1) The Kane on the center or on the wing argument is interesting for starters. It makes me wonder about putting Pav on Hank's wing. Sure, he's the best two-way player in the game. But if we let him play on the wing...and focus all of his energy on offense...it could be just what the doctor ordered. Or even putting Hank on a wing. We've got plenty of guys that could handle the center role defensively.
I often times wonder how our team might produce with it's talent focused on the wings...
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER My Custom Lineup FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m) Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m) Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m) Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Joey MacDonald ($0.550m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,011,212; BONUSES: $247,500 CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,288,788
2) If Stan Bowman wants to leave Chicago because of all of this. Man. I'd do anything to have Scotty back in our organization. The talent in Chicago is still second to none. And it's because of the way Stan/Scotty draft. They've drafted 10x better than us since Scotty left. If Holland continues to dissapoint, Stan Bowman is a candidate for sure.
Stevie-Y's the legend and all...but does that make him a great front office guy?? Couldn't say that I love him more, but let's see how he does in Tampa first. It seems like he's sort of copying the Holland equation out there. Which I'm sick of. And which appears to no longer work.
Go ahead and shoot me, but I think Babcock would make a great GM.
Lidstrom-*Wideman Kronwall-White Ericsson-Quincey Smith
Point #1: First and foremost - seems to be his #1 priority for the off-season as a whole - Babcock said he wants to add more DEPTH to the forward lines. Talked a lot about how the third lines of other teams still in the playoffs (including Nashville against us) are scoring a lot of goals; and how ours was -5 in the series. He singled that third line difference as the biggest reason we lost the series (all the one goal games). He said that Helm would've helped a lot, and that he's one of the best third-line centers in the league; so I guess that we won't be looking to bring someone in and move him to the fourth line.
Point #2: He said that he wants to bring in a top six forward to replace Bertuzzi on the top line and help out Pav. He also said that he doesn't forsee any trades being made; so I guess this will be a free agency signing. It sounds like Parise is the ideal, but he didn't sound overly optimistic about being able to lure him away from his own team, or in being able to beat out the league-wide competition for him (along with Suter). He also talked a lot about the importance of accountability (wrt to Ovechkin), so I'm guessing that Semin won't be considered.
Point #3: He said that he wants to add a defenseman as well. And he talked a lot about the importance of adding another right handed shot to the PP, which makes me think that maybe we aren't targeting Suter? Maybe Wideman instead? He also said that he expects Smith to be on the team...specifying that he'd be in the top 7, not a top six player unless he earned it.
Point #4: He said that he really liked the second line (Huds-Hank-Val) in the series, and that makes me think that we might want to bring Huds back (which might move Bertuzzi to the third line, improving depth). But I think in the end it ends up being unfeasible, and we simply replace him in the lineup with Nyquist.
Point #5: He said that he expects Nyquist to be on the team next year. But him and Smith are it. Mentioned that he's heard Jarnkrok might end up being an elite player though. Mentioned Tatar too, but not much about him.
Point #6: He said that he wants to his non-very skilled (of which Nyquist is one) players to be much bigger. Talked about how that's important in a series. Makes me think that we may be considering replacing Miller or Eaves? I guess Sheahan or Andersson won't be the added size either, as he said he only expects Smith and Nyquist to make the team.
Point #7: Sounds like we'll be bringing in another new #2 goalie. Doesn't trust Joey-Mac's back. This certainly didn't sound like it would be a high-profile signing either...as he'd be competing with Mac for a job in training camp.
FORWARDS Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m) Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Shane Doan ($5.000m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m) Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /
DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m) Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.800m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,992,045; BONUSES: $37,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $7,955
Emmerton, Mursak or Jarnkrok will NOT be replacing Abdelkader anytime soon...sorry, your 3rd line is a pipedream...Plus Abdelkader is far better than Emmerton or Mursak. Other than that, I like your team, but the more Semin gets demoted, the less I like him. Also, too much money for Lidstrom and not enough for Suter or Parise, unless they sign 10 year contracts.
Bottom line is, Lidstrom needs to tell Holland he will take what's left after going HARD after Suter and Parise and offering them the world to finish their career's here...THEN and ONLY THEN should Lidstrom consider re-signing. No way Holland gets EITHER of Parise or Suter if he waits on Lidstrom and then gives him $6.2M ($4.5M is also too much) again...Nick needs to do right by his fans and this team...retire or take the HUGE paycut to insure the teams future as perennial contenders... without Suter and Parise, they won't be.
1) my whole post is a pipedream. none of this crap is going to really happen. we'll roll out the exact same crappy team next season that we have for the last three seasons.
2) what is it about abdelkader that is "better" than anyone else?
3) agree on lidstrom...that's what should happen. but no, we will give him probably 6.0 mil for another season. and give homer another 1.5 so nick has someone to carpool with.
LOL Abby, Eaves and Kindl are just gone like that? Plus, who is going to trade for Cleary and Bert? I'm assuming those are salary dump deals. An entire line of players that has very little NHL experience doesn't seem like something Holland would do. Its fine that you come up with these plans and rosters and lines, but the theme of this is thread is "what would Ken Holland really do?". I don't see him trading Bert, Cleary, Eaves and Kindl and just letting Abdelkader go. I also don't see us signing both Parise AND Suter. One other thing you're not taking into account is that Filppula, White and Howard will all be UFA's next summer. Datsyuk will be a UFA the year after that. If we're signing all these players for multi-year contracts and spending up to the cap, how do we retain these other players going forward? Its not as easy as, "we can mathematically fit them onto our team next year so let's do it". Its unfortunately a lot more difficult than that which is why Holland will have a tough time this summer.
1a) let abby walk. 1b) trade kindl and eaves for whatever prospects/picks you can get...or for absolutely nothing if you can't get anything...or just put them through waivers and let them make their money in grand rapids next year if you have to.
2) exact same deal for cleary and bert.
3) no, holland wouldn't do that. holland won't do anything. he'll just roll out the exact same crappy team again in another desperate attempt to maintain the status quo that's been dwindling since bowman left.
4) lidstrom finally retiring gives us cap space to pay their raises.
You don't ask the 7 time Norris trophy winning captain and face of the franchise to take a HUGE paycut. Maybe he just makes $5.5 this year or $5, but anything less, unless suggested by Lidstrom himself, is insulting. I mean, I understand he didn't have a great year, but he didn't have a great year in 2004 either. Everybody's numbers were down this year and he was no exception. If Lidstrom decides against retirement, Holland needs to give him a Lidstrom worthy contract.
As for being with Suter and Parise, they're not getting both. That's not realistic. As I mentioned in another thread, someone will drastically overpay for Parise and he'll be out of our price range. Suter's a defenseman and defense is really going high the past couple years, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him get out of our range too. For them to come here, we would need them to WANT to be here. If they chase the money, we'll have neither.
Realistic moves by Holland would be signing Scott Hannan, a defensive minded defenseman that helped Calgary's PK this past season. Michal Rozsival, a puck moving defenseman with good hockey sense. Maybe they get Matt Carle from Philly. Dominic Moore, a good two way center with some offensive upside. Sammy Pahlsson or maybe we go after Paul Gaustad since we saw first hand how effective he can be in the playoffs. Maybe they take a chance on Brad Boyes, a former 40 goal scorer, I'd imagine he'd come cheap. These are the types of moves Holland will realistically make. Its not Holland's style, since the cap was put in place, to go after the crown jewels of the free agency class. It IS his style to go after low priced players and get a lot out of them.
boy, isn't that an exciting team with stanley cup potential!!
to hell with lidstrom's mega-millionaire feelings.
i love Lids, but if he does intend on signing for another season he should do the Org a fav and take a big paycut. How would it go down if Lids demands $6m again and we lose out on Suter by not having enough to offer him to come here, after all its a business. I say try and tie up Suter long tem first and then tell Lids this is what we have to play with and can offer you $?m's. Hopefully Nic will help out before any of this came up. I can't imagine us losing out on a guy who could be the cornerstone of the team for the next 10years because we wanted to keep our exsisting one for another season. Just something to think about eh.
unfortunately, that's exactly what's going to happen.
Currently ranked as our 5th best prospect by Hockey's Future (behind Smith, Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco). Born in '91, so 21, and old enough to be considered at this point. He's spent the last two complete seasons in the Swedish Elite League, which is at least somewhat comprable to AHL-level hockey. He's said to be a great play-making center, with outstanding speed (aka defensive ability).
And, most impressively, IMO, he was chosen for the Swedish WC team over Gustav Nyquist...who we all know deserves to be on the team next season.
What are the chances this guy comes over and becomes our third line center next season (moving Helm to a more appropriate fourth line role)?
And while we're at it, what about Tomas Tatar, who will be playing with Marian Hossa and many other high profile NHL-ers on Slovakia's WC team?
I smell a (potential) great third scoring line in Nyquist-Jarnkrok-Tatar as early as next season.
Feel I need to be clear here. The OP is about what I think Holland is going to do. If you want to know what I think he should do...
#1) Players to let go:
-A) Brad Stuart. Sounds like we don't have a choice.
-B) Kyle Quincey. Stupid/sucks that we gave up a 1st rd. pick for him. Not good enough to be worth 3 and a half mil a season.
-C) Jiri Hudler. Not talented enough for the top six. Too expensive for the third line.
-D) Tomas Holmstrom. If I could fit him in I would have.
-E) Justin Abdelkader. Similar situation to Eaves. Would like to have him back, but couldn't squeeze him in.
#2) Players to send down:
-A) Riley Sheahan. Not ready.
#3) Players to trade (for picks, prospects, nothing, whatever...place on waivers and send to GR if necessary):
-A) Dan Cleary. He has no offensive skill, never has, never will. He's a third/fourth line winger. He's not physical. He's losing speed with age and injuries. 2.8 mil is way too much to pay him when a guy like Jan Mursak can give you essentially the same thing for 0.6 mil. Great guy, but this is a business.
-B) Todd Bertuzzi. Not talented enough offensively for our top six. Not talented enough defensively for our bottom six. He doesn't fit in, at any price. Resigning him was a mistake. No need to live with it.
-C) Patrick Eaves. Like him. Good player. Good price. Just didn't fit into my plan. Sorry.
-D) Jakub Kindl. Simply not an NHL-level player.
#4) Players to call up:
-A) Brendan Smith. Ready.
-B) Tomas Tatar. Hopefully ready, need a third scoring line.
-C) Jan Mursak. Fine as a 4th liner.
#5) Players to sign:
-A) Zach Parise. 7.0 mil. No explanation needed.
-B) Ryan Suter. 6.0 mil. No explanation needed.
-C) Nick Lidstrom. 6.0 mil. Hope he takes less, not expecting him to.
-D) Alexander Semin. 5.0 mil. I don't care that he's a *****, our whole team is *******, that's not our style. I don't care if he slacks in the regular season. I just need him to play hard in the playoffs. This team needs guys that can put the puck in the net, period. Semin is one of the top 5 most talented players in the game. I'll take the risk, gladly.
-E) Darren Helm. 1.4 mil. Gave him a 0.5 mil raise.
-F) Chris Conner. 0.5 mil. 13th forward.
-G) Doug Janik. 0.5 mil. 7th defenseman.
It works cap-wise:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Chris Conner ($0.500m) /
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($6.000m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.900m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Doug Janik ($0.500m) /
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,223,712; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $76,288
Hudler re-signs for 5 years, 25 mil. Samuelsson and Kopecky are signed as UFAs. Quincey is re-signed as well. Holmstrom signs for 2 more years. Lidstrom retires. Stuart is gone. Kenny says he loves our depth and that the UFA prices were just way too high. Says he had interest in 4 or 5 players but they were too rich for his blood. Kenny says the Wings are not that far away from winning the Cup as they lost to the Cup champion Nashville Preds. Says he will wait until the trade deadline with all the Cap space available. Deadline will come and Kenny will trade for Ville Leino saying he is the missing piece and they never should have traded him in the first place. Wings lose in the first round to Nashville again. Rinse and repeat.
Ok so this is the nagging voice in my head which I keep trying to block out. I will not mention it anymore!
Here is what Kenny will do...Sign Parise and Suter. Nick comes back. Homer retires and gets a job as Haakan Andersson's assistant as swedish scout. Quincey is traded to the Oilers for a 2nd round pick. Nyquist and Smith make the team. Stuart leaves for Cali. Emmerton is waived and is picked up by Stevie in Tampa. Moen is signed to play with Eaves and Abby on the 4th line.
letting Quincey go doesn't create enough cap space to sign Suter, unfortunately. Not unless Nick takes a huge pay cut. And I'm not sure Suter would want to leave a better team for a worse team anyways.
We love ya Blue, but not another "REALIST" thread. We already have someone telling us how our scenarios are junk and we don't do homework. He was so passionate about how much of a realist he is that he started his own thread. It seems that changes to this team are just all junk to him. He will come in here, pick apart your ideas, call it fantasy, explain why the Wings in it current status is great, Franzenlina is still the best sniper in the league and that nobody can take his place. All the while ignoring the fact that everyone is mentioning Parise, then bringing up Parise like he was the only "realist" to suggest Zach become a Red Wing....
anyhow, I don't think Jokinen will be here, Holland had a chance to get him for nothing last July, I don't know why he would trade for him now. Also, you mention Hudler will be re-signed, but at $3M+ it wold better to let him walk. It would be a mistake if he did re-sign here. Also, if you watched the same Lidstrom we all watched, then you should agree that he needs to retire. If he cannot heal correctly and it affects his game that much, then he is done. No offense to him, not being negative, but we don't need a Lidstrom that isn't even playing like he is a human, let alone super-human...
I also think Cleary and Mursak (if not Emmerton too) should be shopped around. But that is just my opinion and there are some good arguments for trading them and keeping them. Just curious, who are you trading to Carolina for Jokinen? Also, you say Mursak and Emmerton will start in GR, they'd have to pass through waivers to do so, may as well try to get a couple of draft picks for them...
1) Olli Jokinen is an UFA.
2) I agree with a lot of what you say. But it's not about what I think. This thread is about what Red Wings management thinks/will do.
3) wrt Hudler. Same thing. Read the whole thread. I'll rewrite it here now so it's less confusing. But I penciled him as being resigned...then showed that it wasn't possible...then removed him and his cap hit. Apologies for the confusion.
Right now, there's set to be 20.8 mil in cap space.
Step one - Trade Ericsson (+3.3 mil), Cleary (+2.8 mil), Bertuzzi (+2.1 mil) and Kindl (+0.9 mil). Now there's 29.9 mil in cap space.
...I like Ericsson; he's a solid third-pairing defenseman, but I don't think we can afford to pay a third-pairing defenseman that much. I like Cleary too; he's a solid bottom six forward, but I don't think we can afford to pay a bottom six forward that much either. Bertuzzi I don't think fits in; he's not talented enough offensively to play in the top six, and he's not talented enough defensively to play in the bottom six. Kindl I simply don't think is an NHL-level defenseman. It'll be easier to move some of those guys than others. I don't really care what we get back. Picks, prospects, nothing, whatever. If we can't move one of them - I know it's not the "Red Wing Way," but f*** it, we need to win a championship - let them make their money in the AHL.
Step two - Demote Sheahan (+0.9 mil) and promote Smith (-0.9 mil). Now there's 29.9 mil in cap space.
...Not much explanation needed here. I don't think Sheahan is ready to contribute. I do think that Smith is.
Step three - Resign Helm (-1.4 mil), Abdelkader (-1.3 mil), Conner (-0.5 mil) and Janik (-0.5 mil). Now there's 26.2 mil in cap space.
...Not much explanation needed here either. Helm might get a bigger raise than I'm projecting, but it won't be THAT much higher, and it won't kill "the plan" here. Conner I think is good enough to be our 13th forward. Janik I think is good enough to be our 7th defenseman.
Step four - Sign Parise (-7.0 mil), Suter (-7.0 mil), Doan (-5.0 mil) and a "Salei-like" defenseman (-1.5 mil). Now there's 5.7 mil in cap space.
...Really not much explanation needed here either. Three great additions that no one could argue against wanting to have on the team. Some might be harder to sell than others. But I think the - and I hate to say this - Miami-Heat-ness of it is going to be a draw.
Step five - Resign Lidstrom (-5.7 mil).
...That should be more than enough to make him happy, right?
To begin, there's going to be 21.7 mil available in cap space with 16 players on the roster.
...Step one: Trade Ericsson(3.3 mil) and Bertuzzi(2.1 mil). Now there's 27.1 mil available in cap space with 14 players on the roster.
...Step two: Promote Smith (0.9 mil). Now there's 26.2 mil available in cap space with 15 players on the roster.
...Step three: Resign RFA's Helm (1.4 mil) and Abdelkader (1.3 mil). Now there's 23.5 mil available in cap space with 17 players on the roster (I gave both a 0.5 mil raise?).
...Step four: Sign UFA's Parise (7.0 mil), Suter (7.0 mil), Doan (5.0 mil) and a "Salei-like" 6th Defenseman (1.5) mil. Now there's 3.0 mil available in cap space with 21 players on the roster.
...Step five: The remaining 3.0 mil is for Lidstrom. If he NEEDS more than that to come back for one last cup run, then thereís some tinkering that can be done to create some extra cap space. For instance, Abdelkader (1.3 mil), Eaves (1.2 mil) and Kindl (0.9 mil) could be replaced on the roster by Mursak (0.6 mil), Conner (0.5 mil) and Janik (0.5 mil); thatíd clear up 1.8 mil in cap space, making it possible to give Lidstrom 4.8 mil next season. If THATís not enough, maybe you trade Cleary too?
Take a look at this squad:
2012/2013 Detroit Red Wings: (*I doubt the line combos would look like this)