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freshy

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#2529995 Dont Jump Yet...

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 04 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

And that's why the regular season is the regular season... We beat the Kings too but wouldn't have stood a chance against them in the playoffs, we have a completely hollow defense

So teams don't try in the regular season? Or there level of play in the regular season isn't indicative of their level? So Edmonton could possibly win in the playoffs if they would just make it?

 

I don't buy that the "regular season is the regular season" What is there to back it up? There's always logic behind the discrepancies.

 

We beat the kings in the season because they had some real problems with offence during the season. They worked things out and also brought in Gaborik, which gave them a big boost in the playoffs.

 

We lost so handily to the Bruins in the playoffs because Z and Datsyuk were dealing with significant injuries, our youth disappeared with the playoff pressure due to inexperience, Ericsson injuries forced the Kindl and Lashoff, Weiss injured forced Legwand on the team unsettling the lineup even more since he played himself onto the 4th line.

 

I know, I know, no excuses - but come on - Those factors don't account for the difference between regular season results against the Bruins and playoff results?




#2529857 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 03 July 2014 - 05:53 PM

That's an interesting point. Why don't you think that pairing works? In a sense, Quincey doesn't produce offense so he "must be" a defensive defensemen. Yet he doesn't pair well with Smith because he sucks at being a defensive defenseman. Which kind of made me think.. who actually pairs well with Quincey? In my mind... nobody? Maybe Ericsson... but boy is that D pairing a couple of fat rooted trees. Probably a huge reason why nobody wanted this contract is because he doesn't fit well with anybody. What kind of "role" does KFQ play? He doesn't hit, he doesn't score, he's not overly gifted in his own zone. He just sort of does nothing out there.

 

Just one of those things where 2 players do not mesh. Can't be explained, but sometimes it happens. Quincey is good defensively, it just took him a frustratingly long time to show that. He also put up points a little more consistently once he got over the all around awfulness. Not saying he was scoring a lot, but he chipped in from time to time. My guess he is either paired with Dekeyser or he is on the 3rd pairing while still playing 20 minutes per game.

 

I also still think a trade happens to bring in the puck mover we all wanna see. Keeping Quincey just gives Holland flexibility in making the right deal. Whether that be during the summer, or during the season. In the end, he couldn't go into the season with 2 rookies on defense. And really, who else out there is as solid as Quincey was before returning to Detroit? Sure they could have gotten someone else. But what's to say they wouldn't struggle like Quincey has while adjusting to a new team? He overpaid for less risk. But being just 2 years, it's fine. I'd understand the fury if it were a longer deal at that price. But at 2 years, he isn't hurting the team. He is a capable defenseman. Not the ideal signing, but reliable when you look passed the early struggles. This is not an old man Sammy contract. That contract was far worse. 




#2529476 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by nawein on 02 July 2014 - 12:49 PM

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/funner


You realize that's a link to the word fun right?


#2529434 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by DannyD on 02 July 2014 - 11:51 AM

The blind head in the sand defense in here is astounding.

Fine guys, so you're all pretty much saying if we make the playoffs and lose the same way as this season, you will be happy.

Nice to see how easily satisfied you are.

 

We aren't Cup contenders right now. Signing Niskanen or Boyle wouldn't have changed that at all. They would've helped, but they wouldn't have put us over the top. So yes, I would love to still see us make the playoffs even if we do lose in the 1st round, but give me Pav on two legs...not just one, a healthy Z, and healthy Big E in that series and things might've been a little different. We might not have won but I don't think we would've lost 4-1. Not to mention our kids are getting valuable playoff experience. Sure as hell beats missing the playoffs all together. So what if we get a pick 3-4 picks lower than what we would've had? We aren't tanking. It's not going to happen.  Pardon me if I have realistic expectations.  :confused:




#2529391 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by Son of a Wing on 02 July 2014 - 10:45 AM

 

You're right. Abdelkader, Glendenning, and Miller in rotating top 6 roles has cup written all over it (despite the fact all 3 would barely make the 4th line on most teams). 

 

We have some shining stars and glimmers of bright spots don't get me wrong, but the majority of our roster is an AHL team, plain and simple. Instead of finishing in the middle and possible BARELY squeezing in the playoffs just to get embarrassed, which accomplishes absolutely nothing, why not hope for a bottom finish and look forward to a high pick and org changes?

Now there's something to get excited about. 

 

How are Glendenning and Miller in rotating top 6 roles?? You realize forward depth is one of our strengths right?

 

Just because we didn't land a top defenceman doesn't turn half our roster into an AHL squad....

 

I'm as disappointed as anyone but some of you guys need a serious reality check...




#2529765 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 03 July 2014 - 01:25 PM

Quicney is overpaid, yes. But it is just 2 years. This contract is nowhere near as awful as Samuelsson's a couple years back. Don't care what anyone says. Short contracts always result is being overpaid. Thems the breaks. But if I had to choose between having Quincey come back or Kindl come back, it would be Quincey any day of the damn week. I will not defend how bad he was early in the season. But with how solid he was beyond that, having him back is a lot less of a risk than having 2 rookies playing at the same time in an already young defense. What happens when an injury inevitably happens? Have half the dmen be rookies? 

 

I highly doubt Holland is just sitting on his ass waiting for the season to start. There is no doubt in my mind he is still trying to find that top 4 dman. This signing is just something to fall back on . Not the end of the world in my opinion. The cap hit doesn't even matter. It's not like that money was gonna be spent on a UFA when they already went elsewhere. 

 

For those blaming Quincey single handedly for double digit losses, you're assuming the Wings would have won each of those games he didn't give up a costly turnover. Hardly the case at all, as last season's inexperienced Wings found many other ways to lose games. Like I said before though, I'm not defending how bad he was early on. He was terrible. But once he and Smith were broken up, they both got worlds better. 




#2529367 Dont Jump Yet...

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 02 July 2014 - 09:58 AM

Guys,

 

I am as pissed off as most Red Wings fans today out of our lack of ability to sign (any) big name free agents, and even more pissed off that our only substantial move was re-signing Kyle Quincey to a contract that pays him as much money as Jonathan Ericsson, more money than Johan Franzen and only 0.5 Million less than Nick Kronwall makes (still a top 10 defenceman in the league).

 

But as much as we can complain about Quincey, and predict that next season will be a complete disaster - I am seeing more and more tank for McDavid posts - I ask myself when did Matt Niskanen become worthy of a 7 year contract? Isn't Dan Boyle 37 years old coming off a 36 point season on a great team where he was a -8? Why did the world end when we didn't sign these two? Lets just try to use some perspective before we completely turn our backs...

 

Last season, in a 16 team conference - we finished 1 point behind 6th place PHI and 3 points behind 5th place NYR (who eventually played in the Stanley Cup Final) while having an historically bad (by our standards) record of 5-9 in the shootout. More importantly, we also had our top 3 forwards (when measured by salary) D, Z and Weiss miss 37, 37, and 56 games respectively. I hate to make excuses, but of the 6 teams in our conference that had more points than us last year, not a single one of them could relate to our injury situation (in terms of man games lost to star players). For ex. the top 6 scorers on the Boston Bruins all played in atleast 78 games, and 5 of them played in 80 or more - please don't tell me this would not have helped us or improved our position in the standings.

 

If we look ahead to next season - what do we have to be optimistic about? Well, we haven't really gotten worse since last year... No we haven't signed any big names either, but we still haven't lost anyone yet. (Alfie remains to be seen). Can you say the same about...

 

#1 BOSTON - Subtractions: Thornton, Iginla, Meszaros, Moore. Additions: None.

#2 PITTSBURGH - Subtractions: Jokinen, Vitale, Orpik, Glass, Engelland, Niskanen, Conner. Additions: Comeau, Ehrhoff.

#3 TAMPA BAY - Subtractions: Lindback, Aulie, Desjardins. Additions: Nabokov, Boyle, Blunden, Stralman.

#4 MONTREAL - Subtractions: Briere, Gorges, Vanek, Gionta, Blunden, Dubnyk. Additions: Parenteau, Gilbert, Malholtra.

#5 NEW YORK - Subtractions: Pouliot, Stralman, Richards, Boyle, Bickel. Additions: Hunwick, Glass, Kostka, D. Boyle.

#6 PHILADELPHIA - Subtractions: None. Additions: Jones.

 

The point here is that outside of Tampa Bay, the 5/6 teams that had more points than we did last season have not improved either - and to take it a step further, I certainly feel that Boston, Pittsburgh, Montreal, and the NYR have all regressed. In terms of teams within striking distance who have also improved, NJ and WSH certainly stand alone.

 

When you consider the possibility of a healthy team, the emergence and continued development of our younger players, the cap room and prospect pool we have to acquire pieces (which Holland MUST use at this point) and the lack of improved teams conference wide + number of teams in our division who have taken a step back (BOS, MTL, TOR, OTT,) I don't think the sky is falling as fast as it seems.




#2529293 Can Z and Pav do anything to protest? (not that they would)

Posted by Barrie on 02 July 2014 - 05:51 AM

The Wings will be better. Our young talent is 1 year older and Dats and Z are healthy.

 

Niskanen won't be the same player in Washington. Quincey would get 40 pts playing in Pittsburgh, which is exactly why Ehrhoff signed there, to rack up the pts so he can sign another big contract... I don't think people realize how good Smith and Dekeyser are going to be.

 

The CBA has created an over inflated UFA Market. We didn't miss out on anything yesterday.




#2529255 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by rick zombo on 02 July 2014 - 12:06 AM

But you have to admit, those years were unique for the Wings, and the team that had the most success was primarily a team built before the cap. When they got back to playing, they had the benefit of a salary rollback and they were able to buyout some deals that weren't close to reasonable with a cap and keep the core of the team together. Not only that, you had the unexpected rise of Franzen, who had his most success when he was making very little money. Zetterberg wasn't making star money until 2009 I believe despite being a bonafide superstar; wasn't his deal before his current contract for less than $3 million? I want to say $2.2 or $2.8. Either one was well below the value he brought to the team at the time.

But I'm not really trying to take anything away from him so much as not given him too much credit for actually building a cap team, because I don't think he had to start building a legitimate cap team until 2009. You have to admit, he was lucky to have Franzen breakout while making next to no money, and getting away with paying Z less than $3 million throughout that period was of tremendous benefit. With that kind of luck and those RFA deals, there are likely a lot of GMs who could've done less than Holland had to and still had a tremendous amount of success.

I mean, seriously, despite the salary cap and despite having a ton of talent up front, those lingering RFA deals allowed him to sign Hossa to a big 1 year deal in the summer of 2008. That's no small or ordinary thing, especially with no cap hit trickery from a longer deal to lessen the blow. For the team to be as loaded with talent as they were in the cap era and still be able to pull that off seems utterly laughable now, but again, we were lucky to have those lingering RFA deals and Franzen became a beast seemingly out of nowhere for a couple years.

When tougher decisions started having to be made in 2009, that is when the reality of the salary cap started weighing down on how this team would be built, and it's been all downhill since. Every summer since the summer of 2009, he's been caught flat footed and unprepared. Even he has flat out admitted that at times, earlier on though more than in recent years.

So sure, he had great success early on in the cap era, but how much that success had to do with him having to build a team in the cap era and how much it had to do with pure luck, rollbacks and outlandishly amazing value on some RFA deals is debatable. Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from his success at that time, but I also don't think that era represents Holland's ability to build a true cap era team, and I don't think it serves as justification to continue to give him more chances after five years of him failing to address needs and countless flat out bad signings.

 

This is a good post. 

 

But Holland’s done a respectable job of managing the cap. 

 

Sometimes I think people forget how the NHL works now.

 

You absolutely have to built your team through the draft. I don’t have to tell anyone where Detroit has had the luxury of picking from since 91 do I? Holland’s at an automatic disadvantage. It’s a miracle that Datsyuk and Z were as good as they were or we would have been picking Doughty 2nd overall in 2008, not LA.

 

Victim of his own success. 

 

I can only truly disapprove of Holland’s cap management for one reason. Hossa vs Franzen. Kenny could have kept Hossa and gotten a king’s ransom for Mule after those two back-to-back playoff runs. Who knows? That coveted #1 D man could be our right now via the Franzen trade that never happened. The Bowman’s would have traded his ass. 




#2529093 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by DannyD on 01 July 2014 - 08:03 PM

 

How many players have to pass on Detroit, how many times do we have to be "in the mix" and end up empty handed? Trying isn't good enough anymore. When you miss out on one big name ufa, that's one thing, then a couple years later, not having fixed the problem via trade or free agency, instead using useless plugs a la Quincey, you miss out on a whole lot of big time upgrades? disgraceful, unacceptable... #fireholland

 

Weiss didn't pass, Alfie didn't pass. Datsyuk resigned, Kronwall resigned. What do you want? We can't sign everyone. There are 29 other teams that are trying to get better just like we are. Do you want us to overpay someone just to say we signed them then to be stuck with a horrible cap hit for someone who isn't worth it 4-5 years down the road when we need to resign a bunch of our young guys? 

 

We are building for the next 8-12 years not the next 2. People can't get that through their heads.




#2528915 Quincey re-signed by DET. 2 yr s $4.25 mill AAV

Posted by marcaractac on 01 July 2014 - 06:32 PM

The bottom pairing was the issue. Not Q. Quincey and Dekeyser were actually very solid together. Sure he is overpaid, but it's free agency. Everyone is. People really need to chill. Other UFA's didn't want to come here. Get over it. 




#2516345 ECQF - Game 5 - Red Wings at Bruins - 3:00 PM EST

Posted by CaliforniaWingsFan on 26 April 2014 - 02:29 PM

Must win game. Glad with the effort so far. LOL.




#2512523 ECQF Game 2 GDT : Red Wings 1 at Bruins 4 - Series tied 1-1

Posted by Dabura on 20 April 2014 - 04:01 PM

Or maybe Holland can figure out how to build a team like Boston, instead of taking over a team of Hall of Famers with an unlimited payroll.  

 

We're (likely) gonna go home with a split, all without Zetterberg and Ericsson. We don't need to blow up the team. We need to score a power play goal.




#2512365 ECQF Game 2 GDT : Red Wings 1 at Bruins 4 - Series tied 1-1

Posted by MabusIncarnate on 20 April 2014 - 03:40 PM

Alright boys let's kill this PP and not allow any shorties. 




#2508841 4/11 GDT - Hurricanes 2 at Red Wings 1

Posted by SimonSin on 11 April 2014 - 08:31 PM

Franzen... Lmao! Oh man, this guy.