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Shaman

Member Since 06 May 2007
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 06:25 PM
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#2491766 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 06 March 2014 - 04:23 PM

 

Quick! Someone call Mr. I. We've found the Red Wings next GM. Let Illitch know that frankgrimes is willing to throw away a 22-year playoff streak to move up 5-7 places in the draft. #winning


 

Pure speculation. You have no way of knowing that. Keep posting baseless accusations and emotional tantrums, though. Good stuff! By the way, you're still here 24 hours after you said you were off to find a new team. Just a friendly reminder.

 

My favorite one is that the Holland apologist act as though this pick magically keeps the playoff streak alive. If they don't make the playoffs is this still a good move in your opinion?




#2491537 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 06 March 2014 - 12:24 AM

I hope y'all can  get to like david legwand as much as the preds fans have for 15 seasons,Treat him well,after all he was our  first ever predator player.

 

 

Will be cheering for him as a red wing

Please take him back... please? Please? 




#2491339 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 08:25 PM

While I'm not really impressed with this trade - I dunno if I'd call it a fleecing...

 

I think we'll have to see how the respective players involved before we can form a lynching mob :lol:

 

LGW right now:

 

mob.gif

 

Not really sure you want a part of this.




#2491326 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 08:17 PM

So what if the rival GM doesn't want that offer?

 

Then what?

You still don't let Nashville fleece you for an aging center that is redundant around this time next month. 




#2491290 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:53 PM

There's definitely half a pint of beer in the pint glass: wether it's half full or half empty is up to you.

I'm going with half full. A playoff season missed does not help Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Andy, Weiss , Jurco, and Smith gain valuable playoff experience. Legwand helps us get by until the Calvary returns, then once the playoffs begin, as we saw last year, all bets are off. If healthy, we've actually got a damn good lineup.

Somehow, with no top 20 picks since 1991, our prospects managed to win the Calder Cup and produce the Butterfield winner . Jarnkrok is no Pulkkinen, and it's not like we don't have guys in the pipeline ahead and behind him.

 

Again if mediocrity is okay with you, fine. For me I look at this team and ask two questions:

 

Can this team seriously compete for a Stanley Cup? If yes great. If not then I ask:

 

Has the team increased it's ability to compete for one in the future.

 

This trade doesn't make this team a serious cup contender, and it has hurt the team long term.




#2491250 Ken Holland's Moves From 2009-2014

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:20 PM

id like to know what hollad plans this offseason. the UFA defensemen arent impressive 

 ken-holland-2011-5-13-1-10-38_zps5ed85d9




#2491243 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:12 PM

 

He also said that when Datsyuk was day to day and Helm was not injured.

 

If Weiss cannot allow us to play D and Z together, Legwand will while providing us with good defense and offense.

Again, what does he gain by doing this?

 

Short term: The Wings are in a marginally better position to lock up the 8th seed. And again as I keep saying, get bounced by one of the top seeds.

 

Long term: The prospect pool is weaker by a factor of 2. First they lose a top prospect, and second they lose a chance at the highest draft pick since Marty Lapointe. 

 

Seems like a bad deal no matter how you spin it.




#2491226 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:00 PM

Coming next season: The Wings trade Mantha for Hudler.




#2491139 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 06:04 PM

 

The Wings cant say they knew about it. If they admit they dealt a player that was definitely bolting they would be sanctioned by the league for not negotiating in good faith. It would also prevent other teams from ever trusting the Wings in any deals from then on. They will never admit they knew anything.

Uh, if he had a deal on the table with SEL every team would have known about it, the IIHF has a transfer agreement for this very reason.




#2491115 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:53 PM

In the end, Holland made a move that gives the team a good chance at the playoffs while trading a spare forward, a draft pick, and a player who may never have played for the the Red Wings.  If Jarnkrok decides a full time job in Nashville is worth staying for and he develops into a top 6 center, this trade should be viewed as a definitive win for Nashville.  If Jarnkrok bolts or never develops, Detroit wins.

 

http://redwingsandot...eadline-review/

 

And after they get bounced from the playoffs we get to hear Holland dust off the old gem of a speech 'well its important to get into the playoffs, anything can happen, had a bounce gone our way' etc etc etc. The realistic outcome of this trade is the Wings sold more of their future to keep a streak alive that is meaningless anyway.




#2491067 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

 

You have to hedge your bets. What's more likely, Legwand helps fill a void and improve the team, or Andersson becomes a serviceable 1C and Jarnkrok is a superstar? 

 

EDIT

 

Instead of superstar let's say better than Legwand.

Hedge what bets? Even with Legwand they aren't a contender, they still are a bubble team that will have to claw into the playoffs and then will have to play Boston or Pittsburgh with their depleted forwards and ramshackle defense. So instead of having a really good first round pick, they play 4-6 more hockey games than they would have otherwise and draft lower. 




#2491058 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:27 PM

We don't know what any of the GM conversations were like. The other GMs could have declined any reasonable offers then everyone would be upset we didn't make a trade. Holland can't win.

 

This kind of baseless speculation doesn't help anything. I mean I have a very hard time believing there is a huge conspiracy against Holland that other teams won't deal with him. 

 

The more realistic possibilities are that A) Holland low balls the other GMs and they won't pull the trigger, or B) That Holland when faced with a fair deal is unwilling to pull the trigger.

 

 

Given the news about Datsyuk this deal stinks of a desperation move on Holland's part. It completely contradicts his stated strategy of not dealing youth  they are high on or high draft picks and especially not for rentals, but trying to deal roster players and depth prospects in what he called a 'hockey trade;.




#2491049 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

 

There's time to get more center prospects. There isn't time to find a patch for the Wings. This trade makes sense from almost all risk management perspectives.

 

This trade makes no sense:
 

The Wings offense is sub-par, even with the addition of Legwand, it's not going to be any better than it was in January. This team's defense still has KMFQ in the top 4, and Howard still hasn't quite figured himself out. So, instead of trading for a D-man that isn't a rental, Holland trades for a rental center. In the purely short term the moves probably would pan out to be pretty equal, in the long term its terrible. They give up one of their top center prospects for an aging rental center that because 3-4th center on the depth chart if the team gets healthy, and still haven't addressed their defensive woes.




#2490953 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 04:56 PM

 

I think a big factor on whether this was a terrible move or not hinges on where Legwand re-signs in the offseason. 

 

I think people generally overrate our prospects here, but if this really is just a 20 game rental then Holland sure gave up a lot. 

If they resign Legwand and everyone is healthy they will have 7 centers.

 

Zetterberg (>30)

Datsyuk (>30)

Weiss (>30)

Helm

Andersson

Legwand (>30)

Sheahan

 

Now I know I only have a minor in math, but I believe you can't have 7 players in 4 spots.




#2489807 Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 09:40 PM

My bad 47.7 percent are jealous of us not 50. We where good while Colorado, Chicago, and the Pens were collecting their picks, would you rather we had sucked alongside them so we could have had those same picks? What you're proposing is nonsensical not to mention highly improbable, and I just can't debate this anymore.

If you're okay with years of what we are seeing this season fine. As I said there are two options, you are debating against one of them.

 

Holland either needs to make at least 2 trades to address the two biggest holes on this team (top 6 winger and #2-#3 RH D-man) or he has to go into full rebuild. Either way, this 'rebuild on the fly' is not a tenable solution as I keep saying.