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Wing Across The Pond

Member Since 05 Jul 2007
Offline Last Active Oct 09 2014 05:03 AM
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#2318073 Six teams on Nash's trade "list", none Canadian

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 11 July 2012 - 06:41 AM

I can see us trying hard for Nash, but I can't see us giving up Flip, not because he's worth so much to us (which I think he is) but simply because I can't see Holland dumping him in Columbus after all he's given us over the years. If they do use him in a trade it'll be for Ryan so that Flip gets to play with Selanne and we can at least thank him for his service. For some reason I don't see a GM who history has shown respects his players so much, just dump a good promising player who has given his all for a team from the draft onto a bland team where he wont shine or have anything going for him. If Flip goes it'll be to Anaheim


#2316295 The Ever-Increasing Cap, Ridiculous Contracts, and Hitting

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 06 July 2012 - 10:58 AM

Are people here really complaining about player salaries and contract lengths? This is too funny. No Wings fans had issues when the Wings were able to outspend small markets and pick up a Hull and Robitaille in the offseason but when another team is able to sign players the Wings covet the system is broken?

Players are worth what owners will pay them. Period. Grow up.

If the Wings don't want to overpay for a Parise and Suter then they will have cap flexibility moving forward to make a play at a Weber next year or to make a trade for a guy and have the cap room to make it work.


People aren't really complaining about us not securing players like we did pre-cap. Your example isn't applicable since there were no restrictions back when they signed the players you mentioned. What we're discussing here is that increasing caps are forcing teams to overpay, and some don't have the money to do that. If anything, what you argued about the Wings pre-cap proves us right. We spent big because we could, other teams may not have because they couldn't. With an increasing cap teams are feeling like they can spend money that they don't have. Then you wonder why teams like Phoenix are struggling and needing league help financially. Nothing to do with people complaining that we didn't land a certain player.


#2315636 The Ever-Increasing Cap, Ridiculous Contracts, and Hitting

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 05 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

Problem with that though, the players in a sense force the owners hands in giving out those big contracts. Afterall, if Detroit, Nashville, and Pittsburgh all said Suter... Parise... We're giving you 5 mil a year, for 5 years (which probably would have been an ideal deal for them), you'd still have a GM like Minnesotta, who goes... hmm.. I'll overpay. I need to make a splash to boost our teams awareness through the community, and league, and help revenue streams. You're always going to have that happen. There's no doubt in my mind too, that these players, get these offers, and their agent immediately goes to the next owner/gm in line who's interested and leverage one team/deal against the others, continuing to drive up the salary. Every day that went by since July 1, I guarantee the offers for Parise and Suter were increasing in millions daily.

In that CBA, they've got to set max contract lengths, and make the penalties for trading/cutting a player more severe to a teams current salary cap if they cut, or move a guy. I'm sure it works similar to the NFL where that signing bonus that gets pro-rated over the length becomes a penalty if a player is cut, released, or traded that counts against your cap. It's obvious whats going on with these deals, there's no intent probably for Suter, or Parise to play out those 13 year deals. It's that long simply to spread out the signing bonus over a longer period of time to reduce that annual salary. It's got to change IMO.


Indeed. Of course it is. It's a way of circumventing the cap, or in simpler terms, "breaking the rules", at least those set out to govern contracts. Essentially. But because there isn't yet a specific rule about it, it isn't technically against the rules. I know players will claim that they sign these contracts because they truly want to spend the rest of their career at an organisation/love the team/have always had a soft spot for X place since they were a child, but you can simply say "well after your 5 year contract is done (say that's MAX length), just resign. Nothing against that and if you really feel all those things towards this team you can have the opportunity to take a cut and help the team further". Then when they say no we'll all know that they just want the money and the security of not necessarily having to be the best in the league to secure big money contracts. They can take their foot off the gas slightly, in other words.


#2315236 Jonathan Ericsson. Knock, knock...

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 04 July 2012 - 08:21 PM

Jonathan Ericsson. Knock, knock, it's destiny calling.

A quote is a simple thing. It has no physical form but for the movement of lips or the vibration of air, perhaps even the paper or screen on which it is recorded, yet at it's heart it is entirely simple. It is but words strung together. Different words for different means. Poetic words, strong words, abusive words, kind words. Words that question, words that rally, words that challenge or accept. But simple words none the less. There is a famous quote, one that many of you may have seen numerous time before, even in this very place, that consists of words in equation:

'To whom much is given, much is expected'.

A sort of Yin and Yang if you will. Action and reaction. Yet still a quote of simple powerlessness. For a quote can only acquire strength and meaning through situation. A moment in time where mere words define action in such a way as to have been meant. To have been written in the stars.

Some people in this world believe strongly in things that others may cast aside as legend or myth, believe in structure and purpose against chance and coincidence. Fate. I cannot say I am one of these people, yet I do believe in opportunity to design your own fate. To control a personal destiny if you so choose to take your chances. Jonathan Ericsson? His time is now.

I was talking with a friend earlier today about the less than promising situation facing us this year following the departure of Lidstrom and Stuart, and whilst big things were said about the future of Smith and his potential to be a great of the future I couldn't shake the idea within my head that this could be the single greatest opportunity that Ericsson's life will throw his way. Something inside me seems to be wishing him to be the replacement for Lidstrom that we've all been searching for. Wishing for! Yes, I can't deny he's a whipping boy at times, yet I struggle to think of such a time in recent history. Yes, he's made mistakes on the ice, yet again I struggle to think of others who hadn't also. As a player drafted and trained by this single organisation, moulded into the player that they entirely wanted him to be, cannot simply be put down to chance. There must be a reason for his journey through this team. A young Swede who loves the game and has worked hard in the shadow of possibly the greatest defenceman of all time, a countryman and icon whom he wills to be like one day. A player who has grown to be strong defensively, in his own zone, much like the icon he once used to watch. He isn't near that level yet but there are many years left in the tank and he can only move forward.

Whereas some see a hole on the blue line in the vacated space left by Lidstrom, a void that cannot be filled entirely but partially patched over in the hope that nobody will notice, I cannot help but see an opportunity. Following a solid season from Ericsson, earning ice time in a variety of situations designed to test his skill and nerve and desire, his "metal", I do not look at the coincidence of an ever-improving player and a newly-retired legend. Yin and Yang again. Two sides to the same coin. I instead look towards the opportunity. A chance for a young player to provide the situation for which the quote can draw meaning. A young player to whom much has been given and now has the chance to pay back in full. In retirement, as in much of his career, Nick Lidstrom is incomparable, yet if it had to be done with this Red Wings roster I see no better candidate than Ericsson. He's not flashy. He's stable. He's not devastating. He's smart. His offensive game lacks a little something but nothing that cannot be gained with practice. He could have the skill set and the personality to be another truly great defenceman in the mould of the Red Wings system, not simply a spare part brought in with the hope that it fits. After all, these can be notoriously hit and miss (White as a potential Rafalski replacement springs to mind).

Perhaps nothing of this has sunk in with anyone who happens to read it. Perhaps Ericsson will be nothing more than what I have outlined: a solid, sensible, and smart 2nd pairing D-man. Perhaps my tiredness has got the better of me and has rendered me delirious, yet something inside of me cannot shake this feeling that this year, with a little confidence and a bit of belief, Jonathan Ericsson could start to pay back a little of all that has been invested in him. Oh well, at the very least one can hope.


#2315172 Has the Detroit diamond lost it's shine?

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 04 July 2012 - 07:07 PM

Hi, I'm Gabriel, and occasionally I like to come on and dish out some logic in the face of illogical statements.

In reality, my post had little to do with the actual Suter and Parise and more with the concept of them. As a free agent, what would attract people to Detroit? The glamour seems to be gone. However, I should have realized that people are too butt-hurt over those two choosing the Wild to be able to think rationally and have an intellectual discussion about such an abstract concept.

$90M for 12 years and $98M for 13 years are ALMOST AN IDENTICAL CAP HIT. $7.5M/yr. vs. $7.538M/yr. Would you still consider it a handcuff if Suter were a Wing for a mere $38,000/yr less?

Never did I say anything about being a second tier franchise. Just because the competition has increased their level through 'parity' does not mean that the Wings have necessarily lowered theirs. However, if there are multiple teams than can be considered legitimate playoff contenders, simply going to Detroit "for a shot at winning" doesn't have the same draw.

Nice personal attack. When you can't, or won't, discuss an issue, feel free to attack another person's fan-ness. My point in the original post was to see what other fans think Detroit can do to possibly change the perception (if there is one) about committing to the Wings. A city in disarray and a team that continually derided as too old and past their prime.

If I were given the choice between two major cities and nearly identical contracts, I'd look at it in a 'numbers' sense as well..
You'll pay 3% more in personal income taxes in Minnesota (Suddenly, your extra $8Mil is $2.94Mil less).
Also, the cost of living is 28% higher in Minneapolis - http://www.bestplace...&city2=52743000

Given factors like that, the dollars make more sense for Detroit.

I realize that Suter/Parise wanted to play together and that is a mitigating factor that you can't place a value on. I just want to discuss the changing dynamics behind the concept.


Firstly, I'm glad you put 'ALMOST' in there, because they're no where near identical cap hits. 12 years would get both players off the books in the 39th year, 13 years would be 40th. That's an extra year at $7.5 when they'll most likely be crappy shells of their former selves. So whilst similar in yearly numbers, not so in practice. For a GM that's a difference maker.

As for the second point, if Detroit hasn't lowered their standards then there is still the lure of a chance at winning. What you've put out is close to an unfalsifyable statement, in that I can counter it with an equally valid yet opposite statement and neither can be proved right or wrong. If 'parity' means that more teams have a chance of winning, yet Detroit hasn't necessarily lowered their chances, then yes there will be more teams with a good chance of success yet Detroit will still be in the same strong position only with company. That doesn't mean their appeal for players lowers. See my point? I love my iMac, but those nice new Windows laptops have really closed the gap in regards to performance and technology. Still, iMacs haven't got any worse so I'll stick with them. Make sense?

1. I agree with you on this - BUT - he was not prepared to lose Lids.
2. Regarding Schultz - he went to the place where the young players have a chance to develope and play in NHL.

Other than that, I agree with you... and the worst part is that Holland will sign Carle for $25M/5 years and that's even worst than overpaying for Suter...


Unfortunately he went to a place where they only have young players looking to develop. By the time they have done, they'll be priced out of that team and will spend their prime years elsewhere. And who is to say that a whole team of young player will even develop as they should without veteran presence at all levels? I understand his decision, but don't necessarily agree. That being said, also don't mind that he didn't end up here as there is no guarantee he'd have faired well or suffered in the NHL. Could have been a risk.

Regardless of these two guys not coming here, if anyone honestly believes this team is as appealing as it was let's say 5 years ago, you are only fooling yourself. In the last two seasons we have lost two ELITE defensemen and our stars are only getting older. I don't think it's as bad as some people are making it out to be, but we certainly aren't the be all-end all like we once were.


I must be fooling myself then because this team is always appealing to me. But that's only because I support them and will during thick and thin. They may not be as successful in years to come but I'll still love watching them and will still cheer every goal and wish them to do well each and every night. That's what I understand as 'appealing'.

I read a couple of articles today that reference the Wings' inability to land Suter or Parise. I'm beginning to think long gone are the days of the hometown discount and the 'head to Detroit and you've got a shot at a championship' mentality. With the parity that currently exists, any team has a shot at winning.

Yes, there's a tradition of success. Yes, there's 4 Cups in the last 15 years. However, there's just as many first/second round exits and early playoff exits. Other than consistently making the playoffs - what sets Detroit apart as a choice for someone's career? Nothing tangible.

Sure, there are the intangibles - the history, Original Six, 11 Cups, Gordie Howe, etc.. but those have very little to do a person's day-to-day working life or home life.

I was just pondering all this.. what say you?


http://www.freep.com...ise-free-agency


http://www.foxsports...362&feedID=3706


The first point here, you use in reference to the Wings failing to land two players who decided to sign for a team close to their homes. Everyone has a different 'hometown'. Much like we managed to convincce Mike Modano, only the best American-born player in NHL history, to put off retirement for a year and sign for a hometown discount in the state where he was born and raised. Unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances it didn't pan out as it could have but proves the point that everyone has different homes.

The second point is a bit of an odd one, because being one of the winningest teams in NHL history, there are far more teams that have more 'first/second round exits' than the Wings. In fact there are far more teams that don't even make the playoffs year on year... Calgary would wish for a first round exit after these recent years.

Even if the Red Wings had matched Minnesota's offers to both, it probably wouldn't have mattered.


“You read today where they’re happy to be going as a pair and they’re both going home,'' Holland said. “Those are some of the things we couldn’t compete against because we’re not (their) home.''



Reference for the above point about 'hometown discount'.

Dominator2005, youre the only one who realizes that Holland lost a race. If hes willing to offer 180 mil to 2 guys, why not go the extra mile and offer 8 mil a season to land em both. In 7 years, cap will be 80-90 million and the extra mil a season will be so meaningless. We lost 2 great players and our gm stinks. Those are the facts.


Non-bold: Maybe Holland didn't lose a race here. He simply got to a point that was financially viable and make the decision not to go over the top and risk future money. Hence not offering an extra $8m. Deciding to not throw more money and risk losing a contract is a stronger, more ballsy decision than doing it. People might criticise him for doing it but it makes this team stronger going forward than if we had them for that long. If it was 7/8 years then maybe not as much, but 13 is a long time and I think he made a good choice. Also the cap doesn't simply rise a la inflation. It can very well go down. We'd be boned if it did (as MIN will be if it does).
Bold: Those aren't facts at all. They are opinions. Why they are not facts? I think 1 is a great player and 1 is a good defenceman who can give solid play but is in no way elite. Also I think Holland is a damn good GM. See, not facts. Opinions.

It doesnt matter why. Facts are: 1) we dont have either Lidstrom, Shultz, parise or suter, and 2) we have bertuzzi, sammuelson, gustavson, and tootoo. That is crappy general management by definition.


1) Those ARE facts (see above point). As are those at 2) yet everything else is once again opinion. Not sure how it's crappy management either considering Lidstrom made his own decision (Holland didn't tell him to retire), Schultz is unproven, and Parise and Suter either wanted too much money or wanted to play closer to home. If anything I'm thinking that limiting yourself with money and thinking about the sustained future of the organisation rather than the next 10 years is a good thing. If you're going on age here as well, Gustavsson and Tootoo are both 27, same as Parise and Suter (I only say as people seem to think that Tootoo is old for some reason?!) Yes they're not as accomplished as P & S but one's a goaltender and one's a physical forward. Bert and Sammy also have the experience over all 3 of Parise, Suter and Schultz which can count for everything down the line.

People are acting like we lost Dats, Z, Flip, Helm, etc in all this and that we're falling apart. I think we'll be ok, maybe not as dominating as we've been in the past, but come on, we're not the Thrashers here.


#2314524 Ryan Suter agrees to 13-year, $98-mil deal with Wild

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 04 July 2012 - 11:44 AM

Probably because they are stupid, and more willing to put their franchise into cap hell than we are?

Listen, I wanted Suter here, but... he's not elite. The cash he's going to get is far more than he's worth.


Kind of how I feel at the moment. Really wanted him here bad, but might have had to do with the gaping hole on our blue line this year. If he's FA last year then I don't necessarily care about him. Plus I don't trust the hype about a guy who half a year ago was overshadowed by his defensive teammate in Weber. He could by the sort of guy that will lose the hype in a season and then will have 12 years left. I understand Lidstrom was the greatest of this generation but he was always mentioned when discussing great defencemen. Suter seemed to appear when it became clear a lot of teams would be bidding during Free Agency.

That being said, I'm seriously disappointed that we didn't land him, we really needed him but he's in no way the stellar defensive talent that will be a key foundation to build a franchise around. Just he was available without having to give anything up but money. Unfortunately we now need to trade :( Obviously he made a decision based on the rest of his family life... and his secret life with Zach Parise :ninja: :glare: lol kidding


#2312595 Red Wings Sign Jordin Tootoo to 3-yr deal, $1.9M/yr

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 02 July 2012 - 07:10 AM

I don't mind this signing at all. He'll give the 4th line some identity. Hopefully Abdelkader will follow his lead. He's a hard hitter, drops the gloves, and very annoying.

I like it.


This. Man that 4th line was painful to watch last year with Emmerton and Homer on it. Had no identity and looked irrelevant every time it took the ice. This signing changes that.


#2312317 Hey what do you think of 7 Million in two years for X player

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 01 July 2012 - 07:15 PM

I understand that this is a polarising signing, but seriously, what are you going to do? Stop supporting the Wings? What if they prove to be steller signings and help win us the cup this year? Don't necessarily think that disliking someone for their past actions should preclude them from doing well in the future and turning a new leaf. Avery wasn't a d*** when he came here, why would you think Tootoo would be?

There's still a lot of time to sign free agents and we have a lot of pieces to trade if needs be so we're in a pretty strong position on all fronts - have cap space to sign FAs, have pieces to trade, have depth so that trades don't criple us.

I'm still going to support the Wings no matter what and support the players who put on that jersey every night and go out there and give their all to win. If someone does something reprehensible I'll ***** about them letting us down, but if they play good clean hockey and have a real desire to win then I'll love them. Don't knock someone for their past indiscretions, everyone has them and no one wants to be defined by them.


#2311832 Tsn coverage

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 01 July 2012 - 01:52 PM

Pierre has it on good authority that the Pens are front runners to sign every free agent available: Suter, Parise, Garrison all want to be in PIT SOOOO BAD. Pierre says so.......



....fool :glare:


#2304762 LGW Contest!

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 02 June 2012 - 06:59 AM

I shall say (Holmstrom - Howard) + Smith = 63

Sounded much bettter than saying Joakim Andersson


#2304761 Red Wings make contract offer to D Justin Schultz

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 02 June 2012 - 06:53 AM

Agreed. These premadonnas are a diamond dozen. It's a doggy dog world out there so these kids shouldn't be taking stuff like this for granite.

I nearly threw my chair across the room and prepared to punch you from over 3000 miles away as the crow flies... but the granite settled me down :) I was born in the 1990 so I don't remember those pre-Madonna days but I'm sure they were better for the overall standard of music


#2302853 Congratulations to the LA Kings

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 23 May 2012 - 03:46 PM

They beat the #1, #2, & #3 in the west. That's a pretty awesome accomplishment. Good luck to them in the finals.

If the Rangers get there as well... they could win a perfect cup (sort of). #1, #2, #3, and #1... technically speaking the 4 toughest teams you could draw.


#2295023 Here's an off-season plan

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 21 April 2012 - 06:48 AM

You lost me at 'trade Ericsson'. I think he's been big towards the end of this season and our PK suffered with his injury. He's the best defensive dman we've got.

Not to mention Lids will/should get $2mill. I sincerely hope he can do that for this team. After getting $7-$8mill a year for probably 10+ of the 20 years he's been here, I'm sure he's got enough to last him. After all it's not like he's not going to get another job somewhere, i.e. here as a coach or scout. It'll be sweet if he takes sort of 1.5-2mill.

Plus I want Iginla with the temptation of a playoff appearance/challenge. Man that would be sweet. But I'm biased and just love the guy. Always plays with heart and passion and can still score. If Calgary decided to rebuild (which he's on record as saying he's not in favour of) throw him $3-4mill I'd say


#2292856 600 Posts for a Game 5 Victory

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 19 April 2012 - 04:44 PM

Ironically, if everyone posted something when they viewed, this thread would have well over 1000 posts by now <_<

Lets Go Wings!


#2292341 Will Detroit win this series?

Posted by Wing Across The Pond on 18 April 2012 - 05:05 PM

Tell me how you call yourself a fan. Do you have any optimism at the beginning of the season? Are you only happy if your team is loaded with superstars?

You called this team a failure when they lost in Game 7 in 2009 because that was the one time you got to see them live. Well boo hoo how about all the real fans that would love to take a trip to the Joe to see their team? You say you won't go to the Joe unless they have a legit chance at winning the Cup. I live in St Louis and I would pay a lot of money to just go see a regular season game in Detroit. You aren't a fan, you just want to be associated with a winner so you get upset when the team doesn't go 82-0 and sweep the playoffs

+1'd your ass, because this is exactly how I feel. Poor you Lenny for getting to go to Game 7 of a Stanley Cup Final at the Joe. Going to the Joe for me, would cost upwards of about $1000, you know, considering a plane ticket across the Atlantic, hotel costs, then not to mention a game ticket?! I mean you go and actually watch the team so you must like or support them in some way? Why not show it? Have some faith for goodness sake that they can at least take the next game, and then really it's who can keep their head. It's 3 seperate 1-game series for Detroit. I'm not saying that they can continue coasting and not hustling as they have been at times because they really need to start shooting from good areas, main thing. All I'm getting at is that for us, it's do or die, and I'll ALWAYS pick them to do. Otherwise what's the point in caring?