Wing Across The Pond

Hi, I'm Gabriel, and occasionally I like to come on and dish out some logic in the face of illogical statements.

In reality, my post had little to do with the actual Suter and Parise and more with the concept of them. As a free agent, what would attract people to Detroit? The glamour seems to be gone. However, I should have realized that people are too butt-hurt over those two choosing the Wild to be able to think rationally and have an intellectual discussion about such an abstract concept.

$90M for 12 years and $98M for 13 years are ALMOST AN IDENTICAL CAP HIT. $7.5M/yr. vs. $7.538M/yr. Would you still consider it a handcuff if Suter were a Wing for a mere $38,000/yr less?

Never did I say anything about being a second tier franchise. Just because the competition has increased their level through 'parity' does not mean that the Wings have necessarily lowered theirs. However, if there are multiple teams than can be considered legitimate playoff contenders, simply going to Detroit "for a shot at winning" doesn't have the same draw.

Nice personal attack. When you can't, or won't, discuss an issue, feel free to attack another person's fan-ness. My point in the original post was to see what other fans think Detroit can do to possibly change the perception (if there is one) about committing to the Wings. A city in disarray and a team that continually derided as too old and past their prime.

If I were given the choice between two major cities and nearly identical contracts, I'd look at it in a 'numbers' sense as well..
You'll pay 3% more in personal income taxes in Minnesota (Suddenly, your extra $8Mil is $2.94Mil less).
Also, the cost of living is 28% higher in Minneapolis - http://www.bestplace...&city2=52743000

Given factors like that, the dollars make more sense for Detroit.

I realize that Suter/Parise wanted to play together and that is a mitigating factor that you can't place a value on. I just want to discuss the changing dynamics behind the concept.

Firstly, I'm glad you put 'ALMOST' in there, because they're no where near identical cap hits. 12 years would get both players off the books in the 39th year, 13 years would be 40th. That's an extra year at $7.5 when they'll most likely be crappy shells of their former selves. So whilst similar in yearly numbers, not so in practice. For a GM that's a difference maker.

As for the second point, if Detroit hasn't lowered their standards then there is still the lure of a chance at winning. What you've put out is close to an unfalsifyable statement, in that I can counter it with an equally valid yet opposite statement and neither can be proved right or wrong. If 'parity' means that more teams have a chance of winning, yet Detroit hasn't necessarily lowered their chances, then yes there will be more teams with a good chance of success yet Detroit will still be in the same strong position only with company. That doesn't mean their appeal for players lowers. See my point? I love my iMac, but those nice new Windows laptops have really closed the gap in regards to performance and technology. Still, iMacs haven't got any worse so I'll stick with them. Make sense?

1. I agree with you on this - BUT - he was not prepared to lose Lids.
2. Regarding Schultz - he went to the place where the young players have a chance to develope and play in NHL.

Other than that, I agree with you... and the worst part is that Holland will sign Carle for $25M/5 years and that's even worst than overpaying for Suter...

Unfortunately he went to a place where they only have young players looking to develop. By the time they have done, they'll be priced out of that team and will spend their prime years elsewhere. And who is to say that a whole team of young player will even develop as they should without veteran presence at all levels? I understand his decision, but don't necessarily agree. That being said, also don't mind that he didn't end up here as there is no guarantee he'd have faired well or suffered in the NHL. Could have been a risk.

Regardless of these two guys not coming here, if anyone honestly believes this team is as appealing as it was let's say 5 years ago, you are only fooling yourself. In the last two seasons we have lost two ELITE defensemen and our stars are only getting older. I don't think it's as bad as some people are making it out to be, but we certainly aren't the be all-end all like we once were.

I must be fooling myself then because this team is always appealing to me. But that's only because I support them and will during thick and thin. They may not be as successful in years to come but I'll still love watching them and will still cheer every goal and wish them to do well each and every night. That's what I understand as 'appealing'.

I read a couple of articles today that reference the Wings' inability to land Suter or Parise. I'm beginning to think long gone are the days of the hometown discount and the 'head to Detroit and you've got a shot at a championship' mentality. With the parity that currently exists, any team has a shot at winning.

Yes, there's a tradition of success. Yes, there's 4 Cups in the last 15 years. However, there's just as many first/second round exits and early playoff exits. Other than consistently making the playoffs - what sets Detroit apart as a choice for someone's career? Nothing tangible.

Sure, there are the intangibles - the history, Original Six, 11 Cups, Gordie Howe, etc.. but those have very little to do a person's day-to-day working life or home life.

I was just pondering all this.. what say you?


http://www.freep.com...ise-free-agency


http://www.foxsports...362&feedID=3706

The first point here, you use in reference to the Wings failing to land two players who decided to sign for a team close to their homes. Everyone has a different 'hometown'. Much like we managed to convincce Mike Modano, only the best American-born player in NHL history, to put off retirement for a year and sign for a hometown discount in the state where he was born and raised. Unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances it didn't pan out as it could have but proves the point that everyone has different homes.

The second point is a bit of an odd one, because being one of the winningest teams in NHL history, there are far more teams that have more 'first/second round exits' than the Wings. In fact there are far more teams that don't even make the playoffs year on year... Calgary would wish for a first round exit after these recent years.

Even if the Red Wings had matched Minnesota's offers to both, it probably wouldn't have mattered.

“You read today where they’re happy to be going as a pair and they’re both going home,'' Holland said. “Those are some of the things we couldn’t compete against because we’re not (their) home.''

Reference for the above point about 'hometown discount'.

Dominator2005, youre the only one who realizes that Holland lost a race.  If hes willing to offer 180 mil to 2 guys, why not go the extra mile and offer 8 mil a season to land em both.  In 7 years, cap will be 80-90 million and the extra mil a season will be so meaningless.  We lost 2 great players and our gm stinks.  Those are the facts.

Non-bold: Maybe Holland didn't lose a race here. He simply got to a point that was financially viable and make the decision not to go over the top and risk future money. Hence not offering an extra $8m. Deciding to not throw more money and risk losing a contract is a stronger, more ballsy decision than doing it. People might criticise him for doing it but it makes this team stronger going forward than if we had them for that long. If it was 7/8 years then maybe not as much, but 13 is a long time and I think he made a good choice. Also the cap doesn't simply rise a la inflation. It can very well go down. We'd be boned if it did (as MIN will be if it does).
Bold: Those aren't facts at all. They are opinions. Why they are not facts? I think 1 is a great player and 1 is a good defenceman who can give solid play but is in no way elite. Also I think Holland is a damn good GM. See, not facts. Opinions.

It doesnt matter why.  Facts are: 1) we dont have either Lidstrom, Shultz, parise or suter, and 2) we have bertuzzi, sammuelson, gustavson, and tootoo.  That is crappy general management by definition.

1) Those ARE facts (see above point). As are those at 2) yet everything else is once again opinion. Not sure how it's crappy management either considering Lidstrom made his own decision (Holland didn't tell him to retire), Schultz is unproven, and Parise and Suter either wanted too much money or wanted to play closer to home. If anything I'm thinking that limiting yourself with money and thinking about the sustained future of the organisation rather than the next 10 years is a good thing. If you're going on age here as well, Gustavsson and Tootoo are both 27, same as Parise and Suter (I only say as people seem to think that Tootoo is old for some reason?!) Yes they're not as accomplished as P & S but one's a goaltender and one's a physical forward. Bert and Sammy also have the experience over all 3 of Parise, Suter and Schultz which can count for everything down the line.

People are acting like we lost Dats, Z, Flip, Helm, etc in all this and that we're falling apart. I think we'll be ok, maybe not as dominating as we've been in the past, but come on, we're not the Thrashers here.

Probably because they are stupid, and more willing to put their franchise into cap hell than we are?

Listen, I wanted Suter here, but...  he's not elite.  The cash he's going to get is far more than he's worth.

Kind of how I feel at the moment. Really wanted him here bad, but might have had to do with the gaping hole on our blue line this year. If he's FA last year then I don't necessarily care about him. Plus I don't trust the hype about a guy who half a year ago was overshadowed by his defensive teammate in Weber. He could by the sort of guy that will lose the hype in a season and then will have 12 years left. I understand Lidstrom was the greatest of this generation but he was always mentioned when discussing great defencemen. Suter seemed to appear when it became clear a lot of teams would be bidding during Free Agency.

That being said, I'm seriously disappointed that we didn't land him, we really needed him but he's in no way the stellar defensive talent that will be a key foundation to build a franchise around. Just he was available without having to give anything up but money. Unfortunately we now need to trade Obviously he made a decision based on the rest of his family life... and his secret life with Zach Parise   lol kidding

I don't mind this signing at all. He'll give the 4th line some identity. Hopefully Abdelkader will follow his lead. He's a hard hitter, drops the gloves, and very annoying.

I like it.

This. Man that 4th line was painful to watch last year with Emmerton and Homer on it. Had no identity and looked irrelevant every time it took the ice. This signing changes that.

I understand that this is a polarising signing, but seriously, what are you going to do? Stop supporting the Wings? What if they prove to be steller signings and help win us the cup this year? Don't necessarily think that disliking someone for their past actions should preclude them from doing well in the future and turning a new leaf. Avery wasn't a d*** when he came here, why would you think Tootoo would be?

There's still a lot of time to sign free agents and we have a lot of pieces to trade if needs be so we're in a pretty strong position on all fronts - have cap space to sign FAs, have pieces to trade, have depth so that trades don't criple us.

I'm still going to support the Wings no matter what and support the players who put on that jersey every night and go out there and give their all to win. If someone does something reprehensible I'll ***** about them letting us down, but if they play good clean hockey and have a real desire to win then I'll love them. Don't knock someone for their past indiscretions, everyone has them and no one wants to be defined by them.

Pierre has it on good authority that the Pens are front runners to sign every free agent available: Suter, Parise, Garrison all want to be in PIT SOOOO BAD. Pierre says so.......



....fool

I shall say (Holmstrom - Howard) + Smith = 63

Sounded much bettter than saying Joakim Andersson

Agreed. These premadonnas are a diamond dozen. It's a doggy dog world out there so these kids shouldn't be taking stuff like this for granite.

I nearly threw my chair across the room and prepared to punch you from over 3000 miles away as the crow flies... but the granite settled me down I was born in the 1990 so I don't remember those pre-Madonna days but I'm sure they were better for the overall standard of music

They beat the #1, #2, & #3 in the west. That's a pretty awesome accomplishment. Good luck to them in the finals.

If the Rangers get there as well... they could win a perfect cup (sort of). #1, #2, #3, and #1... technically speaking the 4 toughest teams you could draw.

You lost me at 'trade Ericsson'. I think he's been big towards the end of this season and our PK suffered with his injury. He's the best defensive dman we've got.

Not to mention Lids will/should get $2mill. I sincerely hope he can do that for this team. After getting $7-$8mill a year for probably 10+ of the 20 years he's been here, I'm sure he's got enough to last him. After all it's not like he's not going to get another job somewhere, i.e. here as a coach or scout. It'll be sweet if he takes sort of £1.5-2mill.

Plus I want Iginla with the temptation of a playoff appearance/challenge. Man that would be sweet. But I'm biased and just love the guy. Always plays with heart and passion and can still score. If Calgary decided to rebuild (which he's on record as saying he's not in favour of) throw him $3-4mill I'd say

Ironically, if everyone posted something when they viewed, this thread would have well over 1000 posts by now

Lets Go Wings!

Tell me how you call yourself a fan. Do you have any optimism at the beginning of the season? Are you only happy if your team is loaded with superstars?

You called this team a failure when they lost in Game 7 in 2009 because that was the one time you got to see them live. Well boo hoo how about all the real fans that would love to take a trip to the Joe to see their team? You say you won't go to the Joe unless they have a legit chance at winning the Cup. I live in St Louis and I would pay a lot of money to just go see a regular season game in Detroit. You aren't a fan, you just want to be associated with a winner so you get upset when the team doesn't go 82-0 and sweep the playoffs

+1'd your ass, because this is exactly how I feel. Poor you Lenny for getting to go to Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final at the Joe. Going to the Joe for me, would cost upwards of about $1000, you know, considering a plane ticket across the Atlantic, hotel costs, then not to mention a game ticket?! I mean you go and actually watch the team so you must like or support them in some way? Why not show it? Have some faith for goodness sake that they can at least take the next game, and then really it's who can keep their head. It's 3 seperate 1-game series for Detroit. I'm not saying that they can continue coasting and not hustling as they have been at times because they really need to start shooting from good areas, main thing. All I'm getting at is that for us, it's do or die, and I'll ALWAYS pick them to do. Otherwise what's the point in caring?

Why the heck not? I'm still going to be hoping for us to win this series, so why on earth would I say no? Yeah, it's probably naive but if it's still possible then I'm always going to believe we can win it. Been watching this team for a good few years now and I know what they are capable of if they want to.

Franzen needs to pull his finger out and get in front of the net, Z need to stop taking up office BEHIND the net and get in the slot (I honestly don't remember a shot from the slot all game last night), Rinne is a big guy but he's down on his pads early and it's really his sprawling reach that saves him. Get a shot high on his blocker side and he'll have trouble. I mean this goal says it all, Rinne goes down way before Dats pulls the trigger and then can't get his shoulder up in time.



He's not unbeatable but pucks need to get up off the ice, not stay low and hope they go between the pads. If they're intent on playing the game behind the net then have a guy waiting in the slot because when Rinne hugs the post he stays down, he rarely stands back up when the puck comes out front. That actually frees up a lot of net.

I'm still a believer and always will be. Because this is the team that I love and I'll never bet against them.

Fighters are losing their role in the game across the league, it's not just Detroit. Hard to justify a roster spot for a guy who doesn't bring much of anything else to the table especially when the other teams aren't carrying pure fighters either. They just need some guys that are hungry. I'd settle for a hint of chippiness at this point. I really don't give a s*** about fighting one way or the other, I just want guys who are willing to do whatever it takes to win so much so that they sometimes do something stupid.

I'df****** kill to have Shea Weber on our side smashing some other team's star's head into the glass at the end of a game that's clearly over in your favor. I want a team that gets fined because they want it so bad that they make some stupid mistakes like that. Where's the tenacity on this team? It's absolutely non-existent.

I love that it's Walt from Gran Torino!

Hadn't drawn in a while, so thought I'd give it another go. Not as good as I'd hoped but here's hoping for a bit of Miller Time