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#1837383 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 14 December 2009 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (ManLuv4Clears @ December 14, 2009 - 11:50AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's not debatable.

This probably is. As GS&T mentioned, there's nothing wrong with a face wash or shove to show that you don't appreciate the hacks and whacks on your goaltender. It's part of hockey and always has been. As he mentioned these will usually go un-penalized. The players on this team don't do so. Maybe it's choice or maybe it's the type of hockey they grew up playing; that being said, perhaps they don't know how to stand up for their goalie the way most teams do in the NHL. That's a matter of opinion on which way is most appropriate. Either way, the way this team is playing, a little emotion or fire wouldn't hurt.

That's what I'm talking about. That's what gets undermanned or undertalented teams over the top. They play with fire and passion. IMO, it's a show of character and pride and I wish I saw more of it.

#1837368 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 14 December 2009 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ December 14, 2009 - 11:27AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have a problem?

Just laughing at you for making stuff up.

#1837362 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 14 December 2009 - 11:20 AM

Lol. Personal attack.

#1837177 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 13 December 2009 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ December 13, 2009 - 10:12PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I never said that. You said this. Others can post about whatever they like. If I disagree, sometimes I'm going to say so, just like in this thread. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

Interesting. The closing sentence in your original post, of "Quit trying to make the team be somebody they aren't" seems to be telling me to not make threads like this because I'm trying to make them something they aren't. It seems you're oblivious to how hypocritical you're being.

I, as well as others have found a way to ignore you and allow you to continue on with your incessant whining all over this board about any and all things as irritating as it is. Can you not allow me to have my opinion that the Wings should stand up for themselves? Can I not make a thread with my opinion without you complaining about making the thread of my opinion? I believe it's within the forum rules.

#1837109 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 13 December 2009 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ December 13, 2009 - 02:34PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because I can post and make points on whatever I feel like given the forum rules, just like you did in making this thread. If I feel like saying something is like beating a dead horse or is a dead weight topic, I'm going to say it.

Right. So you can post about what you like, but others can't if you don't agree. Got it.


#1836170 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 12 December 2009 - 06:20 PM

QUOTE (CenterIce @ December 12, 2009 - 04:09PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stuart has had more of a concussion history than Lilja. We don't want what happened to Lilja happening to Stuart.

Lilja had an existing problem which went undiagnosed until the punch from Weber which caused it to become a real problem.

#1836033 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 12 December 2009 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE (SouthernWingsFan @ December 12, 2009 - 12:57PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This thread is like opening a can of worms or beating a dead horse about something that has been discussed probably 9000 times in here.

Ducks continued to take ridiculous stupid penalties, it eventually cost them.

If the Wings retaliate, they probably get more penalties and less power play opportunities.

This team doesn't retaliate much. Has been like that forever now. It doesn't mean they are soft or pansies or whatever. It means they just don't retaliate, nothing more or less. They are big boys and know how to stand up for themselves.

Quit trying to make the team be somebody they aren't.

They were last year and the year before that. I already made that point if you read my post. I never asked for fights. I asked for them to stand up for themselves and not get pushed around. Like our last two postseasons. I dunno why everyone has assumed I'm referring to fights. Fights aren't necessary to show strength and solidarity.

One more thing, Jack. If you don't like the discussion in this thread, why do you take part in it? There are tonnes of threads I don't particularly like. The best way I can think of to deal with them is to not read them. I know you hate this stuff and you think it's a pointless conversation. A very fair POV. I just don't understand why you insert yourself into it, if that's the case.

#1835975 Opponents hacking our goalies

Posted by Doggy on 12 December 2009 - 11:49 AM

I'm sick of seeing this s***. I don't care if we won last night. We probably shouldn't have. The Ducks just hack, whack and run Jimmy Howard whenever the puck is in or around the crease and nothing happens. This team isn't losing because of injuries. It's losing because it has no fire.

Heads are hanging low. The players are too timid to get in the face of an opponent that challenges them. You don't need to be a goon to stand up for your teammates. Not so long ago, a guy like Bertuzzi or Datsyuk would not just skate away after Corey Perry takes 3 or 4 whacks at his goalie while the puck is under his pads. You can't allow that to happen. Yet, it is allowed.

Losing free agents and getting injuries hurts. I'm not ignoring that. But it's not an excuse to allow other teams to push you around. It should be the opposite. The players should be MORE pissed and MORE driven to make sure their opponents know you cannot take liberties with the Detroit Red Wings. This was the hockey that was played in the '08 and '09 playoffs. It was energetic and inspired. Each player was in the game. Right now, you could count them on one hand in any given game. The worst thing about that is, in the past few weeks none of them have been our better players.

Injuries hurt. Indifference kills. Wake the f***, Red Wings and show some pride!!

#1807520 OHL Hit

Posted by Doggy on 03 November 2009 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 3, 2009 - 11:32AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have a point? Plenty of hits happen quickly after the puck is gone (note how I said POTENTIALLY). In many cases however the hit is made to get the player to lose the puck either by their own will or by the force of the hit.

I still am wondering where you are going with this and what it has to do with the hit in question.

You seem to have missed the times I've mentioned that I don't mind a hit like that at the NHL-level. They're all bigger, stronger and smarter. It's still not a legal IMO, but it's part of the game. They know (or at least should know) how to protect themselves. That video you posted has as much to do with my contention as a scene from 'Debbie Does Dallas'.

In my view, this stuff is completely unnecessary in a developmental league with 16 year olds skating around. It's a recipe for disaster when you've got these hulking, skill-less 20 year olds floating around with underagers that are still growing and learning the game. If these guys decide to flatten a player who isn't quite cagey enough to protect himself properly, that kid gets flattened. The results were made more unfortunate by the fact his helmet came off on impact but luckily, this is NOT the worst that could've happened. He could be dead right now.

Doc, you don't agree. That's fine. But try to absorb what I'm saying here because you're missing my point entirely. I'm aware that hockey's a dangerous sport. It always will be. It's the nature of the game and it's part of what makes it the best sport on Earth. But protecting players, in particular kids, should never be disregarded.

#1807405 OHL Hit

Posted by Doggy on 03 November 2009 - 09:03 AM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 3, 2009 - 08:55AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure he does, but not because he did something wrong.

It's because he made a hit that ended up with arguably the worst result. If the kid didn't turn his back last second he might have been perfectly fine and it would have been a highlight reel OHL hit. Would people still be getting angry at his hit?

Well he went in there trying to demolish him. Mission accomplished. I'll ask the question again -- who benefitted from it?

#1807310 OHL Hit

Posted by Doggy on 02 November 2009 - 11:39 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 2, 2009 - 11:28PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So scouts don't look at physicality when it comes to whether they should be picked up? Sure it is only one thing, but if a player busts his ass every shift and does everything he can to help his team, then hell yes he is going to have a better chance than the guy who coasts around and attempts to do pretty s*** to get noticed.

And once again, some players don't even have a shot, so why should they let up if this may be the last competitive league they ever play in?

Being strong and physical is an addition to a good young players other assets.

It can be the reason you are drafted in the first round and not the third. But it's never the reason you are drafted.

D#1fan sums up my feelings for this hit. And frankly, if a guy that appreciates the physical side of the game as much as he can says that, for me that's saying a lot. Liambas was not busting his arse. He wasn't finishing his check. He wasn't skating whistle to whistle. He put someone out, probably for life. How is that helping your team? It's sure not helping yourself.

Ask Liambas now if he still thinks he should've gone that hard at Fanelli. I'll bet he disagrees with you and wishes he had've let up a little.

#1807304 OHL Hit

Posted by Doggy on 02 November 2009 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE (Doc Holiday @ November 2, 2009 - 10:37PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know not every player in the OHL moves on from there and plays more competitive hockey.

As a player, I will go for every hit I can make if I know my chances of making the NHL are slim and nil (and especially if I could have the chance to make it but need the extra oomph).

You do make a good point, but are players who probably will never play in the NHL supposed to coddle these young guys simply for development's sake?

I'm looking at it from strictly the league's POV. They certainly need to make sure their players, particularly the underage ones, are well-protected.

Now from a player's POV... I'll tell you one thing with certainty. No NHL club will sign nor draft a junior player for his hitting. If they want to sign a grinder they look for experienced players in the AHL. You don't add grit from the CHL. Finishing your checks is fine, but if you wanna get drafted I suggest you concentrate on your stick-handling, positioning, shooting, face-offs, pokechecking, shot-blocking, stick-lifting, play-reading, skating, passing, conditioning, size, strength, power, vision, poise, teamwork, leadership, etc. This is the s*** junior players should be learning.

Anyone can finish a check like that guy just did. Who can poke-check like Nick, dangle like Datsyuk, deflect like Homer, see the ice like Thornton, shoot like AO, protect the puck like Hank, backhand like Sundin, slap it like Chara, win a draw like Perrault, etc... ?

An 18 year old that thinks making a hit like that will get him on an NHL scouts shortlist is kidding himself. That's not what the CHL is about. At all.

#1807296 OHL Hit

Posted by Doggy on 02 November 2009 - 10:33 PM

QUOTE (Four @ November 2, 2009 - 09:39PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
An excellent post from another forum made by an Otter fan;

QUOTE (E_S_A_D @ November 2, 2009 - 09:45PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A post from another forum from a fan at the game:

Thanks for those posts. This is why I didn't like the hit. It's a 16 year old kid. These guys are trying to improve their game and become great hockey players. They don't need to be fighting or laying hits like this. It's the CHL, not the NHL. They can play tough, but not like this. Particularly when there are 16 year olds out there. The size difference between the average male at 20 and the average male at 16 is huge. Dangerously big, and this demonstrates that.

Furthermore, these guys are still learning and developing their hockey senses. They will make mistakes like Fanelli made. It's just incredibly sad the price he has to pay is so high. It shouldn't have to happen. If the CHL teaches its players to play tough without crossing the fine line into dirty, as well as encourages respect for your opponent it will translate to a new, better type of grit in the NHL.

I'm not saying there is no place for hitting in the game, because there most certainly is. I'm also not saying that the result of this incident was entirely Liambas fault. But the hit was unnecessary.

Let the kids play hockey. Let them learn and develop and become the Ovechkin's, Crosby's and Tavares' we love to watch now. Leave the fighting and huge hits for the mature leagues where they're (usually) fully developed and most importantly, know how to protect themselves.