Uncle Danny

On Cleary, the fact that he scored on "flukes" wasn't flukey at all.  He was doing exactly what he should be doing: going to the net and being in the right place at the right time.  I'll grant you that his body is breaking down some, however, he is EXACTLY the type of guy I want playing for us right now.  He knows his role, he digs and works harder than anyone else on the ice every single shift, and has been to a few rodeos before... oh, and he's scoring.  Grit, determination, hard work and experience.  That sounds like a playoff warrior to me.  He's playing beyond what his body should allow at this point, showing the kids how it's supposed to be done, and that's beyond admirable.

Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Chris Osgood

One of these things is not like the others...



PS:  Sorry, couldn't resist.  I agree with the rest of your argument.

Gretzky and Lemieux are way above Yzerman on the all time greatest centers list.  

Yzerman was better as a two-way center, but so were Fedorov and Datsyuk.  Would you rank them above Gretzky also?

There quite simply is no way I could fathom voting for anyone in the history of hockey above Gretzky at the center position.  You know why Gretzky isn't known as a great two way player?  Because any coach on the planet would have been a moron to ask him to curtail his scoring.  He didn't have to play great defense because he'd simply outscore the other team.  There is a reason he's known as The Great One.

Just playing out a hypothetical: had he decided that he wanted to play a defense first game, his hockey IQ and vision were such that I have no doubt he'd have been among the very best at it.  As they say, though, you can teach defense, you can't teach scoring... which is what he did better than anyone before or since.

EDIT: Clarity

To the OP, I'm going to parrot what others have already said.  Yzerman was the better Red Wing, Lidstrom the better player.  That said...

10 years before 2 way play by Bowman 1040 points, After Bowman, 12 years 715 points.
Now I'm not arguing that this helped us win our first cup in forever, just that Yzerman unselfishly changed his entire game for this team, and he could have gone on to break records had he decided to not put this team first.

I actually came here to refute this point by saying that Stevie's body broke down in later years, and he no longer would've been able to compete with a purely offensive game.  I still think this is true, and I don't believe he would've lasted 12 more seasons that way.

However...

I took a quick peek at the all time scoring leaders, and it is not unfeasible (hi, double negative!) that he could've taken the number two all time spot if things had gone differently.  Had he even played one more season in the real world, he definitely would've ousted Dionne, and possibly even taken the #4 spot from Francis had he remained healthy (given his numbers from his last two seasons -- 75gp, 55p and 61gp, 34p).


With him only 132 pts behind Messier even with his switch up to two way play, I could honestly have seen him topping every other forward all time save for the Great One.

2 Mark Messier EDM, NYR, VAN, NYR 1756 1887 1.07 3 Gordie Howe DET, HFD 1767 1850 1.05 4 Ron Francis HFD, PIT, CAR, TOR 1731 1798 1.04 5 Marcel Dionne DET, LAK, NYR 1348 1771 1.31 6 Steve Yzerman DET 1514 1755 1.16

...of course then we'd have exactly zero cups, and people would be talking about how he was the best centerman never to win the big one...

This is not at all a knock on Datsyuk, who is my favorite active player hands down by 12 country miles, but Fedorov was better in his prime.  I've heard some say that Datsyuk is a great defensive forward (he is, and the Selkes back it up), that his stickhandling skills are par none (they are) and that he just brings straight up sex appeal to the on ice game (he does as well -- dude is slick).

The thing is, if you can come up with an adjective or description of a good skater in hockey, Fedorov matches that description (to my knowledge, he never played goalie, thus me saying "skater").  Want a power forward?  Check.  Need speed and energy?  Gotcha, boss.  Want a top forward shut down?  Not a problem.  Penalty killed?  P'shaw.  Need someone to dish?  Yeah, we can do that.  Shots from the point?  Snipe?  Check?  Just need me to intimidate the entire other team with how much better I am at the game than all of you?  No sweat.  See you next shift.

The man's double helixes were made of hockey sticks.

Pasha is an incredible talent, and a great role model...but Fedorov was the better hockey player.

I love this signing if only because it means I'll get to say his name a lot more often this season.  Go on, say it with me now: Carlo Colaiacovo, Carlo Colaiacovo, Carlo Colaiacovo.  Fun, isn't it?

How the hell does Shanny get left out but Joe Sack-Lick makes it in?

You must be joking.  Shanny should've definitely made this list... but of all of them, I'd say only Sakic is a no-brainer not to replace.  As others have stated, Sundin is the question mark here.

Bure had more talent, but a career ended short.
Oates was amazing, but never won a cup.

Sakic captained a team that won cups, contended for scoring trophies until very late in his career, defined the word class on the ice and off.  I'm truly shocked at your naming him here.  I'm a Red Wings fan through and through, but if Joe Sakic isn't a first ballotter, I don't know who is.

Best of luck to Brad....except when he's playing Detroit.

Agreed.  I hope no idiots boo him when he comes to town in his new sweater.

Does anyone else stop reading the moment they see "CAPGEEK" in a post?

I'm kind of annoyed because I just got a Zett jersey a few months ago with an "A" on it and I think you are absolutely right here. He's probably gonna be our next captain and my 4 month old jersey is already obsolete like my computer was a week after I got it.

No way, man!  That makes it all the cooler down the road.  I still have my Fedorov jersey with the A on it, and love it as a bit of a rarity.  Shows I was around "back then."  Wear that sucker with pride even after Z takes the C

That's pretty fantastic, no pun intended.  Of course I'd question anyone who took advantage of this promotion, but I still think it's a great idea.  Despite the fact that I hope we freaking destroy you in the playoffs, I have to give a continued hat off to the Preds organization.  You guys do more with less than anyone else in the NHL.  Unless you're playing the red and white, I'm rooting for you.

$9/Gordie Howe Hat Trick (Limit of 1 but x2$ if from Franzen, x3$ from Hudler)

That's fantastic!  I love it!  

I'm in!

EDIT:  Numbers PM'ed to vladdy