I agree on Weiss, I think he'll be chomping at the bit to get after everyone after he signed that contract last summer.
What would you sign Niskanen to? 6 years too long? He's a good defensemen, but what has me on the fence is whether or not he's worth that kind of value, or whether he's been inflated by the fact that he's the best FA D man this year, and he was playing in a system where he was feeding pucks to 2 of the best players in the game today.
As far as contract goes, I think 6 million per year at whatever term it takes to get him is fair. Even if it has to go a little beyond that, I think Holland should do it. Sounds crazy, yes. But the cap will rise, and that contract gets better and better. He is a player who would become a part of the core of this team for many years. He is only entering his prime. With his age and skill, money can't be what makes him go elsewhere.
Detroit's biggest problem last season was not enough puck moving dmen. Another huge issue was not having enough dmen who can get a point shot through. Niskanen solves both of those issues, and is a righty to boot. Clarkson, Clowe. Those are UFA's you do not overpay for. Niskanen is one of those that you do. Much like Suter was a couple years back. If the overpayment is within reason, throw what he is looking for at him. At his age he still wouldn't be regressing at the end of a max term contract.
Edit: He'd still get to play with great players in Detroit as well. He'd also be a top pairing guy instead of a #4 guy. People always wonder why he'd choose Detroit over Pittsburgh. That right there is a big reason why. A bigger role is very appealing to a lot of players. They wanna be THE go to guy. Kronwall and Niskanen manning the point together on a PP. Just thinking about it makes me hope Holland can get him here.
Very good point. The fans will not be very happy though if Kenny signs this kid for $6.5 million a season and he tanks. Look at Weiss. Everyone celebrated this signing, and it was a risk, and he gets dogged over this move over signing Flip.
I am on the fence over this. I think he has a greater upside for sure.
The thing is, the Weiss signing still hasn't been proven to be a bad one. The guy was hurt. Very unfortunate, but he has done nothing to hurt the team. Even when he was playing while hurt, he was never a liability. He was being hindered by his injury and couldn't produce the way he is capable of. I am 100% convinced he will shut a lot of people up this coming season.
As for Niskanen, people keep on preaching one good year, but he was a very good player before this past season to. He kept improving each and every year, and will likely continue to do so. His style is exactly what this team needs. Like Rafalski was in 2007, Niskanen would be the perfect fit for this team and would make the Wings that much better.
Looking at the East, the likes of Boston and Pittsburgh are gonna lose a couple players. They will still be strong teams, but it is looking like they may not be as strong as last season (which could change of course). Both teams are having cap issues. This is the Wings chance to get better and get closer to their level. Sign Niskanen and see what the team got. With continued improvement of the kids, address further needs at the deadline if no moves make sense this summer.
I think I'd be ok with it as long as the cap hit was around $5m, even if he gets 6 years. Anything over that creates an elephant that is really difficult to move.
False. With the cap increasing, even 6 million per year becomes a very nice contract for a player of his caliber in 2-3 years.
Agree, but the question remains. Can he produce like a $6-$7 million dollar player? Callahan just signed for $6 million a season. Niskanen wants that kind of money for one season of solid production. You know that some club is going to offer him a big contract and he will sign with them. I would be very nervous about signing him for $6 million, much the less the $7 million he is going to get from someone.
A team will never improve if they don't take a risk from time to time.
Would be great to get him here for 7 years at 6 million per. Sure that sounds like a lot of money, but the cap is only gonna keep going up. A couple seasons from now that turns into a great contract if his production doesn't drop off.
You must be drunk. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Helm WILL play a combined 4 games and Weiss is a joke. Unless we sign Vanek, Gaborik, Niskanen, and Callahan we will go out in the first round AGAIN and we'll be no better than Florida and Buffalo.
Holland smokes too much Cleary to do anything even close to intelligent.
Oh, also need to buyout Franzen, trade for Weber, and somehow acquire Ekblad. Can you get that through your noggan? Or are you too busy wearing your rose tinted spectacles?
Dammit you're right. Maybe Holland can sign that Lebron feller? I hear he is free.
Edit: I'm sure Kindl and LAshoff can land us Weber. 2 players for one, how can they refuse?!
Also, if the Wings were to tank. The vets would all leave to try and win elsewhere. Then our current youth would have nobody to learn from. This organization is where it is because of how the youth is developed and what they learn from veterans. You think Hank would be the player he is today without learning leadership, work ethic, and sacrificing points to become one of the best 2 way players in the world? Tanking seasons would break this. Sure you could end up becoming the next Blackhawks with a skilled, young core. But guys like Toews don't grow on trees either. People can hate on him all they want, but in 20 years from now people will look at him as one of the greatest captains in the modern era. Sure, you may find another Toews in a future draft with a top pick. Yet you may end up with a Yakupov. Tanking isn't the answer.
The team is struggling in the rebuild because we lost #5 and have a LOT of young players in the lineup at once. They'll get to play a lot more with the eurotwins this season. They will get better.
Another problem with the original argument is that all drafts are not equal in talent depth and top 10 is really an arbitrary line to draw.
This year we have the 15th pick. All the talking head say that the talent level drops after the first few players and no one agrees on the order for players after these first few players. So the 7th choice and the 15th choice are really ranked pretty equally. Would it really help us to have the 10th pick this year? Would that mean we could then win the cup?
Truth. In the end, the Oilers 100% debunk the original argument. If top 10 picks were key, the Oilers would be repeating their 80's success right now.
That's a level of complexity that I'd like to avoid if possible. We don't need a guy that isn't fully healthy and/or can easily break again. Weiss is already a HUGE question mark. Both Z and D had their issues this past year. Franzen and Helm are also regulars on the shelf.
It would be interesting to bring Alfie to camp with no contract. For better or worse... but knowing Holland, we will have the cap space to sign him before the season begins. The question will be... will there be a roster spot?
I'm getting the impression if Alfie gets healthy, wants to play, and there is cap space for him, he'll be back. I'm glad they aren't just jumping the gun and signing him and hoping for the best.
As far as other names you have mentioned, I think Weiss will have a big bounce back year.He seems very focused on conditioning this summer and if healthy he will be an important player. Hopefully Pasha can stay healthy. If the kids keep improving that will make things easier on him. I think Hank will have a big season now that he finally has his back fixed. Like Quincey said, it is the same type of surgery he has had, and health-wise he has been fine. The fact that Hank said he felt like a new man soon as he woke up from surgery is also very promising. I can see him having a big season without his back hindering him.
The emergence of the kids will also help Mule a lot. With depth that can score, there is less pressure on him. As long as he can play responsible in his own end when he isn't scoring, no harm. A cold streak doesn't necessarily make him a liability.
Now for Helm. When you look at the injuries he has had, it was more bad luck than anything. Sure he is a player who will miss a few games here and there because of his style. But things like his back, sliced tendons, groin issues after trying to come back after barely playing for almost 2 years. Not the types of things players have to deal with regularly. I think he will be fine this year. Kronwall used to have the same issues. A lot of bad luck. Dekeyser had a couple unfortunate injuries himself.
Either would be a great fit for one season. If healthy I'd love to see Alfie back, but Iggy can provide pretty much the same in terms scoring and leadership. Both players looked underwhelming in the playoffs (with Alfie of course getting big time overplayed in Sochi), so regardless of which, my guess would be limited minutes during the season with no back to back games to keep them as fresh as possible for April. An Olympic-free year would definitely do Alfie wonders. It basically comes down to Alfie being familiar with the team/system Vs Iggy being a tougher player.
We of course can't argue the future. So we don't know how Ed. will look in 5 years. The odds are more of their guys under 25 turn out than our guys under 25 do. The question for them is, do they have the patience to wait. Some of their guys may very well turn out to be stars for other teams.
Now back to what I was writing about. 70% of the SC winners had 4 or more top 10 picks on their team when they won. Yes some were to young to help, some never made it, and some were older vets going for one more cup. But most of those players were in the prime of their careers between 26 and 32. half were drafted by the team they won the cup with. The most any team had was 7.
Now that was just top 10 picks. Most teams had between 10-13 1st round picks on each team. But again those players were pretty close in terms of drafted by the same team they won a cup with or a different team.
Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Franzen, Kronwall, Rafalski. All in their primes, all big time players in the cup run. None a top 10 pick. Draft number is relative. A top 10 pick tends to have a better chance of being NHL ready sooner, sure. Not gonna argue that. What I don't buy is teams with higher picks having more young players turn out than the Wings will. Wings have been great at the draft, and their prospect pool is proof of that. The kids on the team now prove they belong, the kids who got a taste have shown that they will likely develop into key players for this team over the next few seasons. Guys like Jurco. You can see there is potential there for a real special player. There is a lot to be excited for. It is simply too soon to give up assets to fill holes on a roster where many of them can just be filled with the youth getting more experience.
Anything beyond the top 10 in a lot of draft years is a crap shoot. Heck, this year you can say that about anything beyond the top 4 or 5. A lot of top 10 picks also tend to take a few years to start reaching their potential. Some never do.
Health has been a big problem for this team as of late. A lot of the older, injury prone guys will be gone. If Alfie is back, he won't play as much as last season. I'd bet money on that. Him in a reduced role can be huge come playoff time. At the same time the kids can learn a lot from guys like him. Hank fixed his back. Mark my words. He is going to have a huge season. He is gonna be healthy, he is gonna be fired up, and he will be clutch. Helm's injuries have almost all been freak injuries. Then some groin issues when finally trying to return after almost no hockey in 2 years. That was to be expected. I feel Weiss will bounce back and make a lot of Wings fans eat crow. There's your top 10 pick. There will be a lot less pressure on Franzen with the continued development of Tatar and Goose. Dekeyser will learn to protect himself better. A healthy defense with an added puck mover makes for a nice, young mobile blueline. Kronwall got a lot of flack, but he was huge for the team all year long.
So yes, even with much of the same roster as last year, there is a lot of improvements that can simply be made with better luck. Being younger to start the season will translate less injuries. Keeping the same roster together for an entire season will allow the team to grow together, and get better. I get that there are holes in the roster. Most teams have em. But when this team is on the right track as far as getting 2 points on a regular basis and staying healthy, the right moves will be made. This team is a lot better than the stats last season showed. Now the right roster will be together right from the beginning to prove that. Just gotta have a little faith! I am aware I went way off topic. But that is a rant that just started to flow.
If people don't like my opinions, I couldn't care less. We do all have one thing in common: We want the RW's to win SC's. That simple. The fact is our record has gotten worse every year for the past 4 seasons. The answer being provided to us is: bring everyone back and expect better results. Nothing works like that.
Except this is hockey. Young players will continue to get better. A lot of great things happened in the past 2 seasons, but all some people focus on is the growing pains. Even when the Wings won it all in 2008, that was a planned 3 year process by management to get there. Stevie retired, Shanny left. Datsyuk and Zetterberg had to learn how to win. When the team showed they were ready to win, Holland brought in the missing pieces like Stuart to make it a complete, unstoppable team. It took 3 seasons for that to happen. Now we are basically one year into a new changing of the guard. Except this team is getting younger on a much larger scale than last time. When the kids learn how to win, the moves will be made to make a complete team once again. For the time being, having guys like Alfie around is a great thing. The kids learn a lot from guys like him. He is a leader. That will rub off on the younger generation of Wings.
I get that some people find losing frustrating. The team has won for a long ass time. But there is a lot of exciting things ging on with this team if people can just take the time to appreciate it. There will be growing pains, but this team will make everyone proud once again. Some simply look at their win/loss records over the last few seasons and are quick to point out that the team is on a downslide. Not the case what so ever.
Pretty well every team is gonna have at least one former top 10 pick on their roster. Of course Stanley cup winners are gonna have top 10 picks on their team. Is Edmonton gonna win a cup because their roster is loaded with top 10 picks?
The Wings top 10 pick in 2008 was Stuart. An important piece no doubt. But the guys who made that team what it was were far from top 10 picks. This is a VERY skewed way of looking at things.
There is a lot of young talent in the system. Moves will be made when they make sense. Not made for the sake of making moves. And when moves do get made, Holland will look for the right players to make the team better. Not simply trade for players because of the position they were drafted in. Talented players come from all over the place. Sure high draft picks more often than not are NHL ready at a younger age. On the flip side, sometimes they are a bust. But there are also a lot of great players out there who weren't even drafted in the first round, let alone the top 10. Sure sucking for a few years can allow a team to stock up in high draft picks in a timely manner. But that doesn't always translate to success either. There are teams who have been sucking for years, and they still do.
Detroit hasn't had the leisure of drafting a high, NHL ready prospect for a long time. So yes, they have to take the time to develop their players. But time has proved over, and over and over again that this team develops great players despite their draft position. Yeah, this particular rebuild is taking longer and hard to deal with for some fans. But that's what happens when you no longer have an all time great on the blueline to hold things together.
But sure, lets trade rosters with Edmonton. We'll have loads of top 10 picks so we'll be destined for a dynasty!
Spezza is a guy who wants out of Ottawa because he can't handle the finger being pointed at him when the team is losing. Is that the kind of guy some people really want to see here? He is getting paid to be a go to guy, but can't handle the pressure of being one. Let him go to Florida where nobody will care.