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Member Since 03 Oct 2007
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#2531244 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 05:31 PM


Well, that's wonderful for you.


I agree, that generally there's a time and a place for such restraint and perspective.


And then there's the day that Ken Holland signed Dan Cleary again.


If ever there was a day to blow off some steam, it's today...


Too be fair, people have been blowing off steam for the past 10 days  :lol:

#2531203 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 04:51 PM


Do you really believe that Holland will release or demote Cleary over a youngster that can be sent down even if the youngster completely outplays Cleary?? What message does it send to the young players in the organization? They preach to them to work hard and youll earn your spot but all they end up seeing is those spots theyve earned given to players that should have been put out to pasture years ago.


When did I say that? I clearly said in a previous post that there will have to be a couple guys in the press box, and that Cleary is better suited to that than a guy like Jurco. You want Jurco in that role instead of playing top line minutes in Grand Rapids? Jurco would be in the AHL to start the season without Cleary. Stop acting like this signing is holding him back. It isn't.


Edit: People can get on my case all they want. I'm just trying to discuss the signing itself rather than see this become yet ANOTHER Holland bashing thread. Don't we already have enough of those?

#2531199 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 04:49 PM


The only way he doesn't play is if he gets hurt and can't play. That's how it worked this past season with him and Samuelsson. There's no "hard line" with him. It's a lie.


Then why did he end up a healthy scratch last season?

#2531192 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

Since I dont like to just watch dumpster fires, here's even more fuel:


Per Khan:


This same article also has Holland saying Cleary will have to beat out other players to be in the lineup. But lets ignore that because it isn;t in line with Holland bashing.

#2531093 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 03:45 PM

I'm just gonna hope he is able to earn his in game bonus. If he plays bad, he'll be scratched. If he gets hurt, he won't play. If he plays well, good for us. 


I'd rather him not be signed at all, but the deal has been made, so I'm not going to get angry about it. It isn;t handicapping the teams future by any means, so it isn't the end of the world. Knee jerk reaction free is the way to be.

#2531081 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 03:39 PM

Cleary signs with Red Wings. $1.5 plus $1M I'm games bonuses.one year

#2531067 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by marcaractac on 10 July 2014 - 03:34 PM

It's ok, folks. He'll be injured by November and miss the rest of the season anyway.

#2530935 Kane & Toews Sign Identical 8-year, $10.5M AAV Extensions

Posted by marcaractac on 09 July 2014 - 09:44 PM

Unless there is another Lockout around the corner this should handcuff the Hawks pretty badly. If I got my math right thats over 25% (close to a third) of their current capspace tied into these two players.

Cap is gonna keep going up. These contracts won't be bad in 3 years time

#2530645 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by marcaractac on 08 July 2014 - 04:00 PM


To be fair, literally half of our defense can NEITHER play defense NOR score points.  He's at least an improvement in that regard. 


The problem isn't the lack of ability to defend, it is a lack of ability to move the puck out of the zone. Green would make this team MUCH better at that. Pair him with a Kronwall or Ericsson and all will be fine.

I've seen a lot of Tatar or jurco as a trade item. Why not Anderson? Washington needs centers and you could add franzen and or a pick to get the deal done. Anderson is already an extra piece in our lineup


Andersson is definitely expendable, he just doesn't have any trade value. You might get a 4th round draft pick for him if you're lucky. Even that I feel is being generous. He is solid defensively, and can chip in points from time to time, but he is too slow. That will always hold him back.

#2530643 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by marcaractac on 08 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

Keep Tatar over Jurco? Really?? Please tell me you're the only Wings fan that would do that... Jurco has top line winger written all over him. Tatar on the other hand is a middling 2nd, 3rd line winger. I guarantee when GM's are talking to Ken Holland, they are asking for Jurco long before Tatar is mentioned. But no need to worry because Green shouldn't cost anything close to any of those guys...


Ideally you'd like to keep them both, but if I had to choose one to trade, it would be Tatar. Not a knock on him at all, but Jurco is gonna be a special player. He has size and knows how to use it.

#2530577 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 08 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

That be a foolish bet. Looking at guys like z dat Weiss and Franzen they're trending down injury wise. So why on earth would you expect it to be different? It's fine to hope and dream but you're basically asking for the sun to rise from the west...


The issues Hank have been having have been repaired. Weiss will be fine. He was stubborn and played hurt, and made things worst. He will be healthy and good to go this season. The extra long summer will help  Datsyuk a lot. There are also no olympics to cause him to keep playing hurt so he can represent his country. Franzen being out from time to time won;t be the end of the world with the depth in the system. In the end, it is highly unlikely these guys combined miss anywhere close to what they did last year. Wouldn't be a foolish bet what so ever.

#2530543 Marchenko

Posted by marcaractac on 08 July 2014 - 08:14 AM

They clearly didn't know that Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan were ready to go... It took loads of injuries to find out. Same thing will happen again in all likelihood with the D. If there is anything you can expect from the Wings and Holland - they never change. 


And what if Holland said screw it and went with the kids right from the start, and they struggled? Holland would still be getting bashed. Like it or not, a team will never willingly go into a season with half a dozen kids in the lineup. It's a risk no GM would take, unless it is a rebuilding team who has cleaned house of veteran players. In the end, they all got their chance to play. That's what matters. They have now earned their spots in the lineup. They weren't handed to them. Sure they had to play due to injuries, but if they didn't perform, they wouldn't have stayed. And before this past season, neither of those 3 players earned a spot on the Wings roster. They sure have since though. You could have made a case for Nyquist sure, but he wasn't the kind of player you put on a checking line. And you don't pass up on a guy like Alfie when a kid can still play in the AHL. Cleary was a big contributor in the previous playoff run. No surprise they brought him back. It didn't work out, but hey. When it never, the kids got to play. It's frustrating at times, yes. But that's the way it is. 


I do think Marchenko has a great shot at earning a spot on the 3rd pairing. Especially if Holland can land an offensive dman via trade.

#2530487 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by marcaractac on 07 July 2014 - 07:13 PM

I'm not really advocating tanking, but it worked pretty well for Pittsburgh and Chicago. The structure of the league just lends better to a compete rebuild than getting stuck in mediocrity. The Calgary Flames are the perfect example.


The thing about Calgary is that while the team was declining, they had a very shallow prospect pool, so it all just kind of snowballed until they finally decided to embrace a rebuild. Wings don't have that issue. We have a very deep prospect pool, so while having a terrible year and a lottery pick would no doubt give the team a shot at getting a great, young talent (not a guarantee), with the depth in the farm it isn't necessary. The kids just need to get the experience and learn how to win at the NHL level. Just takes time. And once they get there, Holland has plenty of assets to make the moves that need to be made. All tanking a season would do is get a high draft pick that may or may not pan out. 

#2530485 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 07 July 2014 - 07:08 PM


That's true, I couldn't remember how many times he had traded down.  And to be honest, I don't have a problem with trading #24 for #35 and #48.  24 and 35 are pretty much a wash anyway.  Quincey is the one that's backfired.  My issue is that Holland seems afraid to try to make more moves that could improve the team... sometimes standing pat doesn't hurt, but it doesn't help, either.  No risk, no reward.  Perhaps he looks back to the Oates trade or the big Oilers trade (Graves, Carson, etc.) where the Wings got burned and doesn't want to be that GM... I don't know.


If it were up to Holland completely, most of the "solid young core" would still be in Grand Rapids.


Moves will be made when the time is right. It is the right move to let the kids show what they can do first. The team has a nice mix of youth and vets right now as it is, so the team will be fine. When they are on the cusp of being able to make a run, moves will happen. 


Not much progress seems to have happened when looking at the teams stats, but when you look at the roster, they have come such a long way. The team was able to reload quickly when the cap era began, as the defense was still led by #5. This reload is taking much longer, as the bulk of the defense right now is very young. But they'll get there. I said it many times before, but I'd bet money this season is when we start to see the upswing.


I was pumped when we got Carson, I thought he was going to be a stud here.  He didn't perform badly, just not at the levels he did in LA and Edmonton... I forgot we got Coffey for him!

I completely agree with your last paragraph.  He is afraid to move "assets"... I saw an interview with him on TV where he talked about that very thing.  He said (paraphrased) that players were assets and you hang on to them, why would you move them?  I was a little dumbfounded... Wayne Friggin' Gretzky has been traded!  Twice!!  You can move anybody you want!  The last time Holland has traded what I consider a "roster regular" (top 8 F, top 4 D, starting G) was... 2001.  Slava Kozlov.  For Hasek, who would have been a UFA the very next day.  I never really understood that deal.  Why not wait, sign him, and keep Kozlov?  Or move him for someone else?  Also, I don't count Brad Stuart in that equation, since he was days away from being a UFA himself, and it was clear he was going back go Cali.  (Side note... where was Holland when Stuart got traded to Colorado the other day??)


That was just bad, unlucky timing. Holland had high hopes of landing one of the UFA's, and by then Stuart was already moved. But them's the breaks

#2530457 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 07 July 2014 - 04:21 PM

...although it seems now he isn't too concerned about making moves for an immediate run. But he also is NOT endangering our future. I like our kids and our top 25 prospects.


I definitely don't think it is the worst thing in the world to see what this roster can do with the kids having spots right out of camp. Getting that top 4 puck moving dman is the only glaring need, where as the rest can definitely can be gauged a few months into the season. If the team is competing and winning, the time would definitely then be right to put some of those assets to use to fill any holes in the lineup. As long as the moves make sense. But the kids have to take that next step in their development for things to get there. They got to show that they can produce consistently, and still make an impact against the best teams in the league.