210th Pick

That goal was great, but I think the most important goal in modern Wings history was Stevie Y's goal against the Blues. When he scored that goal, it shattered all doubt that that playoff run would end in failure. Like Lidstrom's half-ice 2002 goal against the Nucks was the turning point in those year's playoffs, Stevie Y's goal was the turning point in the Wing's playoff determination and results, period. D Mac's goal to all-but put it away was just absolutely perfect frosting on the cake of inevitability. Edit: Oh, and nice try editing the original post, spongewing. It's best to try that before anyone cements the posts original text in a quote. I honestly thought you were joking about not remembering it.

I'm pretty sure what he was getting at there was that, unless someone could prove him potentially wrong, no one seems interested in him, and that his demands are causing him to not even be taken seriously by GMs. Best defensmen on the market or not, if he had a chance at 4 mil it was during the flurry of signings. There was an overly emotional charge to the flurry, and the fallout afterwards has been much more cool and calculating. 4 mil will be pretty tough.

My guess is that Avery has a sour taste in his mouth over Detroit. He got a lot more publicity as soon as he got shipped out. He wasn't taken too seriously here. For example, I remember when he wanted to be nick-named "Pitbull", everyone thought it was stupid, and called him "Puppy" instead. I recall him being rather unamused. No one really underestimated his pitbull-ish style when he arrived in LA. This was back when we had Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille, Shanny, and a bunch of other grizzled vets who wouldn't care about having much tact while putting him in his place. Who knows, he could fit in better now. Whether he would or not, I doubt he'd want to come back to the organization.

Staying up late to watch Stevie Y's 2OT goal. Until then, the Wings were just another sports team I supported due to proximity. That moment cemented Red Wings Hockey as the sport and team I became most passionate about. The memory of the puck sailing past Casey replays itself in my head more vividly than any other hockey memory.

Just to clear that part up, he was preaching to the converted with those clarifications, here is the spine of the problem: We were arguing different things, the problem is, part of my complaint is that he was adding the "last year" part to WhiteLightning91's question to bolster his opinion. Tacking "last year" onto that original question, and shifting it to the past tense changes the question in a big way. I actually was enjoying the initial exchange with Harold, but should have been as clear as I just have been about not liking how I felt he was tailoring the argument to his opinion. Unfortunately my lack of clarity caused more problems than did his tailoring of the argument, so perhaps I do deserve more than equal share of the blame.

Yeah, I'm not anybody you know. There are things I disagree with Harold about that cannot be written off so easily as misunderstandings: points per minute played being valid as a stat, potential meaning "jack", and what it is we are actually arguing. In retrospect it's too bad we didn't agree to disagree on those things a bit earlier. It's pretty sad when people argue about what they are arguing, and I'll admit an equal share in that.

I'm with you there. I agree we've never quite replaced Mac, my thought was if we would have brought him back instead of replacign him with Drake. I don't think either will provide the grit DMac had before, but if both could stay healthy, Drake will be grittier without spending 5 minute durations in the box.

Best decision you've made all day. Your post is too logically problematic to even start on. ... Anyhow, since Drake vs. Lang led to Lang vs. Filpula... A flipside question for this thread might be whether bringing back Drake is better than if we could have brought back McCarty instead. My beating hockey heart says McCarty, but the smarter side of me says McCarty is (unfortunately) a sinking ship, and Drake is the more solid move.

While I wouldn't mind seeing him implant himself as a tumor on another team, if Russia keeps him out of a Wings Jersey, I'm happy.

Haha, What? In the middle of your continuing tirade, did you just call me a dumbass for continuing to argue... and then use the pot and kettle analogy?! Wow. Let's simplify. Drake vs Lang doesn't work per apples and oranges, so Lang vs Flip was introduced. Specifically the question of who's better. You affirmatively stated Lang was better, backing your claim with last season's point totals, but have since (unless I'm wrong) stated that Filpula is the better player for the present and future of the wings. When criticized, you say that you were merely saying Lang WAS better LAST YEAR. The problem is, I don't think that's what anyone is discussing, we're mainly interested in whether the moves the team is making (and not making) this off season are helping the team, and whether Filpula can replace Lang. I'd honestly not enjoy arguing with you so much, but with your use of vulgarity and logical fallacy, I catch that 'internet tough guy' vibe that kind of eggs me on. For that I apologize.

That's great that you feel that way. And I'm sorry I introduced anything further than what fits in your rigid guidlines for what one must consider while evaluating a players quality. I'm pretty sure you were the only person who only considered only last season's point totals when responding, but next time, when someone arbitrarily assigns argumentative stipulations, I'll do better to follow them. One question though; if you agree with me that Flip is the better player for our team right now, why are you even arguing? Just acknowledge and continue, it's not that hard, and doesn't even require argumentative concession (it seems like you're kinda worried about that).

If your going to get into extrapolation/consideration of outside variables, you're faced with the same problems with your own arguments, which propose valuation of a players quality soley on the points they put up. There are a ton of factors that effect that aside from that players own skill (coach's preference, talent of linemates, etc.). Points per minute played is merely one step further down the purely statistical scale, and has arguably the same amount of outside variables as your own argument. I guess what I'm saying is that if you're going to argue my logic that way, you're going to get into one cluster-f of a confusing argument. Perhaps what I should have made more clear is that when someone asks which player is better, I immediately start considering which player I'd want on my team right now, if I were the GM. I'd obviously take Flip over Lang in a heartbeat. Performance last season is a factor, but I don't think many people will agree it should be the be-all-end-all of the 'who's better' argument.. In not exactly so many words, someone has said it... at least once... by me... last page... But to your credit, it is the right point. Drake will hopefully provide grit, like McCarty did, and like we need as a finishing piece to the long-incomplete grind line. Lang was not that kind of dude, and I hope our youth replace him before they hire a pseudo-Lang to waste more time and space.

I think points per minute is a good way of portraying how players took advantage of the time they were given when comparing two players that played a very different amount of minutes. Oh, and Hudler wouldn't be as great as you think. Some quick homework puts him at .033. Dats = .052, and Zets = .055! Hudler doesn't even beat Lang. I definitely wouldn't say "potential means jack". There are a lot of players in the league whose salaries are based in large part on their potential. That's exactly what this team needs to stop doing. I'm sick of watching old vets choke. This team has some kickass scouting, and I feel twilight players rob the youth of quality growth play. The play of Filpula and Hudler was exciting to watch. At times it was like watching star quality develop right in front of you. I really enjoyed that. Lang... not so much. In fact, I found him hard to watch a lot of the time, and I feel he was lucky to put up the stats he did. Look at our division this coming year. Unless someone improves a ton, the Preds took a big step back, and no one else took a big step forward. We've got breathing room. Why not use it, and make timely decisions based on what we really need, and who we should acquire for an optimal fit. Right now, I don't think our needs are as concrete as they will be half way through the season, and for the needs we THINK we have (second line vet), I don't think we have an optimal fit.

Well, if you really want to be accurate, you can't just throw the stats out like that. A truly accurate stat would be points per minute played, and that has Lang leading Filpula .038 to .021. But then you factor in the fact that Lang was paid over 4 times more than Filpula. And the fact that he's slowling down with age, and Filpula is only getting better. You know what? No, Lang is not better; likely not as a player, and definitely not as a business decision. Filpula is a better bet not only for overall quality next season, but a more valuable player for the future. Drake didn't replace Lang. Drake most likely joins Drapes and Malts on the grind line. We'll count on a player like Filpula to blossom and replace Langs production. And it's not even a question of it being a gamble (will he or won't he replace Lang's production). If you waste money on giving a guy like Lang valuable minutes, you stunt the growth of a guy like Filpula by robbing him of those minutes. I really think this will be a great season for Kenny to leave a little cap space free, set up a Filpula, Hudler, Grigorenko second line, and play a little sink or swim for the first quarter of the season. Kopecky can threaten their roster spot, and If someone really sinks, Kenny's got plenty of money to get a player BETTER than Lang to solidify the line. We'll have a great third line with Sammy, Cleary, and Franzen, and a decent grind line.