being 6'2 and from Western Canada.
Hudler - Has a way with the ladies. Has played so poorly that even Crymson hates him.
Helm - Very fast and hard working. Makes Draper's hands look like Mario Lemieux's.
Ericsson - Has improved his play and is a willing fighter. Needs to add about 20 pounds.
Abdelkader - Loves to hit and can drop the gloves. Sucks at fighting.
Modano - Had a 96 overall in my NHL 2000 game. Would be lucky to be rated 80 in this year's game.
Salei - Has played somewhat decent this season. Takes a penalty in every game.
Miller - Looks cool with grey hair despite being around 30. Has been totally invisible this season.
Draper - Has been a Wing since I was in elementary school. Is the unofficial mascot for the team.
Osgood - Has put together a really good career. Has a bigger 5-hole than Jenna Jameson.
Howard - Solid young goalie and the future in net. Is not as good as Carey Price.


#2088325 12/31 GDT: Islanders 4 at Red Wings 3 OT)

Posted by gcom007 on 31 December 2010 - 09:56 PM

And with this and all the other outpouring of spoiled whining, I think I'll be done for tonight.


Probably a good idea, because the once irrational, knee-jerk reactions to Howard's play on nights like this are becoming more grounded in reality lately.

The guy is not playing horrible, but he sure as hell is not playing that well lately. He's had a lot more less than flattering games lately and a lot less great games.

His game log for the last 20 isn't the prettiest site...

http://redwings.nhl....11&view=gamelog

9 games with sub-.900 save % over the last 20; some worse than others. He's definitely had some solid efforts in there too, but he hasn't been nearly as consistent this year as he was last year.

And I don't want to read too much into it, but the last minute goals at the end of periods thing is really just strange. Certainly not all were horrible goals on his end to give up, but I have to wonder if there's a focus issue there, not just for him though but for this whole team. 19 minutes a period just isn't enough and I can't help but believe that we're probably leading in giving up last minute goals.

With Osgood playing better this year and putting up some real solid games lately, I think it's getting to be about time to get a more equal rotation going on until one of them can prove that they can get a role going. Osgood hasn't had the chance to do it and Howard simply hasn't been doing it lately. With the injuries piling up again, we can't afford to have inconsistent goaltending. Howard will be fine long-run, he's still a real talented goalie, but Osgood's proving that he's got something left and if he can be the hot hand, we need to get him in more games.


#2088302 12/31 GDT: Islanders 4 at Red Wings 3 OT)

Posted by brett on 31 December 2010 - 09:47 PM

I wouldn't ***** if they haven't just beat 2 good teams, avs and stars. Idk doesn't make sense that 4 of the top players in the league have a 4 on 3 opportunity and can't score but then some kids have the same opportunity and do score. I guess it's just like the shootout. That sucks especially after the comeback...

Another game Howard gives up 4. Atleast he won't be that expensive next year.