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Wing Across The Pond

Member Since 05 Jul 2007
Offline Last Active Today, 04:14 PM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Las Vegas rumored to get an expansion team

05 August 2015 - 02:57 PM

Went there in March. The investment in infrastructure is staggering. Arenas popping up all over, many of which, I imagine, will be multi-purpose. If anything the city is a perfect revenue spinner for any team that heads there. Imagine if the Yotes could just have Celine Dion have a few shows in their barn and take a cut of it. Money.


In Topic: Who is the better player Zetterberg or Toews. Prime vs. Present

03 August 2015 - 03:30 PM

Okay I can level with people who said Z prime and Toews now. 

 

Still don't buy the Toews prime > Z prime

This. I think GMR said it best though, are we talking years of top play, or 'peak', as in each player at their very best? Think either way Z takes it.

 

Question- 

 

So if Z scores 80 points next season and Toews scores 65 and both replicated average time on ice and takeaways what do we conclude with that?

 

Say in playofffs 2016 they replicate similar numbers. 

 

 "Number's don't mean anything, Toews still better?" - Just curious so we have the opinions before the season starts. 


I know Toews has the added factor that he still kills penalties and Z rarely does anymore (unless Blashill decides to put him and Dats back on penalty killing for some reason). But aside from that fact. 

I reckon it would be concluded that Z is better. He's had injuries, especially with the back, and if it can be seen that he's over that and back to his best then him outscoring Toews would go a long was to help his argument. However I don't think scoring is everything. The PK would give Toews an edge, but having said that Z had 10 more blocked shots last year (26 to 16) and Miller lead the league in forwards - does that mean Drew is in the mix? Of course not. People bring different things and I think that's why it's been so difficult to separate these two.

 

If they had the points you quoted, with similar ice-time, it still wouldn't be enough to draw much of a reasonable conclusion as, say, 25% of Toews ice time would be on the PK. 75% of Z's 80 points would be 60. So for his ES time Toews would be doing better.

 

But hey, spreadsheets aren't everything (although I personally love them).

 

EDIT: I thought I'd also say (and I may be the first person to say it) that Z is without doubt far better value for money. But that's very little to do with either player, just a factor in the case of "which would you pick?" Toews, I feel, would have accepted less than what he was offered, but when they offered Kane his contract, they felt they had to offer Toews the same. He'd be a moron if he said "nah, just give me $8m-per". Our front office has always been a bit clever with the cap.


In Topic: Who is the better player Zetterberg or Toews. Prime vs. Present

03 August 2015 - 01:39 PM

I can't help feeling partly responsible for this thread :/

 

You can't just say "Hank never had the skill Toews has" without giving some good details to this. 

 

Here I'll say it.

 

Zetterberg (in prime) was better than Toews (in prime) in all aspects of hockey except faceoffs and shootouts. Everything else. Z was better. If someone can prove otherwise I'm all ears.... 


This is the point of this thread. Lot of people want to say Toews was better. Or Z was better. But not much is said when asked about HOW Toews is better.

 

"Well TSN said it so it must be true" 

^ I'd say they're probably pretty even in faceoffs you know. I swear this year I saw them doing more of a Draper with Z, getting him in for draws and then pulling him.

 

For those into advance metrics I found this pretty interesting :

 

http://thehockeywrit...e-hall-of-fame/

 

 

When Zetterberg is on the ice, he starts more of his shifts outside of the offensive zone, plays with higher quality teammates, plays against a higher quality of competition, and the team generates the 2nd highest percentage of shot attempts at the opposing net. That is extremely impressive, especially when you consider the fact that the best players of his generation are on this graph.

 

Basically Z was being compared to Datsyuk, Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin and Sedins. Here's the link for the graph:

 

http://i2.wp.com/the...12.45.24-PM.png

 

This is pre 2015 season ofcourse. Which wasn't very good for Z 

^ Doesn't Z hold the record for the most amount of consecutive 2-shot games? Went on for like 2 seasons? So I can see that.

 

It seems like you're trying to show that Zetterberg is better by arguing that Toews isn't that good.  Which is a pretty weak argument.  Toews' accomplishments speak for themselves.  Why not just acknowledge that Toews is a SUPER good hockey player.  But that Zetterberg was even better for a few years there?  Not sure why you're trying to tear one down to build the other up?

^ Yeah my initial point in the Quick-on-snipers thread was that Toews wasn't overrated at all. Doesn't mean that Z wasn't unreal.

 

For the record, I said Z prime, Toews currently.


In Topic: Jonathan Quick on snipers, including Datsyuk

31 July 2015 - 01:00 PM

Or not.

 

Toews is one of the best leaders in the league and one of the best complete forwards. However; his offensive ability is no where near the level of guys like Ovie, Stamkos, Crosby, Datsyukian vision, Kane stickhandling, Perry, Getzlav, Thornton's vision (before he started sucking this past year), Malkin, and many others.

 

Notice how in the article he mentions "Kane and Toews". Yet it mostly talks about Kane specialties which are very unique. Toews is mentioned as "constantly moving, constantly working" etc. Those are some very generic words that could be applied to lots of players in the league. None of the stuff mentioned about him really stands out to me as related to "Elite Snipers 101" as the article is titled.

 

Toews is a hot commodity and is often times mentioned for the sake of being mentioned. He's emerging into the face of this league. This happens in tons of sports, it's nothing unusual. 


I actually respect Toews. I just don't like it when players are overrated for things they shouldn't be. 


It was the same thing when Yzerman told the media that "Toews is a better player than I ever was". I mean really? Lol

 

Everyone knows thats bs. Toews himself basically said it (in a nice way).

 

I agree it never mentions Toews individually, but is it a way of saying Toews is integral to making Kane an elite sniper? I know in terms of this article it may be overrating him, but he's in no way an overrated player.

 

Toews is overrated for sure no matter which way you slice it. Zetterberg is better then Toews.

 

Debatable. Z is still beast, but runs out of gas more and more. As has been said he is on a downward trend, yet I do still think he's a league leader. Also the two statements have nothing to do with one another. Even if it was unanimously agreed that Z was better that Toews, that in no way means Toews is overrated. He's still a damn fine player.


Yeah it was the second video I was thinking of. That was such a huge goal in that series

He also scored an almost identical goal the next season if I remember?


In Topic: Jonathan Quick on snipers, including Datsyuk

30 July 2015 - 12:56 PM

Good read, although i felt like the Toews part was a bunch of bs and its the usual way of overrating him.

 

Or is it really that he's a great player getting his props, and people are trashing him because they simply don't like him? It's not like one guy is constantly saying "Toews is amazing, top 5 player", it's pretty widespread that he's being praised, which makes me think it's most likely true. Especially when it's current players saying it.