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Member Since 27 Mar 2007
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#2436545 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by GoWings1905 on 13 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

The real problem is that people expect him to be a 40 goal scorer, when he simply is not (Well that and we expect him to be a goal per game player like he was in the 08 playoffs). It's quite the anomaly. Even Mickey Redmond refers to him as a 40 goal guy, but check his stats, at 33, he's never scored that much. Hell, he's only scored over 30 goals once. 


Moral of the story, perhaps people need to change their expectations of how much this guy scores. He's a high 20 goal scorer. Couple that with an average of 20 assists and it doesn't seem as bad as people make it out to be. 


I do think he will largely benefit from playing with workhorses like Weiss or Alfie though. Guys who aren't afraid to get a little dirty while he gets himself into prime scoring positions (and when you can shoot the puck like him, that's pretty much anywhere).


I'm not so sure it's Franzen's production that people have a gripe about. At least for me personally, it's more the appearance that Franzen doesn't show up to play every game. He is a great value for the contract, but that doesn't make floating and lack of effort acceptable. Franzen's massive playoff years probably skewed some expectations, though in reality Franzen hasn't performed at all in the playoffs since then. So, when your fallback is "playoff performer" and then you don't do that anymore -- combined with the floating during the regular season, that's where fans start to get upset with Franzen. 


I agree that Weiss centering a line should help out Franzen this season. He needs somebody to do most of the work.

#2436109 Cleary re-signs with Detroit, 1 year, $1.75m deal

Posted by GoWings1905 on 12 September 2013 - 10:51 AM

Is there any chance even if Cleary is the worst player on the ice at camp, he ends up being cut? or does this give him immunity?


Samuelsson is around, so I doubt Cleary will be the worst player at camp.


The money and term aren't bad for Cleary, but I just can't get around how completely unnecessary this move is. He's a better player than Sammy or Bert, though having all three around is ridiculous. Nyquist is somehow going to start in Grand Rapids, which is an insult to him because he deserves to be in the NHL. 


Real puzzling decision by Holland after a strong summer otherwise. His obsession with veterans and loyalty to certain players goes overboard too often. 

#2435919 Report: Cleary to sign with PHI, 3 yrs, $2.75m/yr, NTC

Posted by GoWings1905 on 11 September 2013 - 08:10 PM


I analyzed his production in the playoffs today. He had one legitimate goal (with a stick and against a goalie), the others being either empty netters (1) or deflections off his body (2); and he had one primary assist (a pass to Smith at the blue line), with the remainder being pedestrian passes to other players who ended up doing the actual set-up work. His numbers are very inflated.


In the meantime, he was making bad defensive plays and turning the puck over regularly. The latter became a commonality during the regular season; Cleary required extra time to bend over and pass it a puck, and even more than that to lift it into the air, and opposing players with no such restrictions in quickness (meaning nearly all of them) would generally catch up to him before he managed to get either of those things done. This was especially troublesome along the boards, because the opposition would simply hold him there and yank the puck away from him.


I guess all of that is irrelevant to me. If Cleary had not produced points, people would have piled on him even more. Especially since Cleary was receiving a lot of ice time. Cleary gets "ugly" goals/points because he puts himself into position to do so. Maybe if Franzen and Filppula would have done the same, they could have gotten themselves some more "illegitimate" points. 


I think discrediting a player's production is rather silly. Players get deflections off their body when they go to the front of the net, not float around the perimeter like Franzen and Filppula did. Hockey is a weird game of bounces and you clearly were just focusing on the negatives in your analysis of Cleary to further diminish his value to the team. 


I could analyze Franzen and Filppula's play and come up with a whole lot of invisibility. I will stand by my original point that Cleary was useful in the playoffs. You attempted to do the same thing for Brunner when he didn't get re-signed.

#2435764 Report: Cleary to sign with PHI, 3 yrs, $2.75m/yr, NTC

Posted by GoWings1905 on 10 September 2013 - 07:30 PM

so he went for an extra 1.65 mil over 3 years


shows how much he wanted to be here. or maybe he knew he was getting push to the bottom


he always was a good playoff guy. but 3 years is too long and 2.75 is too much. i rather have alfie


Not sure it has as much to do with Cleary's desire to stay with the Red Wings, as it does the Wings have no space to make the move. I think if both sides had their way, Cleary would still be in Detroit. Not that I'm disappointed in Cleary moving on to the Flyers, but in reality Holland's awful contract to Samuelsson probably prevented Cleary from staying. So for once, I'm thankful to have that horrible deal. 


As you stated, I completely agree that three years is far too long for a player breaking down physically. Cleary is one of my favorites, but I am relieved that the Red Wings don't have another roster spot potentially being taken away from Nyquist/Tatar. 


Regardless, I am grateful for Cleary's dedication and service to the organization. Remarkable story from training camp invite to a major contributor on a championship team and one that came within a game of another. I personally became a huge Cleary fan because of his work-ethic and heart. He fell down a ton at the end, but he was always out there competing hard every shift.


Anticipating Cleary outworking Franzen for a loose puck or two on October 12th.  :bye1:

#2435463 X Factor Part Deux

Posted by GoWings1905 on 08 September 2013 - 01:59 PM

This one is easier for me than the forwards. For me, it is DeKeyser easily. I think the Red Wings beat the Blackhawks with a healthy DeKeyser. Their forecheck gave the Red Wings fits and DeKeyser's speed/puck-moving ability was something the Red Wings really lacked in that series defensively. His poise and steadiness really solidified the defense at the end of last season. 

#2435032 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by GoWings1905 on 04 September 2013 - 07:58 PM

Except Franzen outshot Cleary 116 to 93 last season and had a higher S% of 12.1 as compared to Cleary's 9.7

And the difference is bigger during regular seasons that arnt 48 games long. The only player that typically out shoots Franzen is Zetterberg. Wouldn't say having a confident shot is the issue at all here.


I have more of a problem where Franzen typically plays on the ice. Cleary did a ton of dirty work in front of the net, which Franzen could do more of with his size. Franzen has ridiculous hands and probably the best wrist shot on the team, but yet he rarely seems to put himself near the slot where he could utilize that strength. The Wings got slightly better as the season progressed, but they still have a knack for generating too much of their offense from the perimeter. 


That's why I don't have as much of a gripe with Cleary and Abby. At least they were consistently willing to try and score dirty goals. 

#2434944 What forward is the Red Wings X Factor?

Posted by GoWings1905 on 04 September 2013 - 11:34 AM

I went with Helm. The energy and dimension of the team change entirely when he is healthy. Now that the top-six is stronger with the additions of Alfredsson and Weiss, Helm coming back as the third line center makes this a very deep forward unit. 


There's really no equivalent to Helm's speed and ability to forecheck on the Red Wings. Not to mention, he's the best penalty-killing forward as well. 

#2434887 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by GoWings1905 on 03 September 2013 - 10:35 PM

Saying someones angle is lame is a lame angle.

The point is: Franzen at $4 > Clarkson at $5.25, regardless of whether u perceive Franzen to float now and then or not.

Again, none of you have any idea how Franzen will play at 38. Some players drop off as early as 32 and some can play top lines till they're 40. Of course he'll slow with age, but none of us know which Franzen will be, so it's kind of pointless to speculate.
It doesn't forgive anything. No player is perfect. Do I wish Franzen were less streaky? Yes. Do I wish Zetterberg would shoot more? Yes. Did I wish Cleary would fall down less? Yes. Do I wish Sammy wouldn't shoot it directly at the logo? Yes. Do I wish Ericsson would throw bigger hits? Yes.

Fact is, lazy or not. They overpaid. We didn't. Franzen is the better deal among those players.

Sure, those guys got overpaid. In the context when Franzen actually signed his deal, the Red Wings opted for him over a better (slightly more expensive) Marian Hossa.

I didn't really care about signing Clarkson or Clowe, but in terms of value comparing players -- I want Hossa over Franzen every time.

#2434584 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by GoWings1905 on 01 September 2013 - 11:58 AM

This would be more acceptable if Franzen was decent at other areas of hockey. That isn't the case at all.

He should be looking to score goals. That's what the Red Wings are paying him to do for the next 35 years of that contract.

#2434493 Teemu Selanne to return for a final season

Posted by GoWings1905 on 30 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

One more season of whining on a team that is going to regress big time.

Welcome back, Teemu! Great player, but I think his class act stature is phony.

#2434458 Wings sign Alfredsson to 1-year, $3.5m deal (+$2m bonuses)

Posted by GoWings1905 on 30 August 2013 - 12:12 PM


So that's also pretty much an official no to Cleary coming back, right?


It sure seems that way. I think it was all but official when Samuelsson couldn't get bought out, though. That would have obviously at least created a path for Cleary's possible return. 

#2434454 Wings sign Alfredsson to 1-year, $3.5m deal (+$2m bonuses)

Posted by GoWings1905 on 30 August 2013 - 11:44 AM



Confirmation of Alfredsson wearing #11, for those interested. 






#2434277 One player to put us over the top

Posted by GoWings1905 on 27 August 2013 - 09:01 PM

I think the Red Wings biggest need right now is a top-pairing d-man. Less necessary because of the DeKeyser emergence, but I still believe someone to complement Kronwall would really solidify the defense. 


Granted, most teams aren't willingly going to give up such an asset. I'm sure the asking price was/would be insane, but the one name that comes to mind for me is Alex Edler. There were rumors earlier in the summer of his availability and the Red Wings being interested, so he was at that point reasonably available. 


Again, without question one of Nyquist or Tatar is going the other way for starters. Beyond that, I would just be guessing at what it would take to acquire Edler. 

#2434232 Wings sign Alfredsson to 1-year, $3.5m deal (+$2m bonuses)

Posted by GoWings1905 on 27 August 2013 - 11:26 AM


Call me when Cleary becomes one of the best net-front presences in the league and an important part of the power play. Beaten-up, slow, 39-year-old Holmstrom in his last season was valuable in ways that 2013 Cleary wasn't. 


Conversely, Cleary did many things that Holmstrom never could. Nobody could replace Holmstrom's ability in front of the net. I would argue Cleary was one of the few on the team willing/able to fill that role. In fact, Cleary and Abdelkader were the two forwards consistently willing to play in the tough areas of the ice last season. 


The point still holds true. You ripped anyone that didn't want Holmstrom around, yet practically everyone here loves to jump on the anti-Cleary bandwagon. 


To clarify, I don't want Cleary back either, but the whipping boy status Cleary has garnered went way overboard. 

#2434047 Keep Tootoo, Drop Cleary

Posted by GoWings1905 on 24 August 2013 - 12:52 PM

I can only imagine the hatred around the NHL if Bertuzzi is the first guy Zetterberg hands the Cup to.  

I think another newly acquired vet may have that potential honor locked up.