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Member Since 03 Oct 2007
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 11:51 AM

#2531868 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by marcaractac on 12 July 2014 - 06:28 PM

It would be very unwise to trade Jurco. He's the only top six potential guy with size. I'm sure holland wouldn't trade him for that reason


Totally agree. Too much potential to trade him. I really do think the most tradable asset we have is Tatar, as far as players go for teams wanting a player that can be put in their lineup right away. I'd love to see Tatar remain a Wing no doubt, but in the end the team does need to get bigger, and if Tatar can be packaged for a legit top 4 righty, I think it would be foolish to not do so. Of course this is assuming the right deal is made. 

#2531446 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 11 July 2014 - 01:03 AM


I actually think he went a little easy on him.


I mean, seriously, outside of drafting, over the last five years, Ken Holland's management system or style or whatever it may be is a complete mess and an utter failure. He's completely failed to adapt to the cap era since the cap actually started weighing down on the team. He got lucky early on with superstars playing for RFA money and the salary rollback, but since 2009 when he's had to actually deal with legitimate cap issues, he's done nothing but flounder. At this point, when you look at the last five off-seasons, you've got a steady stream of disasters.


Everyone in the media seems hesitant to want to be too hard on the guy based on his reputation, but it's getting too hard to ignore that he seems completely lost as a GM of this team in the cap era. Even if you give him more credit than he could possibly deserve for drafting well, there's far too many other failures and terrible moves to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. That he ends up looking more lost and ineffective as more major people from his management team leave is also quite telling. I'm not saying that the other management team members were the true geniuses necessarily, but clearly Holland has been less effective since losing them as resources; first with Scotty, then with Yzerman, and then Nill.


However much credit you want to give to anyone though for the past, the fact remains that we have five straight years of Holland failing to help this team slow the decline, let alone actually improve, in any way other than drafting. But he's made so many bad moves outside of drafting that it's begun to nullify the benefits afforded to a team that drafts well, because he fails to build teams that have room for young guys to come up when they're ready.


It's just all so absurd at this point, and it's all been said too many times.


The bottom line is that if there was any doubt beforehand, I think today it's become abundantly clear, enough is enough. It's time for a new GM.


Just curious as to what you'd do different? Throw huge money at UFA's and handicap the team cap-wise? Trade away all our best players to get a few years of lottery picks, and hope we luck out and get future superstars? Trade all our prospects for impact players so we can be a great team for 4-5 years then just have to go through all of this all over again? The team spent the last few years stocking up on young talent. We are now beginning to see the benefit from that. 


Sure there were some frustrating signings along the way like Sammy, and this one here today. I'm not saying Holland has been perfect. No GM in this league is. But management as a whole has done a nice job of building lots of depth in the prospect pool that will give this team a chance to stay competitive for years to come. These kids won't become big time players overnight. It takes time. 


I'm not here singing Holland's praises. I'm just saying that based on his overall performance as a whole, people are blowing it all way out of proportion. I get that we all have our own opinions. The Cleary signing gives many people another reason to let loose on him. But when you take a deep breath, step back and look at the franchise as a whole, it's going in a pretty good direction. Hardly a nose dive some make it out to be. One year of Cleary doesn't suddenly derail that. 


Sincerely, A guy who dislikes the Cleary signing

#2531443 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 11 July 2014 - 12:53 AM

not the point. the fact that holland would even suggest he should get a NTC, let alone actually give him one, just shows how delusional he is


Getting upset over the NTC is just looking for an excuse to complain. We all agree it is not a good signing. We get it. The NTC is a minor detail that Cleary asked for to prevent ending up somewhere like Buffalo. It isn't a big deal. He wouldn't get traded regardless. 


I do think calling for Holland to be fired over this is overreacting. You'd think he traded Hank and Dats for a 5th round pick with what's being said about him. If Cleary has a bounce back year, then great. If not, no big deal. His career as a Wing would come to an end. No harm done. But some are acting as if Holland blatantly passed on guys like Vanek or Richards just so he can sign Cleary instead. Doesn't work that way, folks. 

#2531438 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 11 July 2014 - 12:23 AM

A NTC means nothing for this contract. IF he can't keep up and play decent hockey, nobody would take him on in a trade regardless. And if he does play well, that's good for us. Only a NMC would make this signing worst. And that isn't the case.

#2531428 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 11:00 PM

If we can get Winter Classic Cleary come playoff time, I'll forgive Holland. Until then, damnit.

#2531421 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 10:41 PM

I'm not mad at Cleary either. None of this is his fault and who would turn down the opportunity presented to him by Holland?

My biggest gripe is we all know Cleary is going to get the benefit of the doubt again come September. There really shouldn't even be a competition, though -- Tomas Jurco has already proven himself to be an NHL player (certainly better than Cleary) and yet there's a pretty good chance he starts in Grand Rapids just because the option is there. If it's Cleary competing for a roster spot with Andersson


Assuming Alfie comes back, there wouldn't be a spot right away for Jurco anyway until an injury allows it. I'm just gonna hope for the best that Cleary can put a solid season together. I don't expect 2008 Cleary, of course. But even just playing responsible hockey while chipping in every now and again would be nice. I just hope he holds up and that we can get playoff warrior Cleary back. 


Just hoping for a Dallas Drake type season from him. Keep it together long enough to leave nothing on the table come playoff time. Even broken down Cleary has shown he can still be effective come April. 

#2531411 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 10:27 PM



Good to know his knee seems to be doing much better now. I do hope he proves us wrong, and I'm glad he understands he has to earn a spot in the lineup. Like I said before, he does not hurt the team if he can't keep up and ends up in the press box. Watching all the games doesn't take a roster spot from anybody in GR. 


The signing is frustrating. That's something I agree with. I do think it is crappy for certain fans (mainly twitter) to be bashing Cleary over it. The guy wants to play. Sure I don't think it should be here, but I can't fault the guy for still having the determination to contribute. This is one situation where I am dying to eat some crow.


Prove us all wrong, Dano.

#2531326 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 07:27 PM

I'd buy into the whole, "the best players will play" thing if last year didn't go down the way it did - with some of this team's best talent in the AHL... *sigh*


But in the end, old guys were benched for the kids. It didn't start well, but in the end the best players did play. If it continues to be that way, this isn't a big deal.

#2531282 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 06:13 PM


There is no positive to this, unless you are Helene St. James. First off, just because you have cap space doesn't mean blowing it on players that aren't going to help the team is prudent. Even for a year, it is completely not necessary to keep Cleary around. The Wings have an abundance of veteran leadership; all of which are still capable of playing hockey. Cleary doesn't add anything to the locker room, that isn't already there in the likes of Zetterberg, Kronwall, Datsyuk, probably Alfredsson too. 


Second, Dan Cleary is not reverting to previous form. 35 years old with no knees and other injury history is not an ideal reclamation project. I loved Cleary, but he hasn't been remotely useful in years because his style of play eventually broke him down physically. You don't get that back with age and some time at the gym. The simple fact is the Red Wings have superior talent already on the roster that are now at risk of losing their spot because of Cleary. Not to mention, there is a precedent set from not even a year ago that the Wings are willing to demote players to Grand Rapids at the expense of veterans with nothing of value to offer the team. 


Realistic is knowing Ken Holland's history and realizing how this is going to play out. None of which makes the Red Wings a better team come September. I don't quite understand what making a trade has to do with Cleary either. Much like the Quincey signing, Holland's best course of action was to do nothing. Instead, in typical fashion, he made a bad situation worse by clinging to his fascination with players he knows and washed up veterans. I can somewhat deal with striking out on free agents, but making senseless moves for the sake of doing something is far worse than just letting everything be. 


Again, I ask what is the direction of the Red Wings organization under Ken Holland right now? It obviously isn't youth movement, as many times as Holland prefers to lie to us otherwise. Holland is insulting the fan base with claims of letting the kids play when every move he makes indicates the opposite entirely. It isn't win now either or else we aren't all discussing Dan Cleary re-signing. So that leads me to believe extending the playoff streak and lingering in mediocrity is the preferred vision of the front office. 


Yeah, Cleary will look terrific not being able to skate in our five game first round loss. 


To be fair he was one of the more productive forwards in the 2013 playoffs. Say what you want about the guy, but when it comes playoff time, he leaves it all on the table. Also one of the only guys on the roster who can get those much needed garbage goals. Yes, it is a shame his body is broken down. But because of the fact he is here for the season, there is no harm in hoping he can step it up for the playoffs one last time. 


It's a bad signing. I get it. I agree with it. But it is done. So I'm damn well gonna hope for the best.

#2531255 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 05:39 PM

I don't like the signing, but for the sake of the team, I hope Cleary proves us all wrong. 

#2531244 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 05:31 PM


Well, that's wonderful for you.


I agree, that generally there's a time and a place for such restraint and perspective.


And then there's the day that Ken Holland signed Dan Cleary again.


If ever there was a day to blow off some steam, it's today...


Too be fair, people have been blowing off steam for the past 10 days  :lol:

#2531203 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 04:51 PM


Do you really believe that Holland will release or demote Cleary over a youngster that can be sent down even if the youngster completely outplays Cleary?? What message does it send to the young players in the organization? They preach to them to work hard and youll earn your spot but all they end up seeing is those spots theyve earned given to players that should have been put out to pasture years ago.


When did I say that? I clearly said in a previous post that there will have to be a couple guys in the press box, and that Cleary is better suited to that than a guy like Jurco. You want Jurco in that role instead of playing top line minutes in Grand Rapids? Jurco would be in the AHL to start the season without Cleary. Stop acting like this signing is holding him back. It isn't.


Edit: People can get on my case all they want. I'm just trying to discuss the signing itself rather than see this become yet ANOTHER Holland bashing thread. Don't we already have enough of those?

#2531199 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 04:49 PM


The only way he doesn't play is if he gets hurt and can't play. That's how it worked this past season with him and Samuelsson. There's no "hard line" with him. It's a lie.


Then why did he end up a healthy scratch last season?

#2531192 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

Since I dont like to just watch dumpster fires, here's even more fuel:


Per Khan:


This same article also has Holland saying Cleary will have to beat out other players to be in the lineup. But lets ignore that because it isn;t in line with Holland bashing.

#2531093 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 03:45 PM

I'm just gonna hope he is able to earn his in game bonus. If he plays bad, he'll be scratched. If he gets hurt, he won't play. If he plays well, good for us. 


I'd rather him not be signed at all, but the deal has been made, so I'm not going to get angry about it. It isn;t handicapping the teams future by any means, so it isn't the end of the world. Knee jerk reaction free is the way to be.