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The Secret

Member Since 22 May 2007
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#2534492 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Son of a Wing on 18 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

 

I understand that nobody is in the room, but you can't give the guy a pass on the bad because of it and only 'see' the good when someone signs.1. Ultimately, Holland's track record in FA signings isn't that good the last several years.

 

List of Holland's big signings (~$2M+/year) since the last Cup:

08-09 - Marian Hossa (1yr - not re-signed)

09-10 - None

10-11 - None

11-12 - Ian White (2yrs - not re-signed)

12-13 - Jordin Tootoo (3yrs - compliance buy-out)

12-13 - Carlo Colaiacovo (2yrs - compliance buy-out)

13-14 - Daniel Alfredsson (1yr - not re-signed as yet)

13-14 - Stephen Weiss (5yrs - played 26 games and scored 4 pts in year 1)

14-15 - Kyle Quincey (2yrs for a player Detroit was ready to walk away from)

 

The Suter/Parise snub was at least 'understandable' given the same money/term from Minnesota and the connection the players felt. Having Niskanen, Boyle, and Erhoff walk away from potentially more money in Detroit (in some reports) is more concerning. The fault isn't all on Holland, for sure, but top management should be looking in the mirror and trying to determine how to get better regardless of where you lay blame.

 

2. And, as someone else points out, FA isn't the only key to success. You have to draft well, too. So how many top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen has Holland picked up in the last six-seven drafts?

 

2008-09 - Gustav Nyquist

2009-10 - Tomas Tatar (maybe)

3.

2010-11 - None

2011-12 - None

2012-13 - None

2013-14 - Anthony Mantha (projected)

 

Drafts are much harder to judge especially for a draft-and-develop team like Detroit. The Wings do have a couple kids who still project well, too. But a lot don't. They are bottom-six / bottom pair grinders. It's drafting by a team/GM which relies on supplementing his home-grown talent with pick-of-the-litter FAs. You can't draft grinders and then not come through on the FAs...

 

The Wings haven't been a team which settles for 'serviceable' over the past few years. Is that what Detroit is becoming? 

 

1. Compared with what? Other GMs during the same span or Holland before the cap?  Because aside from one team (Minnesota), I don't see any teams stealing the show with free agents.

 

2. We currently have one of the deepest prospect pools in the NHL and develop more of our picks than almost anyone.  How many top players do you expect this team to develop??

 

3. Considering our prospects take about 5 years to develop, it's no surprise none since 2010/11 have proven top 4/6 status since most of them have barely even played in the league.




#2534445 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by DeGraa55 on 17 August 2014 - 10:13 PM

"Tanking" implies losing on purpose.  Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick.  Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working.  It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away.  The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples.
The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series.  They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win.  2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders.  Yzerman was the consolation prize.

 
Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps.  I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations.
 
Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off.  http://www.sbnation....es-age-analysis



So the colts losing the sexond best qb in football to injury had nothing to do with why they were bad. Teams have rebuilds like buffalo but even if they're bad I wouldn't consider it tanking. No coach or players would ever intentionally lose.


#2534459 Holland signs 4 year extension with wings **MOD Warning Post 130**

Posted by Barrie on 18 August 2014 - 05:42 AM

Good move.

 

I'm still not really sure what Holland could have done since 2009 to make things any better. We're rebuilding through the draft. With the Cap, and how over inflated the UFA market is, it's the way to go. We haven't missed out on a thing by not signing guys like Ehrhoff, Clarkson, and Wisniewski, or Suter or Parise to 13 years.




#2533005 Ferraro re-signed: 1-year $550K (2-way)

Posted by kipwinger on 25 July 2014 - 12:28 PM

f*** YEAH!  Did you guys hear the Wings just acquired a Fierro!

 

pontiac_e6a80.jpg

 

 

 

Ohhhhhh, a Ferraro.  Was it Ray?

 

No?

 

Oh, then I don't care!




#2532997 Ferraro re-signed: 1-year $550K (2-way)

Posted by krsmith17 on 25 July 2014 - 10:50 AM

My bet is he gets waived, clears and spends another year down in Grand Rapids. I'm really hoping Callahan sticks as the 14th forward and gets in some games...




#2530177 What's best for Mantha?

Posted by metalkorn on 05 July 2014 - 09:32 PM

No way should he start in Detroit... he has only played Junior.

Mackinnon is a class above this kid, numbers don't make a player in the Q - he put up good numbers, but I wouldn't say he is ready.

Martin Frk was playing with Mackinnon and was lighting it up for the Moose and then he turned out to be terrible for Grand Rapids and was buried, not sure why anyone expects that Mantha is going to make the team, would be cool to see him play a pre-season game perhaps but even if he scored 3 or 4 goals in a game I still think he owuldn't be with the big club Day 1... it wouldn't be good for him.... we aren't Edmonton.




#2524510 Shawn Thornton will not be returning to the Bruins

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 19 June 2014 - 01:31 AM

Gone are the McCarty Kocur types. In are the Helm, Miller, Draper types.


I miss the McCarty/Kocur types. :(

Ok I really just specifically miss the actual McCarty and Kocur, but whatevs.


#2524039 Shawn Thornton will not be returning to the Bruins

Posted by DeGraa55 on 16 June 2014 - 03:01 PM

I like Thornton and I would take him on the team. But actually he isn't what we need.

WE NEED a shanahan or probert type. A guy that can fight AND score. Even McCarty could score some. IIRC Thornton doesn't score much at all he is just a goon.

But since were most likely not going to add what we NEED Thornton would be an ok band aid fix....that Babcock wodnt use like tootoo lol


#2523619 Trading up?

Posted by RyanBarnes! on 12 June 2014 - 02:02 PM

Zetterberg for Ekblad?
 
If so, you cray cray.

I'd do it, and I dont think it would be very crazy. Zetterberg is nearing the end of his career and Ekblad is a possible franchise defenseman.


#2521040 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by Rivalred on 18 May 2014 - 10:47 AM

Babcock is the best coach in hockey for sure he won't be around for what looks to be some heavy rebuilding/tooling when contenders are going to offer him a lot of money and the chance to coach some young superstars.

Point being; Babcock is one, if not, one of the best coaches at the present moment and has done far more with less than what other teams have; team needs to strengthen the backend; like a reinforced diaper, to keep that crap contained, otherwise it leaks out everywhere and becomes a big mess.

Holland knows it, Babs knows it, the entire team knows it, all of Detroit and NHL fans know it, even the Eskimo who doesn't have internet and it takes 18 months to get a newspaper from 4 yrs again even knows it.


#2520070 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by GoWings1905 on 11 May 2014 - 10:43 PM

Who would you rather have? Mule or Rick Nash and his two goals in his last 28 playoff games? 


Hossa


#2519838 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by VM1138 on 09 May 2014 - 11:21 AM

I hate articles like this.  They're increasingly common.

 

Regner is clearly reaching for conclusions.  Nothing here indicates next year will be his last. 

 

What Babcock has stated in other interviews as well is that he can get a job anywhere, so he's not concerned with getting some long term big-money deal.  Only people who worry about the future of their careers do that.  He just wants to take it year by year.  That means he could be here another 10, or he could be gone next year.

 

Either way, nothing here supports Babcock's leaning one way or the other.  But hey, page hits, I guess.

 

I wrote this in another thread, but the whole coach getting stale thing doesn't really apply to Babcock anymore.  There's such a huge turnover in players that next year's team and the one after that will be almost entirely different than the ones during most of his tenure.  So it's like getting a fresh start.

 

Plus, Babcock loves coaching young guys and building their game.  He can do that in Detroit just as easily as anywhere else.  At least here he has competent management to work with.




#2515684 Classy move by Tootoo.

Posted by CapnSmitty on 24 April 2014 - 11:34 PM

That is my son! He was estastic when he got home with it! He even told me he was gonna learn to shoot righty (he's a lefty). Was a awesome act by Tootoo, and I know my son will not soon forget the gesture.


#2504440 Dive of the Year

Posted by Hockeymom1960 on 01 April 2014 - 08:21 PM

wj0HgvO.gif




#2504490 Detroit could be dangerous come playoff time...

Posted by BBD10 on 02 April 2014 - 07:16 AM

When we return Hank and Pav, we will add our two best to a team that has been playing great and young guys who have stepped up their game.  Our players will no longer be waiting on Hank or Pav to score all game long.  Nyquist might be one of the next greats for Detroit and hope that he continues his play when they come back.  Alfy, Nyquist, Hank, Pav, Helm, Franzen all healthy???  Who wants to draw them in the 1st round of the playoffs?  Crickets...