I was watching MSG...have to say, fair play to the Rangers announcers for being so much more even handed than most of the opposition I hear. They even mentioned that MSL may have accentuated the call near the end. Such a breath of Fresh air after listen to Chicago and Pittsburgh commentary
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lomekianMember Since 25 May 2007
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Posted by lomekian on 11 October 2014 - 08:38 PM
Again and again...the officiating in the NHL is of a spectacularly amateurish level compared to other major sports, It is so inconsistent that its hard for casual fans to be sure what the rules are or know what's going on and it turns them off. Hell I've been watching ice hockey for 20 years and I still can't tell when the f***-bags in the middle are going to make calls or not....and absolute joke in terms of consistency and professionalism, and there are so many games I've watched over the past 5 years where the officials have decided the outcome more than the players.
Apart for Bettman's golden boys, I don't even think its bias, just incompetence.
That said, wings were good again tonight, and if they can maintain those energy and skill levels, they'll be a lock for the playoffs
Posted by lomekian on 09 October 2014 - 10:23 PM
...a long time ago, before I was a member here, I was a contributing member of the old Detroit News chat forum, and I remember like it was yesterday I went ape s*** when they drafted Kindl... you say, what, you Lefty, going ape s***? No way! Yes, believe it! Anyhow I hated it when it happened, hated it when he started making appearances, but like most of us, warmed up to him a bit in the lockout season because he finally seemed to making a turn for the better. Boy we were ALL fooled! I am mad at myself for getting on his bandwagon for a bit, I usually do not do that (ie. Hudler, Franzen.) But I quickly fell out of favor with him again last season, as did many. I am not saying "I am right" "I told you so" but I am just remembering the day he was drafted (at that point the highest picked we have had in a long time.)
Drafts are a crap shoot, and yes, he was scouted as a top defender at the time, but something just didn't sit right with me drafting yet another soft European. I have since come off that stance on Europeans, but even when he was here for the first time all season, he just never impressed me. Even though his junior days were played in the OHL (Kitchener) and he learned (or seemed to be learning) the North American game. Now fast forward to this off season, and who was the guy we were pursuing hard to make our D better? Niskanen...who just happened to be drafted after Kindl. Again, crap shoot...and lately it seems that Holland has been doing awesome at his draft table, so I am not blaming Holland for Kindl, but as with a lot of drafts, damn what could've been...
...even Stralman went way after Kindl. Not saying we were the only ones who picked a dud, there are always duds. Have a great career Kindl, just not here anymore...
To be fair, considering that the wings are currently icing Dats, Zatta, Franzen, Ericsson, Helm, Nyquist, Quincey (talking draft only), Andersson, Nesty - the highest of whom was a third rounder...and also tats, Howard & Jurco in the 2nd, with Sproul, Oullette, Backman, Jensen, Mrazek, Athanasiou, Marchenko, Pulks, Callahan all 2nd round or (mostly condsiderably) lower drafting really isn't something wings fans can complain about. Sure we miss a few goodies, but seeing as pretty much the entire roster were players turned down by almost every other team at least once (and usually much more) lets not feel sorry for ourselves.
As for Kindl specifically, the guy has size and for the most part the requisite technical ability...he just doesn't have the game intelligence, bravery or speed of thought, These are usually things that come with experience rather more than has been the case with him. You look at the tools and its easy to see why he was picked where he was. Stick the mentality, drive and improvement rates of a helm, nyquist or even Callahan in him and you'd have the kind of player you'd feel good about spending a late 1st on. In fact if you could stick Almquist's game brain and confidence into Kindl, you would have the offensive 2nd pair man to drool over. But he'll always be a 6/7 here as he lacks the personal confidence, the coaches confidence and the comparative intestinal fortitude to stick. Its understandable...I wouldn't have the physical courage to play in the NHL.
He could do a quincy and flourish in the right system...We just have to hope that a few overtly offensive teams lose some D to medium term injuries ...
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Posted by lomekian on 29 July 2014 - 05:39 PM
It seems I am marginally more optimistic than the majority. Possibly because my philosphical stance is that if you can't apply hope to sport, then you may as well just watch the news about Gaza, Russia the economy etc...
1) The team will be healthier than last year, particularly our top 6 ; partly a lack of Olympics, partly less issues entering the season (gotta love those early playoff exits for healing), and partly because Weiss will be able to play and if clearly can't skate he'll be beaten out in camp. Having no trade value makes him easier for KH to waive. Inevitably Dats, Zatta, Ericsson, Franzen, Alfredsson and Kronwall will all miss a few games, but I think all will pass 60 having been rested.
2) While Nyquist won't get as hot and there will be more attention on Sheahan and Tatar, I still think the kids will take a step forward as a whole, and the 3 will combine for comfortably over 100 points.
3) Weiss will play most of the year and be underwhelmingly solid for 40 points.
4) The D will be a little better, partly because Quincey & Smith will be kept apart more and because both will start the year considerably better than they started last year. Dekeyser will produce a little more offence and Ericsson will play more down the stretch. Kindl will still infuriate but will put up 5-10 more points (or at least in terms of pace) due to a forward core more able to take advantage of his longer outlet passes.He'll occasionally be bumped out for Oullett/Marchenko/Sproul, but with either largely hold onto his spot or be packaged in a trade.
5) Howard will be a little better, Gus will be a little less lucky, but they'll be a solid tandom. Mrazek will put up great %'s in a few games against bad teams.
6) Helm's improved scoring touch will stay, and his PPG will increase again. Same to a lesser extent with Abdelkader, despite less top 6 ice-time.
7) Miller will continue to quietly effective in his role, never exciting anyone, but never letting anyone down and will get slightly higher point totals.
8) Glendenning will play less or on the wing.
9) If alfie comes back, his play will be remarkably similar to this year, but a lack of Olympics will stop him being useless down the stretch.
10) Franzen will get more time with Nyquist, and as a result will put up more than 0.75PPG and will get 25 goals+ despite going on a run of 5 points in 20 games at some stage.
Mantha will be out-played by Jurco (before he sticks in the big club) in the Minors but will finish with 30+ goals in GR. The Grand Rapids PP will miss Almquist, but Sproul will get much improved points totals.
Babcock will continue to get half the team to over-perform, despite line combinations that make no sense in half the games. Holland will continue to get blamed by fans for things beyond his control, while journalists try to give him credit for things equally beyond his control.
The Wings to finish 5-7 in the conference but with a bit more breathing room and to get a better playoff match-up before losing in the ECSF in a blackhawks style tight series. Babcock to ride off into the sunset to much mixed opinions, and the team to do better in FA next summer as the wings splash out to get the 1 last shot for D & Z.
These predictions are dependent on Alfie re-signing.
Posted by lomekian on 26 June 2014 - 08:56 AM
As KH is going to qualify him, I really think this is the best outcome for the wings. If we had signed him, he would have got picked up off waivers for some bottom feeder with an imbalanced roster, while earning league minimum, and bouncing between the NHL and AHL while learning the ropes. This way he gets to earn good money and be guaranteed high level games, and we get to keep his rights rather than losing him for nothing.
The staff all seem to agree that he was ready skill-wise and smarts-wise, but not physically. So this way they get to keep an eye on him while he develops, and if he ever manages to put on the extra 20-25 lbs that would make him big enough to play in the NHL for one not so tall or quick, we get first dobs. Indeed that way things were spoken of by AA and the wings brass suggests that this is an outcome that suits both parties and that both aniticipated and to a degree planned for.
He really is an incredibly smart player, but was so small when he started that he is still too small with his limited size increase..this was shown in the AHL playoffs where 2 years in a row he got injured (although both hits were very late and dirty as hell and should have led to suspensions). If you are a go to puck mover you have to be able to take the inevitable punishment aimed at you better than he currently can. If he gets to 26 and weighs 195, it would be great to bring him back, as a PP QB he is undoubtedly better than anyone on the big club not called Kronwall and any of the prospects bar Sproul. He didn't look out of place at NHL level, but his small frame meant they had to keep him sheltered, and more so than was reasonable long term. I, like many others, feel that if you are going to shelter Kindl's lack of intensity and Lashoff's lack of ability, then perhaps it was worth giving AA more games to see how he would cope, but then this is expecting too much from a coach that won't play Smith on the powerplay, thinks that Abledakder is a viable top line option rather than an effective occasional plug in, and seems determined to not keep or re-unite effective lines. (I still can't get over putting legwand on the 4th line when the two players he had chemistry with, Nyquist and Franzen, were struggling).
It doesn't indicate that, "get an opportunity to play" indicates that some players especially younger guys would prefer to play in the KHL then in the minors. But your right most guys that have tasted the NHL don't leave unless they are forced to ( take the hint: Cleary), but now and again you do see some younger players go play in Russia or threaten to go back to Sweden. Doesn't mean they are not good enough to play in the NHL, players like to use the KHL as leverage, but sometimes I think they're bluff gets called and at that particular moment some of them prefer to go overseas for a couple years. They can make more than in the minors and can come back at any time. Taking out the fact that Radulov is Russian, the guy is getting paid something like 9 mil to play in the KHL, I too doubt that his childhood dream was to play in Russia, but he's not approaching 9 mil at the NHL level, so why not.
Worked out ok for Hudler!
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Posted by lomekian on 03 May 2014 - 07:39 PM
I'm not sticking up for Franzen by any means. I'd like to see him replaced. But until there is someone to replace him, we kind of need him. For depth. Also, he isn't solely here to put the puck in the net. He is also here to be responsible defensively. Outside of that unfortunate turnover, he has been. If Franzen was getting paid to be a danger to put the puck in every single night, he would be making more money than he is now. That I can guarantee you.
This is pretty much exactly what I got taken apart for saying in the other thread, but with slightly more positivity. No point paying a guy 20m to go away when he can still contribute to some degree and we have no one ready to replace him yet. . His cap hit is representative of the player he is, and to date has been pretty good value. Franzen in beast mode all the time would be a 6-7m player, no problem.
Franzen was the only player on the team I saw put Lucic on his backside, he led all forwards in blocked shots, he had twice as many takeaways than giveaways and set up all kinds of scoring chances that didn't get buried.
There was bad too, he took a lot of bad shots, the turnover's he had ended up in our net and he couldn't bury any of the chances he had, but he wasn't close to the worst forward for the Wings during that series.
Ah yes....factual information! How dare some one use statistical analysis to counter gut feeling, emotional reactions and fan logic of visible effort = more contribution. People have even wanted Tootoo ahead of him because he hits and fights....and does almost nothing else. Sure, a skilled guy who works his ass off is better than one that doesn't, but a skilled guy with variable effort levels is often better than a no-skill guy that tries as hard as he can......
This. A Warrior through, and through.
Despite my earlier comment, I really wanted Tootoo to succeed here, but ultimately he's not good enough for a team aspiring to play any sort of possession game, either skill wise or tactically. His signing made a lot of sense, but it didn't work for either party, and if his time in Grand Rapids shows us anything, he really needs a change of scenery asap.
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Posted by lomekian on 28 April 2014 - 05:50 AM
Some people just like to *****. Some love repeating "I told you so." A lot do both.
Yep, Jarnkrok could turn out to be a stud. He could also fizzle out like a lot of other prospects. Most likely he'll end up somewhere in the middle. But to proclaim this deal the equivalent to the Tigers' John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander trade is rashly premature (even though the Tigers got exactly what they wanted in that deal).
The fact is, Holland WAS desperate, but justifiably so. He, the rest of management, the ownership, and the players wanted to keep the playoff streak alive. So when Helm went down with yet another injury, the Wings' top center was Joakim Andersson. Talk about something to ***** about! A move for a veteran center HAD to be made at the deadline. Holland didn't have a choice. Season ticket holders, the media, the fans, and all the sweating, keyboard-pounding know-it-alls would have torched the Joe had the Wings iced Andersson as the 1C for the rest of the season. "Why didn't Holland make a deal at the deadline? He could have traded Kindl for a number one center! Instead he kicked my dog!" Moreover, every other GM in the league knew it. So when Holland called, they played hardball, and the Wings had to make their best offer, even though it stings.
The Wings still have Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Mantha, Oullette, Marchenko, Mrazek, and others whose names I can't remember/spell in the system. If half of these players turn out half as good as many suggest, the Wings will be winning the Cup soon and often. The future can't be that bleak after losing one of their prospects in a trade.
No to mention the Wings have Dats, Zetterburg, Weiss, Helm and at this rate possibly Legwand signed up for at least 2 years and in most cases more, With sheahan, athanaseau & Janmark in the pipeline. The team's need for a centre at the deadline is greater than their need over the next two years, which was Jarnkrok's window to make the team. The very fact that people are ambivalent about re-signing a proven veteran 40-55 point centre from the local area, suggest that CJ would have had a struggle to get much time going forwards without a sudden explosion in output.
Posted by lomekian on 27 April 2014 - 07:32 PM
Yawn, you can stat us to death and ignore all the ones that disprove your theories. Find the stat that refutes that his own coach didn't think he was doing enough.
Because Empirical evidence is less useful than emotional reactions to a disappointing end to a tough season where much of the team played badly.?
So the stat that a limited player scored 1 more goal than him, in first round playoffs, where a s*** load of better paid players on better teams got zero goals, less points and worse +/- scores than Franzen means that he's worthless and totally overrides the generally positive statistical output over the course of the last few regular seasons, which give him a better points per dollars ratio than most veterans in the league.
And you accuse me of cherry picking stats? Despite the fact I have several times acknowledged his streaky form and disappointing late season and playoff output, and am trying to look at management decisions from a removed perspective.
I'm sorry that you find my holding a contrary viewpoint so offensive, and that my capacity to elucidate my opinion in a manner that outlines a cohesive argument as to my standpoint makes you yawn.
Too many words?
What a clown. Do you watch hockey? Fil plays defense and actually makes an effort. Franzen floats floats and does some more floating.
Do you watch hockey? Why the f*** would anyone be posting on here the day after we get bumped out of the playoffs if they didn't. Whenever people actually try to use this as a form of argument on these board, the universe gets slightly more inarticulate and intolerant.
Just to correct something I've seen misstated a few times in this thread, Alfie made only 500k more than Franzen this year. Franzens cap hit is just under 4, his salary this year was 5.
Fair enough.....I was thinking in cap hit rather than salary. I stand corrected.
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Posted by lomekian on 27 April 2014 - 06:07 PM
If Legwand re-signs and gets used in a more appropriate manner by the coach its a good trade. If not we just about lost.
We needed a centre...and there weren't any others moving.
Much of the criticism or desire not to re-sign Legwand is on the assumption that Weiss will be back to 50+ points form next year, which is unlikely even if it does happen the year after. With Z's back playing up more often, a Centre who can contribute now is important, and the captain will be mostly playing wing from here on in I think.
Of course this comes down to how important you think the playoff streak is & how high you rate Jarnkrok.
For me the streak is massively important
1) The money - even our first round exit essentially pays for Legwand's annual salary
2) Marketing prestige. The longest current playoff streak is a big thing.
3) Player prestige. Added to the lure of Dats & Z, and the new pipeline of kids, the willingness of a GM to trade away prospects/picks to ensure that you make the playoffs sends a message to FAs and current players. We are totally committed to giving ourselves a shot at the playoffs EVERY year. Most teams will rely on geography, quality of life or current roster levels to attract players. The Wings are one of a very small selection who will take risks to make the playoffs.
And of course, who knows what happens in the playoffs. Rask gets Howard Flu and Chara tweaks something and suddenly its a much more even series. Gotta buy a ticket etc.
Also, much as I like Jarnkrok, his value to us wasn't as great as we once thought. Another small playmaker in a team quite well stocked in 2 way playmakers, in a team desperate to get bigger, a desperation increased by the emergence of Tatar and Nyquist as two more small NHL quality forwards. I also think the leaps forward of AA & Janmark (gorgeous assist yesterday) made this trade more palatable. And if we draft a quality centerman this year or next, and Legwand re-signs Jarnkrok will have to get near his ceiling to make us really regret it.
Its like Adam Oates. He went on to have a great career. His departure freed up space for Feds, Primeau (who got us shanny) and Larianov. Indeed His demands for a raise at STL led to the merry go round that made Shanny possible. We won 3 cups and he didn't....ultimately even the worst trade in wings history paved the way for the dynasty that followed.
Posted by lomekian on 27 April 2014 - 05:03 PM
The Wings didn't hand him an 11 year contract because they wanted to lock up a 2nd liner for the next decade. Especially one who doesn't score in the playoffs. They may know exactly what he is now, but it's not what they hoped he'd be in 2009.
It is why Franzen is likely staying here though. He'll put up his points assuming he stays healthy. He just isn't THE guy and never will be. So the Wings can keep him for some second line scoring during the regular season but need to find a goal scorer who plays like he gives a s*** and will put up points in the playoffs.
I'm guessing it'll be at least a couple more seasons until he becomes so intolerable that Holland will buy him out or make a trade.
Agree - If the wings want a premium goal scorer, they need to get one and pay for him. Franzen is a 2nd liner who has bad streaks and good streaks. He is paid accordingly.....he should have been paid a little more for 2 years and less down the line, but right now he gets paid what he's worth in comparison to others.
His goals come in an increasingly smaller amount of games. Don't get caught up on 30 goals a year. If you count them by games its probably like 15. He's fine if we use him as a third liner but Babcock won't. So get rid of him. I think we need to re-evaluate the roles of players. All of our frustrations come from players who are forced into the wrong roles. Franzen is not a top 6 scorer. He is occasional secondary scoring forward. Abdelkader is not a top line power forward, and hence frustration there. Holland and Babcock need to recalibrate the lineup based on roles players can actually play and go from there. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
I think we can all find common ground on this one...
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Posted by lomekian on 27 April 2014 - 12:49 PM
Franzen or Lucic. Which would you rather have? Money is about the same, goals per year is about the same. Franzen can't be Lucic and that is who/what we need. But we get to watch Franzen for 6 more years! Ok maybe 2 more playing then pay for him for another 4. That 4 then becomes 8.
Lucic costs 50% more and players like him are pretty hard to get hold of in the first place.
Do you watch the games or do you look at the boxscores ?
Franzen made 3 bad turnovers yesterday, one of them cost us a goal the other two created odd man rushes the other way. Put Nyquist with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and he will outscore Franzen but play a complete game.
He also came close with 2 good scoring chances and forced 2 really good saves from Rask. But of course no-one else's turnovers count.
No-one is saying he is perfect. It just makes no strategic sense to get rid of him at this point unless something else is happening for sure.
People trying to turn this into a black or white either/or need to look at the reality.
Hockey isn't purely an exercise in statistics...you can't look at Franzen and say "he got us 41 pts...OK" You have to look at the actual games. He's shown NOTHING in the playoffs the last few years and his production in a major portion of the regular season was equally poor. You simply cannot have a guy getting top six minutes sleepwalk through the majority of your games.. Send a message to the team about consistency of effort and dump him now...
Until we have someone to replace him, someone has to score those points. Dead wood leaves, cap goes up and worst case scenario we're stuck with and over-priced 3rd liner who occasionally goes on good runs.
Posted by lomekian on 27 April 2014 - 07:34 AM
As I've said before, I'm fairly ambivalent. But its always easier to identify with support the guys who give it total effort every game while actually getting sweet FA done. There is no doubt Franzen is in decline and his health/personality issues are increasingly becoming a factor.
Equally, I read the comments on here after and during games (not last night!) and wonder if people are watching different games. He's defensively pretty responsible, still makes good rushes and despite his finishing being all kinds of awful over the last month, he's still been getting chances every game. He's missed with too many, but he had as many decent chances as anyone in our roster not named Datsyuk or a speedster with stone hands.
The criticism he receives online is not a fair reflection of his game, up and down and declining as he is. If he was getting paid 1m less, skated around like a lunatic and put up half the reg season points with a similar plus minus he'd be a lot more accepted.
There are obvious concerns going forwards. But equally, he's still worth the money now. There is certainly an argument for buying him out, but how does Holland convince Chris Ilitch of that.
"So Franzen,,,,we're worried about his cap hit 2-6 years from now. So what you should do is spend $24m of your money buying him out while we can, despite the fact that he still puts up 0.65 PPG in the reg season, and likely will remain above .5ppg for the next couple of years, despite the fact that not only do we have roster short of points scorers and very little with any trade worth AND the fact that we are finally losing the majority of the AWFUL contracts I've been handing out to FA's over the last 3 years. Oh yeah and Franzen's cap hit is still less than my latest FA signing who hasn't played most of the year, has been invisible when he has, and is still injured. And We'll have about 10-15m cap space this summer after signing our RFAs, depending on Alfie.
Would love to be the fly on the wall for that one.....
Getting rid of Franzen resolves a problem down the line, but adds to our current ones. If the playoff streak is as important to the management and board as the Legwand deal would suggest, I just can't see it happening.
And don't forget, if things get as bad as people fear, there is always LTIR for his concussions or 'issues'.
For me, it just doesn't make good management sense to buy him out UNLESS, there is more information regarding his injury or mental issues than we know of.
It would also probably help if Babcock's line combo's actually encouraged chemistry rather than destroying it when its been established. Franzen plays a ton better with Nyquist or Zetts or both than he does with Dats or Helm.
If we don't get rid of him by buyout or trade then put him on the 3rd line and don't move him off of it. No reason he should be in the top 6 doing nothing.
He can chip in when he wants on the 3rd line but he shouldn't be rewarded for being lazy.
No problem with this....especially as heating up can get rewarded with more ice time. Seeing as its so visible when he hits beast mode, it should be easy enough for management to juggle. He makes a very good if slightly overpaid 3rd liner or a massively inconsistent and thus unreliable good-ish value second liner.
Its also worth remembering that his cap hit was back loaded. Pay him less than he's worth for 2-3 years to pay him more than he's worth the rest.