Babcock is ONE OF the best coaches. I agree. We just happen to disagree on him being THE BEST coach, which is what you said initially. And it's not like he came on to a bad team either. Any argument made in his favor is equally valid for Sutter or Quenneville who, nevertheless, have more Cups.
It's obviously opinion at this point but there's no way I'd want Quenneville over Babcock. Sutter maybe. I think Sutter outcoached and exposed the Hawks this playoffs, and Babcock almost did it the previous year with a helluva lot less talent.
Here's part of the reason I think Babs is a great coach.
"The way I look at it here, if you don't want to be coached, don't come here," Bacock said via Detroit Sports 105.1. "If you want to be pushed to be the best that you can be, that's what we do here. You know what? The proof is in the pudding.
"If [the Wings] are concerned about [free agents not liking me], then I should coach somewhere else."
Am I warm and cuddly every day? I am with my family. I think I care a lot about my players. When you care about people, you make them do it right. When you don't, and there's lots of coaches that don't, then their teams don't do it right and they don't have success. We just have the hard meetings. We get it out front. Does it piss people off once in a while? Absolutely. But it also leads to behavioral changes and getting things better. So you know what, I'm not apologizing for that stuff at all.
"I think we need to let our young people grow. We signed enough players to buy our kids time in the minors. We have four d-men who are going to play here eventually and probably be upgrades on our roster. How much time do they need? We don’t know the answer. [ . . . . ] I didn’t like us in the playoffs last year against Boston, but we like what we have coming. And we like our kids. So the biggest thing is not to rush it. We could really use some puck-moving D. Well, we just happen to have some puck-moving D in the minors. Big guys that can skate. When are they ready? We’re sure not going to rush them, but if they’re capable of taking jobs they’re getting the jobs." - Babcock, from the interview
Let's be honest - the Wings aren't in really bad shape. We've spent the past few seasons "retooling" in the sense that we've kept our core intact and kept the streak alive while also building up a very impressive stable of very promising young players like Nyquist and DeKeyser and Mantha and Mrazek and Sproul and Ouellet and Jurco and Athanasiou. The "youth movement" we've been waiting for is already happening; it's a slow drip rather than one great big swell. We're not rebuilding, not looking to tear everything down and ice a roster with 20 kids. We want what every Cup contender boasts these days: quality veteran leadership (with at least two elite franchise players at the top of the totem pole) and a small army of young studs on early, affordable contracts. And we're in a position to have that very soon.
I hate the Quincey and Cleary re-signings. I hated that we brought back Samuelsson. I hated that Nyquist was stuck in Grand Rapids at the start of last season and that Jurco's going to get the same treatment this coming season. But, all things considered, this stuff isn't a big deal. What's important is that we're steadily building up to that kind of roster that can truly compete for the Cup. Again, I think that roster is within reach, we just have to be patient and not do anything really, genuinely, hugely, dangerously stupid. For example, as much as I want a Mike Green on this team, I do feel that moving, say, Nyquist for him would be really, genuinely, hugely, dangerously stupid, or at least close to it. Even if he were to have a great season, do you suppose he re-ups with us? I wouldn't be surprised if he were to re-sign with the Caps, giving them both Nyquist and Green.
But I digress. Point is, it's going to be ok, maybe. I'm generally extremely cynical about the state of the Wings, but if I'm being objective, I like us, and I think we're only going to get better over the next two or three years. Mantha will save us all.
How about this play. Visiting a children's hospital that included my niece being treated for cancer. Yea, too many big talking men with mighty keyboards and made up names can go on and on and pass their judgement on a guy for getting a job, but what the f*** have any of you loud mouth critics done for a sick kid that isn't even related to you? Oh wait, I think I know the answer to that one. Nothing!
How about logging off and doing something useful with your life. Sounds like work, so I'm guessing many will pass.
Neither of Callahan or Ferraro looked ready. Ferraro was considered close to a bust already and got a last ditch shot, I think. Callahan still has a ways to go to be NHL-ready.
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That will probably win, but I like to forget anything that happened in those playoffs.
Cleary was awful in the 2008 playoffs, but the Wings won the Cup. In 2009, he was brilliant and scored a lot, but the Wings lost and he missed that crucial breakaway at the end of game 6 against the Pens.
2007 is a better memory, because the team vindicated itself after choking in the playoffs in 2003, 2004 and 2006. Losing to Anaheim on a deflection sucked, and I still feel we'd have won the Cup if not for that play, but overall, that playoff feels better. Also likely because we won the Cup the following year. 2009 still stings because the Wings haven't won anything since then.
Yea, but no one says what they'd do as GM. I bet if the average Red Wing fan became GM, he/she would make horrible trades and sign over priced UFA's. We'd be like the Leafs and our team would be build around guys like Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Clarkson, van Reimsdyk and Bozak for the next 4 years plus. No thanks, I'll take Kenny, who's building the team with the draft, isn't signing any over priced UFA's, and actually knows how the cap works.
I understand signing Quincey and Cleary isn't "sexy", but they're only 1 and 2 year deals. That Niskanen deal is insane! Smith and Dekeyser are going to be better then him. Unless a team has drafted the player, I don't think any UFA should be signed for over 4 years. Do an online search and see how many horrible long term UFA signings there's been since 2005-06. The Wings don't have any bad ones over 3 years. The only potential bad one could be Weiss, but he's got a few years to still make the deal a good one.
I think the helmet one is dumb. If you're in your own end on a pk defending and someone checks you, knocks the helmet off, somehow you deserve a penalty because you don't want to leave your team even more shorthanded to go put the helmet back on or go back to the bench?
"Of course I can explain what's wrong with this, I just don't want to! I'll just say it's made up cuz i'm a mod" Well done harold, well done.
It came off as maybe more blunt than intended because I didn't elaborate, but my point stands that you are making all this conjecture about things we have no real idea about.
Sure it's speculation. But it isn't baseless. It's called extrapolation and its amazing the amount of info you can get by it. You should try it sometime!
Answer me this: Do you really think he turned down a 3 year deal from Detroit because his heart was in Detroit? Does that make sense to you?
- doesn't make sense to me
I have no idea and neither do you. He may not have realized how much he liked playing on the Wings until he was confronted with the reality of playing on another team. Who knows.
Did he turn down multi-year offers from multiple teams (or even 1 team) to come back? Or was it a tryout with one team with no guarantees?
-Indications are it was the latter (I'll admit I'm not positive as its been claimed both ways, still alot of confusion about this)
Holland has said (who you're using as a source so let's say he's reliable) that Cleary had multiple offers from other teams.
“He had three-year offers from some teams last year,” Holland said. “We said at the time we would talk at the end of the season.”
Do you think this handshake deal has nothing to do with this signing?
-Quotes from Holland strongly indicate it does
I never said it doesn't. As you point out, Holland said it does.
Do you really think his agent was just going to forget about said deal?
-Wouldn't be much of an agent if he did. Of course he's going to reach out to the GM about it.
Probably. who knows. But you're stating it as fact and it's speculation on your part.
And please tell me what kind of positive leadership the guy is bringing to the table and (if there is any) how that outweighs his on ice performances.
-If they need his locker room presence so bad then they could pay him to sit in the locker room. Pay him a million buck for a few years to be 'President of Team Morale'. No need to sign him to a playing contract.
I don't need to tell you any of that. If you read any of my posts in this thread, I'm not in favor of bringing Cleary back.
I just pointed out that you're hating him for invented reasons. That he only came back because no one else wanted him. That he thinks he deserves special treatment. That his agent keeps bringing up this handshake deal.
Nothing you've quoted confirms any of that. It's all just your speculation, which you admit. Which means it is not factual, it is made up based on your opinion.