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#2535882 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by kliq on 10 September 2014 - 07:43 PM


I think the difference between the two is Babcock has taken Holland's makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive. Babs certainly has his faults, but how many coaches get last year's version of the Red Wings into the playoffs at all given the circumstances? I have gotten on Babs in the past for his stubbornness and certain personnel decisions, though in reality he has done exceptional work and last season was probably his best coaching job to date.


Thank you :) that's exactly my point. You may not agree with everything I have said, but your view on what some fans are saying, is the point I am trying to make.


A large chunk of Red Wings fans hate the fact they we are currently going through a re-build, and have a hard time accepting that we are not currently cup contenders. They look at everything Holland does under a microscope, and when he does something they do not agree with (ie. Cleary signing, Quincy signing, Legwand trade) they call for his head. While Babcock who overall people are happy with right now, may have the same opinions as Holland, but at the end of the day only gets a few people slightly disagreeing/mad at him, never the outrage that is currently being pointed at Holland, nor do I think he should. Babcock has done one heck of a job in Detroit, especially last year with all the injuries.


I fully realize that Holland is the GM, Babcock is the coach, and the roster is Holland's responsibility, but my point is that people are overly critical of Holland right now due to the re-build.


The only thing I disagree with you on is your verbiage of "makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive" as I look at what Holland has been doing a re-build, but one in where he is maintaining competitiveness (please don't mistaken competitiveness with contending) during it, rather then doing an Edmonton and getting rid of everyone. IMO a much smarter way to do it.

#2535828 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by evilmrt on 09 September 2014 - 10:22 PM

I wanted Semin a few years back when he got a one-year deal. That condition was low risk, high reward. Seven million committed for one season is more appealing than long-term for a player with questions about his work ethic.

The Wings desperately need a top-six winger that scores goals, though. Have since Hossa left.


No, we have Franzen, didn't you pay attention to what he said? 

#2535685 Detroit offers D Raphael Diaz tryout

Posted by Detroit # 1 Fan on 07 September 2014 - 01:44 PM

Rather just play Marchenko. But since the Wings seem opposed to young D getting any ice this year, rather him then Kindl.

#2535624 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 05 September 2014 - 02:33 PM


This. Not to mention, I thought Sheahan and Tatar had some real chemistry. Sheahan's ability to find Tatar around the net impressed me quite a few times last season - lot of back and forth, and cross-crease stuff between them.


Totally agree.  I'd just add Dats, Z, and Helm to the lineup we've already got and not mess up the chemistry the other lines formed.  I'd actually rather have that happen and leave the kid line intact than have Alfie come back, forcing Helm into the bottom six and Jurco out of the lineup.  But that's just me.

#2535529 Lines Thread

Posted by DickieDunn on 04 September 2014 - 08:39 AM

Glendening just isn't that good. He's Matt Ellis with better wheels. He's fine as a reserve, but that's about it. I'd rather balance the ice time between the lines more and have a third scoring line and a checking line playing about the same minutes as the game dictates. Helm can handle a role on a scoring line but I think he's better as a check line center. Andersson has some skill, but he's too slow and has zero grit. Callahan has never scores at any level until last year. Take into his low assist numbers and that screams fluke season. I think he can be a decent 4th liner, but you don't build a the trying to keep those guys. Ferraro has Drew Miller upside, if he ever even gets that good. Losing him will not hurt at all.

#2535445 Lines Thread

Posted by wings4thecup06 on 03 September 2014 - 11:45 AM

I think the whole Jurco vs Callahan thing right here and why some view Jurco to get preferential treatment even though he's spent less time in the minors is simply the fact (IMO) that he got called up, took the job and ran with it. I think we'd be talking about a different situation right now if Jurco had been called up, played like Ferraro did, and then didn't get another shot. Then maybe Callahan would have got more than just his one game cup of coffee, and maybe he would have seized the opportunity.

Quite simply, Jurco got an opportunity and showed he could play in the NHL. If Callahan had got the same opportunity would he have been able to do just that? Who knows. I hope Callahan turns out to be a key forward on the 4th line for the Wings for years to come, but right now, it's Jurco that has shown he can at least play in the NHL. Callahan's turn will come, and when that happens, he'll have to make the most of it. 


Sometimes its just how the cookie crumbles. But, I agree to an extent that it wouldn't hurt Jurco to play the year in GR, and he will get recalled at some point. On the other hand, the Wings have basically created this roster log jam at forward. Cleary didn't have to come back, nor Alfie (although I will be happy if he returns), and we've got either Andersson or Glendening who IMO one of which is expendable (my money's on Andersson, Glendening brings a different style of game that we need more of - like Callahan). 


If Jurco starts the year in the NHL, I'll be happy. But if (as is most likely to happen), he starts in GR, then I'll be happy too. It gives him more time to grow his game and develop into a better scoring and defensive forward so that this time next year when he'll be on the roster from the start (most likely) he'll be maturer and ready to carry a good chunk of the load. 

#2535303 Lines Thread

Posted by Dabura on 01 September 2014 - 12:03 AM

Jurco scored 15 pts in his first stint, I liked him a lot, but he's far from the next coming. Tatar has been playing for this organization since 09. Nyquist since 2010. Jurco started in GR in 2012. He has more time to do. He is not more special than Tatar or Nyquist.


A few things:

  • Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
  • Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
  • Does a player have to be The Next Coming to play in our top nine?
  • A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a top-six power forward.

Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Clearly Jurco needs more time on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"

#2535223 Alfie wants to play

Posted by wings4thecup06 on 30 August 2014 - 07:50 AM

LOL Cleary is absolutely an NHL calibre player. If he comes to camp healthy, he should without a doubt be capable of producing as a third line support guy. The big question is whether or not he is finally healthy... I don't like this signing any more than any other Wings fan, but I do have a ton of respect for Dan Cleary and for the Wings management (Ken Holland) for honoring their handshake deal from last year. I find it very difficult to believe that some Wings "fans" are actually hoping Cleary fails.f****** ridiculous... I hope he proves all the haters wrong and plays 50+ games and puts up 20+ points.


I have a ton of respect for Cleary. But I'm completely divided on this issue. Part of me wants Danny to have a real strong season, but then the other half of me wants several prospects - Jurco and Mantha mainly, to play better than him in preseason so they force managements hand into playing them full time in the NHL this season. More so for Jurco than Mantha, but you get the point. I don't want Cleary to fail or suck though. But part of me feels its time to move on and properly make the young guns transition. Jurco is a big part of that IMO, and if we can get nearly a full season of Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco, we'll be a stronger team. 

#2535224 Alfie wants to play

Posted by DickieDunn on 30 August 2014 - 07:58 AM

Cleary used to be a very good role player. Now his knees are shot and he can't skate. Unless he found some magic pills that healed them, he shouldn't be anywhere near an NHL ice surface. If they really wanted him back he should have gotten a tryout deal. Now I'd he doesn't make it the Wings are stuck with 2.5 mil in cap hit because you know he'll get his 10 games in.

#2534989 Las Vegas rumored to get an expansion team

Posted by MabusIncarnate on 26 August 2014 - 10:48 PM

Yeah, I mean Phoenix is doing so well, let's toss another team right next to them. 


So what fun and exciting name are they going to slap on this one?


If any of those cities was going to be the first "lock" to get an NHL expansion team, Vegas is the last one on the list I thought would be receiving one. Seattle or QC makes the most sense.

#2534519 Ice Bucket ALS Challenge: Bettman edition

Posted by T.Low on 18 August 2014 - 07:29 PM

My 75 yr old Mom.

#2534541 Lines Thread

Posted by darkmanx on 19 August 2014 - 06:42 AM

Under no circumstances should Abby be in the top 6. He has proven he isn't capable of playing that role and has what, 40 points in the last 120 games while playing with two of the best players in the league. I can't even count how many breakaways or open nets he misses, and gets goals because the puck bounces off him. Jurco should be in that role over Abby, has way more skill and plays bigger then Abby most of the time.

#2534315 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Jesusberg on 15 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

Things I will give Ken Holland full credit for:


-Restocking the prospect shelves. Let's face it, the drafting was pretty hit and miss during the early to mid 2000's. Kenny doesn't get full credit here, but he was part of turning around the prospect pool.


-Being smart with prospect progression. I know a lot of people hate the whole overripe thing, but Nyquist and Tatar are examples of players who have greatly benefited from gaining experience in the minors.


-Signing younger players to solid deals. I think his "bridge deals" are a real positive. Guys like Zetterberg, Filppula and Kronwall all got them, now it's guys like Tatar and most likely Nyquist next year. He seems to be good with the younger player's deals.


-Rebuilding on the fly. Most teams need to tank, sell off their assets and completely alter their team. Detroit's managed to keep their superstars, and nearly all of their promising young players while staying competitive. Whatever your definition of competitive is, Detroit hasn't been a basement dweller - that's a plus in my eyes.


Things I don't think are Ken Holland's fault:


-Missing out on big name free agents. The salary cap has changed the playing field in the NHL, but I also think that the attitudes of players have changed. It's almost as if they want teams to chase them. The whole Suter thing was mind-boggling to me. You're a GM and you get on a plane to go talk to a player? Guys wanting to play in their hometowns, with their best friends, etc. is out of Ken's hands, I think. Does he need to change his approach, perhaps? It's a situation now where players want three things: comfort, comradery and cap hit. The one thing Kenny can control is giving out money, so luring players here is going to be a matter of over payment, I think.


Things I want to slap Ken Holland for:


-Misguided loyalty to veteran players. The list of players could go on and on, but we know the deal here.


-Bringing back familiar talent. I think you can also accuse Kenny of playing it "too safe" here. Bringing back talent to take the places of prospects he feels aren't ready yet. It's kind of a double-edged sword, but at times I think Kenny holds guys back too much. It was great for Gus and Tatar to stay down, but then the team also had that mess at the beginning of the year with Bert, Sammy and Cleary taking up spots.


-Poor judgement with trades and contracts. The Quincey and Legwand trades still bother me. Giving out 3 million dollar, NTC contracts to 35+ year-old vets, and a 4.25 million dollar contract to a pylon.


All things considered, I don't think there's another guy for the job right now, but that doesn't mean I think Kenny is totally effective in his post. He's done a lot of great things for this team, and recently some not-so-great things. If he could just alter his approach to trading, I think he would be totally set.


This team is entering a situation where the star players will be done in a few seasons, and there's quite a bit of talent waiting in the wings to take their place. The question is, which guys are going to become legitimate superstars, and what is Kenny going to do with the excess talent? I think Nyquist, Mantha, Jurco and Tatar all have potential to be star forwards on this team, DeKeyser, Ouellet and Sproul strike me as the future of the blueline, but who knows what will happen when they're not insulated anymore. Kenny's going to have some big decisions to make with the talent on this team, and they're going to determine if this entire "rebuild on the fly" process was really effective or not.

#2534201 Alfie wants to play

Posted by martinezsvsu on 14 August 2014 - 12:22 AM


-thats the lineup i want too. my argument is we can have both alfie and jurco. maybe jurco will start in GR and miss 15-20 games but thats not a big deal. yes starting the best 12 forwards does involve jurco, but it also involves alfie.

#2534258 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 14 August 2014 - 02:11 PM


I dunno, harold. I think over the course of this five year drought we've always been a couple key pieces away from seriously competing for the Cup. At the same time, our prospect cupboards were empty, and the brain trust has done a really good job of re-stocking. Right now we have one of the better prospect pools in the league, and I think we're still just a couple key pieces away from being a serious contender, because we still have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen. I think that's rebuilding on the fly. Over the course of a few years you remain competitive, maybe trying for a UFA home run here and there - but the focus is on keeping the competitive core while building up a solid stable of very promising young players that will hopefully complement that core and one day take over. Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco have broken through, Smith and DeKeyser should take big steps forward this season, and we're also looking at four or five very good D prospects waiting in the wings, Anthony Mantha being no more than a year away, and our goalie of the future spending his final season as a Griffin.


I (want to) believe Ken Holland has been doing what he's been doing for good reason and that the past few years of "futility" are going to pay off in a big way.


Admittedly I don't know a ton about our prospects. Historically though people here tend to talk like they are all going to make the roster and contribute in a significant way when the reality is that most prospects don't shake out. 


My big problem is that even if the Wings are a couple key pieces away from a serious Cup run, Holland isn't landing them and is content to sign some aging vet (and likely former Wing) to fill that hole.  The Nyquist situation was absolutely ridiculously and hurt the team.


I think Babcock has done a tremendous job given the mish mash of spare parts he's had to work with over the last few seasons, partly due to injury and partly due to Kenny.