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Shaman

Member Since 06 May 2007
Offline Last Active Today, 11:26 AM
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#2491250 Ken Holland's Moves From 2009-2014

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:20 PM

id like to know what hollad plans this offseason. the UFA defensemen arent impressive 

 ken-holland-2011-5-13-1-10-38_zps5ed85d9




#2491243 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:12 PM

 

He also said that when Datsyuk was day to day and Helm was not injured.

 

If Weiss cannot allow us to play D and Z together, Legwand will while providing us with good defense and offense.

Again, what does he gain by doing this?

 

Short term: The Wings are in a marginally better position to lock up the 8th seed. And again as I keep saying, get bounced by one of the top seeds.

 

Long term: The prospect pool is weaker by a factor of 2. First they lose a top prospect, and second they lose a chance at the highest draft pick since Marty Lapointe. 

 

Seems like a bad deal no matter how you spin it.




#2491226 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 07:00 PM

Coming next season: The Wings trade Mantha for Hudler.




#2491139 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 06:04 PM

 

The Wings cant say they knew about it. If they admit they dealt a player that was definitely bolting they would be sanctioned by the league for not negotiating in good faith. It would also prevent other teams from ever trusting the Wings in any deals from then on. They will never admit they knew anything.

Uh, if he had a deal on the table with SEL every team would have known about it, the IIHF has a transfer agreement for this very reason.




#2491115 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:53 PM

In the end, Holland made a move that gives the team a good chance at the playoffs while trading a spare forward, a draft pick, and a player who may never have played for the the Red Wings.  If Jarnkrok decides a full time job in Nashville is worth staying for and he develops into a top 6 center, this trade should be viewed as a definitive win for Nashville.  If Jarnkrok bolts or never develops, Detroit wins.

 

http://redwingsandot...eadline-review/

 

And after they get bounced from the playoffs we get to hear Holland dust off the old gem of a speech 'well its important to get into the playoffs, anything can happen, had a bounce gone our way' etc etc etc. The realistic outcome of this trade is the Wings sold more of their future to keep a streak alive that is meaningless anyway.




#2491067 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

 

You have to hedge your bets. What's more likely, Legwand helps fill a void and improve the team, or Andersson becomes a serviceable 1C and Jarnkrok is a superstar? 

 

EDIT

 

Instead of superstar let's say better than Legwand.

Hedge what bets? Even with Legwand they aren't a contender, they still are a bubble team that will have to claw into the playoffs and then will have to play Boston or Pittsburgh with their depleted forwards and ramshackle defense. So instead of having a really good first round pick, they play 4-6 more hockey games than they would have otherwise and draft lower. 




#2491058 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:27 PM

We don't know what any of the GM conversations were like. The other GMs could have declined any reasonable offers then everyone would be upset we didn't make a trade. Holland can't win.

 

This kind of baseless speculation doesn't help anything. I mean I have a very hard time believing there is a huge conspiracy against Holland that other teams won't deal with him. 

 

The more realistic possibilities are that A) Holland low balls the other GMs and they won't pull the trigger, or B) That Holland when faced with a fair deal is unwilling to pull the trigger.

 

 

Given the news about Datsyuk this deal stinks of a desperation move on Holland's part. It completely contradicts his stated strategy of not dealing youth  they are high on or high draft picks and especially not for rentals, but trying to deal roster players and depth prospects in what he called a 'hockey trade;.




#2491049 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

 

There's time to get more center prospects. There isn't time to find a patch for the Wings. This trade makes sense from almost all risk management perspectives.

 

This trade makes no sense:
 

The Wings offense is sub-par, even with the addition of Legwand, it's not going to be any better than it was in January. This team's defense still has KMFQ in the top 4, and Howard still hasn't quite figured himself out. So, instead of trading for a D-man that isn't a rental, Holland trades for a rental center. In the purely short term the moves probably would pan out to be pretty equal, in the long term its terrible. They give up one of their top center prospects for an aging rental center that because 3-4th center on the depth chart if the team gets healthy, and still haven't addressed their defensive woes.




#2490953 Legwand to Detroit for Eaves, Jarnkrok + cond 3rd/2nd

Posted by Shaman on 05 March 2014 - 04:56 PM

 

I think a big factor on whether this was a terrible move or not hinges on where Legwand re-signs in the offseason. 

 

I think people generally overrate our prospects here, but if this really is just a 20 game rental then Holland sure gave up a lot. 

If they resign Legwand and everyone is healthy they will have 7 centers.

 

Zetterberg (>30)

Datsyuk (>30)

Weiss (>30)

Helm

Andersson

Legwand (>30)

Sheahan

 

Now I know I only have a minor in math, but I believe you can't have 7 players in 4 spots.




#2489807 Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 09:40 PM

My bad 47.7 percent are jealous of us not 50. We where good while Colorado, Chicago, and the Pens were collecting their picks, would you rather we had sucked alongside them so we could have had those same picks? What you're proposing is nonsensical not to mention highly improbable, and I just can't debate this anymore.

If you're okay with years of what we are seeing this season fine. As I said there are two options, you are debating against one of them.

 

Holland either needs to make at least 2 trades to address the two biggest holes on this team (top 6 winger and #2-#3 RH D-man) or he has to go into full rebuild. Either way, this 'rebuild on the fly' is not a tenable solution as I keep saying.




#2489291 Luongo to Panthers

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 04:41 PM

Mrazek for Kesler straight up (e4).




#2489234 Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 03:35 PM

 

Not to stray too much from the topic at hand.

 

The mediocre Flames you speak of traded a lot of picks and prospects away trying to become contenders. Holland's not doing that. Which is good. Also, the Flames drafting has been s***tier than Taco Bell. Compare the Flames to St Louis. Very similar arcs, but drastically different results.

 

Also, unless you want Holland to trade away Datsyuk, Z, Kronwall, and Howard and go into full-blown rebuild, do you really think trading Helm is going to turn us into Chicago or LA in 5 years?

Those aren't the only players with value. Bertuzzi could easily fetch a 3rd rounder if Rhobidas did, Abdelkader and Andersson both could be worth a high-ish pick based upon the pattern of the last couple years. Even Helm based on what Gaustad got should be worth 2nd or more.




#2489229 Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 03:23 PM

 

That's not happening. And you know why? The mid-late 2000s Flames were never the 1996-2009 Red Wings.

What does that have to do with anything? My point is the Wings have been following a recipe of mediocrity the last few seasons which leave them in the worst possible spot a team can be in: Too good for a high pick, too bad to be an actual contender. 




#2489225 Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 03:18 PM

Ever think that the "don't sell" order is coming from upstairs? Holland has people he reports to, and playoff games add a lot of cash.

Not if the Wings become the mid-late 2000s Flames and attendance drops. 




#2489220 Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?

Posted by Shaman on 04 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

Well, it seems that other teams are now the front-runners for the players the Wings were rumored to be interested in, at least the high-profile ones. And the low-profile ones that the Wings were linked to have gone suspiciously quiet. If past day-before-deadline behavior is any indicator, it looks like Holland will really stand pat.

In my opinion standing pat is the worst thing Holland can do at this point. 

 

The team either has to make a commitment to making a cup run, or call it a rebuilding year and move assets for the future. If they stand pat they probably eek into the playoffs, get eliminated early and Holland praises the fact the streak is still alive and they go into next offseason in the same position they were last year.