"They remain in talks with Daniel Cleary and Damien Brunner...Brunner is looking for around $2.5 million...in a multi year deal."
Man, if that's true, there is absolutely no excuse to not sign him. 3, 4, 5 years, its doesn't matter. $2.5M is peanuts, if Brunner doesn't work out and becomes Leino 2.0 he can still be easily traded/bought out because its such a tiny cap hit.
Dammit Kenny, why are you making it so hard to defend you????
I dont want to hear it anymore. Its an assinine argument to discuss millions of dollars and whos worth what.
Proof: We had Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Tootoo, and White RIDING THE FREAKING PINE IN THE PLAYOFFS. That's 8.5 MILLION DOLLARS doing nothing for us. NOTHING. Isn't it obvious NOW that our GM is an imbecil? So let's keep our discussions to "who benefits us more" instead of "what can we afford". Im sorry for the capgeek thread. Thats obviously not a helpful tool, as our buffoon GM only looks for loyalty points and not value.
"5 million is too steep for Lecavalier."
You had White and Sammy on the bench, so how's that?
"6 million is too steep for Horton."
You had White, Sammy, and Tootoo on the bench, so how's that?"
Is there anyone on this planet that believes healthy Bertuzzi/Sammuelsson/White/Tootoo playing in place of Nyquist/Eaves/Colo/Miller gets us by the Ducks and Blackhawks? Hell no.
So we must all come to the logical conclusion - money/salary cap is being poorly utilized. The problem is NOT that we dont have enough.
FIRE HOLLAND. HE STINKS.
You do realise that we have to have a 23 man roster, right? So you do realise that when everyone is healthy we will have 3 guys riding the pine at any time, right? And that those 3 guys are our back-ups in case of injury/loss of form, right?
Of course, we could have 3 guys who were cheaper, buy you do realise that they are likely to be much worse players, right? And that when they have to actually play they'll be worse than what we've got, right?
Or we could put 3 kids on the bench and waste away their development years by not actually playing them, but I'm sure this forum would be OK with that, right?
Its not just the price, its the term that is being asked for by these guys. Its one thing offering a guy like Clarkson a 3 year $18M contract, if he doesn't live up to it, you're not stuck with it for very long. But a 7 year $42M contract? If he reverts back to being a 15 goal scorer, you're stuck with him till 2020!. You can't trade him, cos no-one wants his contract, and you can't bury him in the minors like before.
As I've been saying for a while, there's always a desperate GM ready to make a desperate signing and "over-pay." I'm sure someone out there has already given Flip's agent the nod that he'll give him a ginagerous contract, hence his desire to hit FA.
Holmgren is desperate to keep his job. If Vinny doesn't work out, and Philly are stuck with him, what does Holmgren care? He won't be there, its someone else's problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of our scouts and front office hired from Pre-Holland/Jimmy Devellano days? You know, the guy who personally assembled the team that got us our 1997 and 1998 cups?
Ah, you mean from when Holland was our chief scout? So when he's the chief scout, its the GM who gets the credit. When he's the GM, its the scouts who get the credit. Nice. Tails you win, heads I lose
In other news, KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! is reporting the Wings are only prepared to offer Cleary 2 years.
I will bet ANYONE on here $20 that Philly will win the cup before the Wings do. Making moves, even if a few are bad, is better than doing nothing. And Kenny has basically made ZERO moves for 5 years.
yeah, cos that Philly philosophy of sign every big-name FA, trade for every big name on the trading block, pay them all mega-bucks, then trade/release/buy out a couple of years later has really worked for them, huh? A couple of random trips to the cup finals, and that's it. Throwing players at the wall and seeing who sticks has NOT worked for them.
Meanwhile, its only Pronger being on LTIR that will get them just under the cap and they've only got 1 goalie.
5 years is just too much for Vinny on Detroit. If we'd signed him to this deal we'd have him, Franzen, Dats and Z all in their late 30s at the same time eating a huge chunk of cap space.
I think the thing is, we've spent the last few years drafting "value" in the mid rounds. Value equates to smaller, skilled players. Now we've got a prospect pipeline that's overflowing with smaller, skilled players, so drafting even more smaller, skilled players makes no sense.
For one year, to focus on size + grit is OK, in the future we can go for a more balanced draft. Right now all we've done is given ourselves a more rounded prospect pool.
But one thing to bear in mind guys, chances are that no more than 2 of those 8 players make it to the NHL. If just 3 make it, that would be an amazing draft. Most of these guys are going to end up on the scrapheap.
Remember when Flip was the youth? Remember when he put put up 70 points in GR and everyone was all over Babcock and Holland for not playing him enough? Now he's greedy and one-dimensional and useless
Remember when Hudler was the youth? Remember when he put up 96 points in GR? Remember how everyone was all over Babcock and Holland for not playing him enough? Now he's greedy and one-dimensional and useless and lazy.
Remember when Kopecky was the youth? Remember when he put up 72 points in GR? Remember how everyone was all over Babcock and Holland for not playing him enough? (well, OK, its was just Eva ) Now he's just useless.
Remember when Kronwall was the youth? Remember when he put up 53 points in GR? Remember when he was Nick Jr? Now he's useless and can't defend, and a turnover machine and not a #1 defenceman.
Remember when Smith was the youth? Remember how 12 months ago he was LOCK for the Calder on here? Now he's the most useless defenceman in history, a Frankenstein combination of all the worst parts of Anders Ericsson, Max Kuznetzov, Matthieu Dandenault and Brett Lebda.
Are you spotting the pattern here? When they're in the minors all our prospects are the next coming of Steve Yzerman and Nick Lidstrom on here. Then they get here, and they turn into what the scouts projected (3rd line checker, 2nd line 2-way winger) and not what the LGWers predicted (Pavel Zetterberg), and LGW treats them like they're something they scraped off their shoe.
So good luck Nyquist. Good luck Tatar. Good luck Sheahan, Ferraro and Jurco. You'd better turn into HOFers, otherwise you'll just plain SUCK!
I'm definately in the "trade up" camp. Our prospect pipeline is absolutely jammed at the minute, we don't need to trade down to get more prospects. Use some of that stash to trade up and grab a real impact player.
I still don't get this notion some people have that the organization would benefit from buying out one of its best scorers. Exactly who would replace him?
First - for how many more seasons is Franzen going to be a 25 goal scorer? He's 33 right now. He's got another SEVEN seasons with a $4M cap hit. Once his production starts declining, since he contributes nothing else, how much longer does $4M stay good value for money?
Second - The early retirement penalties that have been brought in are a biatch. No-one expected the likes of Franzen to see out their contracts, now if he retires early, its the Wings who get punished while he sits on his mountains of cash.
Third - I hate the message that Franzen sends to our youngsters. Have a couple of half-decent seasons, sign a mega-bucks lifetime contract and coast your way into retirement
Fourth - As I already mentioned, we've had the best years of Franzen's contract - the years of artificially low cap hit with decent production. The contract is only going to get worse from here on out. If we buy him out after next season, he'll be 34 and we "only" have to pay him $12M for the remainder of his contract.
Fifth - We have lost MUCH worse players than Franzen over the years. Many and more of them, and we've always been OK. We'll survive without Franzen too.
These FAs need to dial back their expectations a bit... with salary cap getting across board reduction it basically equals a salary decrease vs value for all player contracts going forward.
No, you need to realise that mid-tier UFAs are "over-paid" under the CBA structure, and thats the way it is. Quality RFAs are under-paid because of the punitive compensation required for even a small offer sheet (1st and 3rd for $2 to $3M! 4 x 1sts for $5M+ !!!)