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Member Since 03 Oct 2007
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#2530448 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 07 July 2014 - 03:18 PM

SOW this isn't a shot at you, but there does seem to be a feeling that trading a young prospect only means we are going to get a 34 year old guy with 1 or 2 years left to play. Look at the 3 big F that got moved so far this off season: Kesler, Neal, and Spezza. None of those deals broke the banks of the teams that picked them up. Trueth be told, we could have made all 3 of those deals, been a much better team, and still had some young guys left over. Not to mention we had the cap space for it. While prospects are nice and all, most never pan out. That is true and will always be true. Same was true with the Nash deal, not getting O'reilly, and Ryan. That is 6 big time F that have been moved or available lately that we could have had, failed to get, all but 1 are under 30. Meanwhile we have been 15th or so in scoring the last 2 years, with most of our prospects burried in the minors.


Spezza wasn't a need, Kessler wanted either Anaheim or Chicago, and the Pens shipped Neal out west. 



You said he "never" did anything to build for an immediate run and sacrifice the future.  He did.  Yes, it was a while ago, before the Cap.  But that's not "never".


*edit-- 4 of 9 first rounders traded since 2006.


So Holland trading down first rounders because the player he wants is still available is hurting the teams future? I'd hardly call trading a late 1st for 2 second rounders sacrificing the future. Also, precap era trading firsts wasn't a big deal. They brought in players they wanted and had the money to keep them. Not to mention they were able to outspend almost any other team in free agency. Late first round picks were fairly meaningless for this franchise back then. You also can't consider trading a late first rounder for 2 picks hurting the franchise either. 


The ONLY first round pick traded you can make any possible case for is the Quincey trade. That is one pick. One pick will not hurt this team in the long run. 


Has he made moves for an immediate run? Yes. Has he ever hurt the future of the franchise by doing so? No. 

#2530443 What's best for Mantha?

Posted by marcaractac on 07 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

I didn't say it was an underachievement...but because of those back to back, you would think that Canada would stay with the format.  Yet, they are changing it.  Its no secret players do not like playing for Mike Babcock.  Maybe because he is a prick?  Sure, you say Scotty was a prick and players didn't like playing for him, but players from 15 years ago and a different breed than todays players.  Plus, Bowman is Bowman and Babcock is not.  He is the issue here.  Maybe its just time for a change because players just don't respond to him anymore, I don't know.  But its sad when even Swedish defensemen are shunning the chance to come to Detroit.


What team were you watching last season? The players worked their asses off for Babcock. 


People continue to blame Babs for UFA's not coming here. We missed out on Suter because he buddied with Parise. At one point Suter to Detroit seemed all but a done deal. Boyle went to the rags. At his age, why not sign with a team that just made the finals? Niskanen joined his buddy Orpik in Washington. Last year Holland got the two guys he wanted. They didn't seem to concerned about Babcock. People love a scapegoat. The first Babcock-less season the Red Wings have, a lot of people are gonna realize how wrong they are about him.


Babcock will be a great coach for Mantha. A player that size with the work ethic Babcock commands will be a great thing to see. 

#2530316 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 06 July 2014 - 10:18 PM


Do you really think NHL players don't pay any attention to other teams, other players?  I'd bet that most of them have a good idea of what's going on in other cities.  A lot of these guys have friends on other teams.  They also play against these teams all season, every season.  To say they don't study their opponents enough to know who's doing what for other teams... man, I wouldn't say that.  And it's not one year of striking out, it's multiple years of July 1st and Trade Deadline swings and misses.  Also, what do you call giving away early-round draft picks like Halloween candy in 1999 and sitting out the first round in 9 of the last 15 drafts?


You realize that most of those 1st round picks were traded before the cap era right? What does moves made in the precap era have to do with how the team is being built now? Short answer: nothing. 

#2530178 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 05 July 2014 - 09:41 PM

Thing is - the only thing we are doing right is drafting and developing. There are many other components of team management such as:

- conditioning (injuries)

- trading

- signing free agents

- etc.

And we are failing in every category right now other than drafting and developing. 


Conditioning: most injuries were from the old guys that didn't play a game. Out side of that, you had Helm with his freak bad luck, Hank with a bad back that was lingering for a few years (but is now finally fixed!), Weiss trying to play through an injury which has made it a lot worse, then just unlucky injuries to guys like Dekeyser. Datsyuk's injuries were the most concerning, but the extra long summer I'm sure will do him wonders as well. So with the old guys gone, Hank, Weiss, and Helm healthy, any injuries this season should be those that can be overcome. Should be a lot less pulled groins this season. 


Trading: Moves are made when they make sense. Why trade prospects/picks now when many of the kids on the roster still have some improving left to do? Babcock has said himself that teams ready to make a run makes trades for the final pieces of the puzzle. The Wings aren't quite there yet. They will be. Making trades for missing pieces now just hinders the future. Build as much from within as possible first, THEN make trades. Why make trades now when some holes can be filled from within just by getting more experience? Just thins out the prospect pool for the franchise down the road, meaning we'd just have to deal with yet another reload in a few years. The team is building for long term success in the cap world. Be patient.


Signing UFA's: When this team is on the upswing again, it will once again become a place people want to play. Much like the fans who are calling for the team to tank the season, all UFA's see is the big picture. They see a Wings team that has been getting worst as far as wins/losses go. They don't see that a new, younger generation of Wings is slowly stepping it up and taking over. Once the young guns learn how to win, UFA's will want to come here again. One year of striking out on everyone is not the end of the world.


So no, Holland is not failing at everything but drafting and developing. Not saying he has been perfect. Like any GM, he has made mistakes. But he had made no mistakes that jeopardize the future of this franchise. He has never sacrificed the future of this team just to try and make a run at it all now. 

#2530175 What's best for Mantha?

Posted by marcaractac on 05 July 2014 - 09:28 PM

Unless he can indisputably steal a top 6 foward's job out of camp (which is very doubtful), he should play the entire year in the AHL. He has a lot of work ahead of him to get his overall game where it needs to be for the pros. 

#2530132 It's too bad about us having Weiss...

Posted by marcaractac on 05 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

Last year the team spent a lot of time crippled down the middle. I think this season strength and depth down the middle will be the teams biggest asset.

#2530130 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 05 July 2014 - 03:58 PM


Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results?  That's the definition of insanity.


This would also assuming that players have the exact same season each and every year, which is not the case. Younger players will keep getting better. Dead weight has been trimmed from the lineup. Hank's back was fixed. Results this year will be different. The team will improve. 

#2529990 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by marcaractac on 04 July 2014 - 03:41 PM


Nobody on these forums wants that trade.  What a lot of us DO want is for the manager to do something to actually improve the team.  But, apparently, mediocrity and status-quo are perfectly acceptable in the bowels of the JLA.


I don't see mediocrity as being acceptable by management what so ever. They are doing as much building from within as they can, and the right moves will be made to fill holes on the roster when the players we do have show they can compete and are capable of making a run, while pieces will be added along the way when possible. It is just unfortunate that some UFA's said no. (which is the right way to do things in the cap era). We just don't have the luxury of lottery picks to stack the prospect pool, and because of that, developing players takes some time. And I get it, some fans aren't as patient as others. That's what 20 years of success will do to a fanbase. It becomes the expectation. 


When it comes to UFA's, it isn't like they spend the last year of their contracts scouting teams to see where they should go. They just look at the big picture and see a Red Wings team that had consecutive years off a win/loss record getting worse. But when you look passed that, you see a lot of realgud, young talent that keep improving and are gradually taking on bigger roles on the team. I'd bet money that this coming season is where the upswing begins. Once that happens, this franchise will become a place players want to come once again. These things just take time.


Singing a guy like Quincey just allows Holland to buy time to get that top 4 righty this team needs without having to throw too many rookie defensemen into the fire at once on an already young squad that are still learning the game at this level. Great times are coming. The team has a nice blend of vets and kids up front. They'll soon get there on the back end as well. Howard got passed his first year on a new contract, where it is not uncommon for players to struggle. Especially with goalies. But almost just as common is the fact that these players bounce back. We also have Hank who finally got his back fixed. I feel he will have a monster season. In the end, I think a lot of people's frustrations will begin to subside this season.

#2529878 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by marcaractac on 03 July 2014 - 07:35 PM

I think Mantha should be given every opportunity to make this team in the top 6. He needs looks early on. Jurco should start the season where he ended it - kid line. 


Mantha needs to learn how to play in the pros first. It would be great if he comes into camp and preseason and sets the world on fire. But he is going from playing against teenagers younger than him to playing against men. He will need to adjust to that. 

#2529857 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 03 July 2014 - 05:53 PM

That's an interesting point. Why don't you think that pairing works? In a sense, Quincey doesn't produce offense so he "must be" a defensive defensemen. Yet he doesn't pair well with Smith because he sucks at being a defensive defenseman. Which kind of made me think.. who actually pairs well with Quincey? In my mind... nobody? Maybe Ericsson... but boy is that D pairing a couple of fat rooted trees. Probably a huge reason why nobody wanted this contract is because he doesn't fit well with anybody. What kind of "role" does KFQ play? He doesn't hit, he doesn't score, he's not overly gifted in his own zone. He just sort of does nothing out there.


Just one of those things where 2 players do not mesh. Can't be explained, but sometimes it happens. Quincey is good defensively, it just took him a frustratingly long time to show that. He also put up points a little more consistently once he got over the all around awfulness. Not saying he was scoring a lot, but he chipped in from time to time. My guess he is either paired with Dekeyser or he is on the 3rd pairing while still playing 20 minutes per game.


I also still think a trade happens to bring in the puck mover we all wanna see. Keeping Quincey just gives Holland flexibility in making the right deal. Whether that be during the summer, or during the season. In the end, he couldn't go into the season with 2 rookies on defense. And really, who else out there is as solid as Quincey was before returning to Detroit? Sure they could have gotten someone else. But what's to say they wouldn't struggle like Quincey has while adjusting to a new team? He overpaid for less risk. But being just 2 years, it's fine. I'd understand the fury if it were a longer deal at that price. But at 2 years, he isn't hurting the team. He is a capable defenseman. Not the ideal signing, but reliable when you look passed the early struggles. This is not an old man Sammy contract. That contract was far worse. 

#2529771 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 03 July 2014 - 01:42 PM

If Quincey could play like he did the last 3-4 weeks of last season, I'd actually be pretty happy with him on the team.


The key is no more Smith/Quincey pairing. Keep them apart, along with a healthy Ericsson and the defense is already a lot better than late season. Not even counting the fact that DeKeyser and Smith will only improve. 


While I don't think Holland is done with the defense at all, even if all that happens is getting rid of Kindl and bumping Lashoff down to #7, the defense is much improved. Because once Q and Smith were split up, the issue was always the 3rd pairing. 

#2529765 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 03 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

Quicney is overpaid, yes. But it is just 2 years. This contract is nowhere near as awful as Samuelsson's a couple years back. Don't care what anyone says. Short contracts always result is being overpaid. Thems the breaks. But if I had to choose between having Quincey come back or Kindl come back, it would be Quincey any day of the damn week. I will not defend how bad he was early in the season. But with how solid he was beyond that, having him back is a lot less of a risk than having 2 rookies playing at the same time in an already young defense. What happens when an injury inevitably happens? Have half the dmen be rookies? 


I highly doubt Holland is just sitting on his ass waiting for the season to start. There is no doubt in my mind he is still trying to find that top 4 dman. This signing is just something to fall back on . Not the end of the world in my opinion. The cap hit doesn't even matter. It's not like that money was gonna be spent on a UFA when they already went elsewhere. 


For those blaming Quincey single handedly for double digit losses, you're assuming the Wings would have won each of those games he didn't give up a costly turnover. Hardly the case at all, as last season's inexperienced Wings found many other ways to lose games. Like I said before though, I'm not defending how bad he was early on. He was terrible. But once he and Smith were broken up, they both got worlds better. 

#2528950 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 01 July 2014 - 06:43 PM

I personally would've rather seen kids from GR get their chance at the #5, and #6 spots on defense.


That would be more frustrating to watch than Kindl and Lashoff in these past playoffs. Pair a kid with someone with experience and defensibly responsible. 







That doesn't look as bad as many here are making it out to be. Not as good as it could have been, I agree. But Quincey was very good late in the season and the playoffs. If he can keep that up, I'm fine with him being here. It's just 2 years. Plenty of time for kids to get some experience and try and steal his roster spot in 2 years time. Not the end of the world, folks. 

#2528923 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 01 July 2014 - 06:34 PM

The man got a raise. A RAISE.


Who cares? The other players went elsewhere. It's not like that money was gonna be spent elsewhere. I get being disappointed in not landing a big UFA today, but the amount of hate and overreacting going on in here is ridiculous. 

#2528915 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 01 July 2014 - 06:32 PM

The bottom pairing was the issue. Not Q. Quincey and Dekeyser were actually very solid together. Sure he is overpaid, but it's free agency. Everyone is. People really need to chill. Other UFA's didn't want to come here. Get over it.