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Member Since 06 Jul 2007
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#2319051 How bad are we if our roster is now finalized?

Posted by BUHdactyl on 13 July 2012 - 08:50 PM

Alright, so I've been thinking about this, because much like the majority of fans on here I've been anxiously awaiting some exciting news. If you take a step back and look at what we've already got to work with, it's really not as bad as some are making it out to be. Perhaps after a few boring off-seasons we were all just itching for some big splash - something exciting, not necessarily because we needed it, but because we'd kinda earned it.

There's no denying the fact that we are weaker on D than we were last year. Suter or no Suter, this was inevitable - Lidstrom alone makes this so. Stuart, as much as some liked to bash him, was great and will be missed. This only adds another large hole in our defense. We could use one more depth defenseman especially given the departure of both Exelby and Janik. Now that they are gone, if there is an injury, which there almost always is, we really have nobody to call up. As sickening as it is to even say it - someone as crappy as Lebda would suffice as his only purpose would be 'bandage.' Luckily we still have a few viable options via free agency, not to mention the fact that we have WAY too many forwards and will likely trade a few for something. If that something isn't picks, it should be a depth defenceman.

I see a lot of complaining regarding Quincey and Smith. Yes, Q was not what we'd expected after the trade deadline, but keep in mind he was really good in Colorado and we were all a bit sour over losing him. He is better than he showed, and perhaps it was merely the adjustment from one team to another. I would expect an impressive effort from him this season and I feel that our first round pick was most certainly not wasted. Smith - what can be said about the kid? He is our best prospect, and our prospect pool is pretty damn decent. Rated as high as 4th was it? If teams like Philly can just throw their underripe prospects into the roster and see results, I would expect good things. I already liked what I saw last year and I, like many, didn't want to see him sent back down. Did these two fill the gaps left by both Lidstrom and Stuart? Of course not. Will they keep our team competitive? Bet your ass they will.

As far as forwards go... well, we may not have acquired any flashy free agents, but our team has improved. We lost Hudler - Jiri Hudler. With the exception of Eva and maybe two other people, he will not be missed very much. He wasn't as bad as we made him out to be, but there's the whole KHL thing, and oh yeah he's the smallest guy on the team. Sammy will not only replace the offence Hudler took with him, but will bring size and grit. Judging by about half of the rosters I see from various posters, it seems most of us have forgotten about the acquisition of Damien Brunner. He was the winger version of Schultz, and nobody really gave two craps when we learned of his interest in Detroit. He is a gamble, but then again so is Alex Semin. He could very well out score Hudler, and although unlikely, score more goals than Parise, who was signed for like 6 million more than Brunner. We don't know how well his game will translate into the NHL, but the potential is there, and that, to me, is as exciting a signing as any. We also have Jordin Tootoo. Tootoo may have inadvertently caused the death of miscellaneous computer hardware by signing here, but he will also cause death to those who f*** with our young guys, which is my next point.

We need to give our young prospects a shot in the NHL. There's a reason why most of you wouldn't want Nyquist included in a trade; He is the real deal. I don't understand how we can discourage trading them for proven players such as Nash or Ryan, yet be perfectly content with letting them rot in the AHL while we sign DOAN or whoever else. Doan is great, but he is old and he is not ours. For every Mueller, Prust or Doan we sign, a prospect loses his wings. For another season at least... Babcock guaranteed Brunner a spot. Tootoo is not sitting out at that salary, and neither will Samuelsson. We already have too many forwards, so as far as Doan and Semin go, we really don't need them. Nyquist is ready for the NHL and he will only become as great as he has been projected to be if we give him the chance.

Our team may not be stacked, but it will make the playoffs. We lost out on the Thunder Buddy sweepstakes, but we landed Brunner. This will be an exciting season and it could be full of pleasant surprises which will benefit our team in the long run. All we need is more depth on the back end and Holland will address this. The sky is not falling.

#2319053 Dominik Hasek's agent: "He will play, and he will excel"

Posted by ogreslayer on 13 July 2012 - 09:07 PM

Scott Howson needs a goalie + Scott Howson is stupid as hell = The Dominator has a new job. It's simple math really.

Garth Snow's going to beat him to it & sign him to a 15 year deal. How often do the Islanders get a chance at a guy with Dom's credentials after all.

#2318967 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by Wingzman91 on 13 July 2012 - 01:58 PM

I also want to take this time to blame every other GM beside Lombardi for not winning the cup.
You all know what you didn't do to make your teams better, how dare you all.

Holland is an easy target for everyone who thinks the glass is half empty, no amount of trades and free agents will guarantee your team a cup and to blame the GM for a perceived lack of moves is ignorant.

" Damn you Kenny! Why didn't you go back in time and move the Suters and Parises to Detroit before they where born! "

There is absolutely nothing better any of you could have done. Period.

#2318955 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by Carman on 13 July 2012 - 01:39 PM

Thru trades and free agency, duh? And I've already answered why I'm not going to be baited into playing the specifics game in the "How Bad are we..." thread. Go find your answer there.


I'm not trying to bait you into anything, I'm just trying to understand your position. How can you say Holland should have done "something", when you can't name that "something"?

I'd get not liking some of Holland's moves like trading to get Quincy, or if you wanted Holland to be more in on the Burns trade. I wouldn't necessarily agree with you, but at least I'd know where you are coming from and we can compare predictions and thoughts on the future of the Red Wings given the move would have wanted him to make. Right now you're argument is you don't like Holland because he didn't do something you can't even come up with?

Obviously nobody can replace Lidstrom, but there have been plenty of guys over the last couple of years who are legit top four defenders, and if you want a top four defenseman (or top six winger) and you aren't currently developing any in your farm, then you're going to have to overpay in free agency (or else watch them go somewhere else). (2012) Carle, Wideman, Allen (2011) Wisniewski, Pitkanen, Erhoff, Jovanovski, Kaberle (2010) Paul Martin, Dan Hamhuis are all guys who were available and could have been signed. I know some of them got s***ty contracts and all that, and maybe that would have been the case no matter what, but you never know who'd be willing to take less to avoid places like Florida, Buffalo, or Columbus. That's the kicker though, it has to be a LITTLE bit less (in term or salary), you can't expect free agents to turn down millions of dollars in difference just because this is Detroit. Every team has potential anymore.

I honestly believe the reason one of the above mentioned wasn't signed is because nobody expected to lose Lidstrom and Stuart in the same year.

I don't think Kenny is a f*** up, but let's not pretend like there were simply no conceivable options for the last couple of years.

Out of those names you listed I honestly think the Red Wings are better off without overpaying for them. I really prefer the situation we have now without one of those defenseman, than if we had one. Ian White is better than any of those names, and he's signed for 2.8 million. Deals are out there. If the Red Wings miss the playoffs due to not spending, I'd understand the dismay, but until then I don't understand the disappointment, because I just don't see how those players make the Red Wings better.

#2318948 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by Carman on 13 July 2012 - 01:09 PM

I would've addressed the team's needs that have been clear for a couple years now, a top 6 forward and someone to eventually replace Lids.

How? What? Which move could he have realistically done?

I don't know of a dman that has been moved that could replace lids, can I get a name?

#2318867 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by SouthernHockeyHoney on 13 July 2012 - 07:38 AM

I feel like a lot of people are underestimating the impact Smith will have. The kid is a pure stud and will prove why he's one of the most talked about rookies in Detroit's system. I have a feeling Smith will make Holland look like a genius for not blowing up the team for a 1 year run.


Wasn't it Babcock that made the comment "Smith is the type of player you build a team around"?

I agree whole-heartedly with this. The logic that we have to address any holes with RFA's or trades is silly. Why do we even have a farm system? Why spend the time and money to scout, recruit, and develop prospects if management is going to fill every available roster spot from outside the organization? Was it right to attempt to land Suter? Yes. Was it right to NOT overspend? Absolutely.

I'm looking forward to seeing Smith and some of the others play this season.No one can say with any certainty what is going to happen with the Wings or any other team out there. Suter or Parise could suffer a season-ending injury in the pre-season (a la Mursak). Smith and some of the other young ones could exceed expectations, and their exuberance could be infectious with the veterans. Could the converse scenario also be true? Of course. Let them play and see what happens.

Kind of ridiculous to doom a team before even a second of hockey is played.

#2318742 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by 55fan on 12 July 2012 - 06:17 PM

I'm content with this group. They are a mediocre bunch who could maybe surprise some people. They're not the Leafs or the Oilers.

I'm also content with the sofa that I got in 1976. It's ugly earth-tone paisley and my dad had to beef it up with plywood in spots, but it'll do until I get something better.

Pretty much like the Wings. What we have is good. That doesn't mean we aren't shopping around to get better. It just means that we're not going to throw out the babies with the bathwater and blow up the team en route to getting better players.

Trades? FA signings? Sure, if they improve the team at a reasonable price.

One can be content and still looking to improve. It just means that what one has is servicable.

Now if Holland had said, "I'm tickled pink with this team!" then I would worry.

#2318662 How bad are we if our roster is now finalized?

Posted by Konnan511 on 12 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

All I hear is wah wah wah. I'll be smiling in May when we are in the playoffs yet again.

#2318727 Who is worse A. Semin or A. Kostitsin

Posted by ogreslayer on 12 July 2012 - 05:25 PM

Which one supposedly has ties to the Russian mob? Whichever one it is, the other guy is worse.

#2318692 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by Guest on 12 July 2012 - 03:11 PM

Holland was relatively inactive last offseason, citing the lack of quality free agents and the high prices of those who were available, and was holding off on spending big until this summer, when the UFA class was much better. Well, look what happened... most of the top pending UFAs re-signed during the season. We were left with two big players, both of whom Holland just missed out on getting. Now he's likely saving for next off-season, but who knows what players will actually be available?

Welcome to the wonderful cap-era Hockey League. Guess there are 29 other teams looking to improve instead of a handful like the past. Overpaying for average players isn't the solution long term, or short term, for that matter.

Drafting and development is more important than ever. Holland recognizes this which is why he is so tight on not trading prospects. I'm sure if Holland wanted to run things the "Chicago way", he could go all-in for a 1-year window then be bottom dwellers for the next 5. What's the point? Atleast if you have a team that makes the playoffs, you have a chance to win it all. Not making the playoffs means you aren't winning anything but better picks.

Bottom line, despite all this "arm-chair GMing" we got going on here, managing a competitive team year in, year out is a balancing act. Some years will be better than others. That's the way it goes.

Lets take a look at all these "good teams" on paper:

Penguins - What have they won since 2009?
Rangers - What have they won since landing big name FA Richards?
Flyers - What have they won since post-salary-cap?
Chicago - What have they won since their infamous fire sale 2010?
Vancouver - What have they won since shaking the name "playoff chokers"? (did they even shake that name?)
San Jose - One of the top teams on paper last year, how did that work out for them?

What other top teams are there besides Detroit? Detroit has succeeded as much as the almighty Penguins since 2009 who tanked for a decade to win now, are more stable than the Blackhawks, and won a cup and went to the finals; more than Canucks can boast about...

Funny thing is, Red Wings, despite not drafting top-10 for 20 years, are still in the mix of things. And LA and Boston have proven you don't need an Elite team, but a healthy, and hard working team with a hot goaltender. Babcock is known to get the most out of his guys, and Howard has proven he can get hot.

Remember 2002 when you could spend 100-million and beat teams that spent 20-million? those days are gone...

Holland is building the best possible team he can without 'overspending'. He's keeping money available for when that opportunity presents itself. He's not giving future Red Wings UFA ammunition to say "hey, you gave Semin $8 million and he only scored 40 points and was a -34, I want to get paid, too!"...

This isn't NHL13, people!

#2318698 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by Guest on 12 July 2012 - 03:35 PM

I'm disappointed with what's gone on this offseason and the lack of replacements for Lids and Stu, but I'm embarrassed as a Wings fan for these Holland bashers who want the Wings to be like the Rangers, giving fans instant gratification of russian roulette major signings, releases, and roster implosions and explosions obviously without any results. So many spoiled fans. I think I'll be patient and see what unfolds. The Red Wings are hardly a disappointment franchise so.. far from reason to be up in arms.

#2318543 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by Carman on 12 July 2012 - 09:49 AM

My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.

Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

#2318529 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by SwedeLundin77 on 12 July 2012 - 09:33 AM

"One day, we might be able to bring a player of significance here."

Erm...we have 16 million in cap space. We're a legendary team. We should be able to bring a player of significance here this summer, not in the distant future.

I really wish he wouldn't say he's content with our roster up front. Yeah, it's servicable, no worse than last year, but last year wasn't good enough. I guess I can see him waiting to see if Brunner will make an impact, but that's risky.

But he seems to forget that Quincey did play last year. So we've only added Smith, a rookie, to replace Stuart and Lidstrom.

Who is your player of significance? Semin and Doan are the only two big names left and it seems like Detroit is not the only team wary of Semin's questionable work ethic and moodiness, otherwise he would have been signed by now by someone. We are looking at Doan and his agent has said that he would be interested if the Phoenix situation is unresolved come July 16...

What is he supposed to say? "We don't like our roster up-front." No, you don't say that as a GM. He added some pieces, replaced Hudler, and gave us some bottom 6 depth. We have too many forwards so there may be a trade upcoming for defense, but we'll see. He's not done yet and there is a long way to go before the season starts.

#2318533 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by wingslogo19 on 12 July 2012 - 09:38 AM

Holland can't replace Lidstrom that was never going to happen. Missing out on Sutter and parise because they wanted to be close to there family, well you can't blame Holland on that one. Holland tried to get both of them here and missed out nothing you can do.

#2318525 Holland Content with Current Roster

Posted by jroc86 on 12 July 2012 - 09:28 AM

Lets give it a rest with the Holland bashing ... he went all in on Parise and Suter. Parise got 3 more points than Filp last year and and now a cap hit of 7.5 mill for the rest of his career. And Ryan Suter despite being a very good player is a somewhat unproven commodity without the leagues biggest/best dman beside him.

Trades dont happen overnight. Theres a plan in place and this "rebuild on the fly" might not come full circle until next off season. Do you think other GMs really want to help out the NHL Gold-standard Red Wings that much to keep our winning tradition alive? Hell no.